Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #7

[nightpaw]

Yes, well, he evidently did not choose to go into University to advance his knowledge.

I was just pointing out that it is not him who is a telecomms tech. Nor did the police say Sam's attacker had advanced skills.

Just want to keep the facts straight, otherwise we tend to get off kilter with people saying "I read on this thread that he was a telecomms tech". He isn't.

imo

I don’t think universities and qualifications are always relevant in pertaining to knowledge some people just have hobbies outside their careers/trades. For example my brother went to university for a degree completely unrelated to the programming he studies in his own time and he’s pretty good at it he accesses all the material online for free too.
Gen z and millennials are wired different for tech their dna is different I feel, they’ve have the majority of their life with exposure to IT.
Start ups, influencers etc a lot of them are highly successful and skip uni all together.
But yeah not enough info has been released so nothing definitive either way.

 

[Whatson]

Inside the Ballarat mines it's feared Samantha Murphy's body could be

Mine shaft explorer Raymond Shaw believes one of the 5,000 mine shafts hidden beneath Ballarat could be where the Victorian mum's body is lying. See what they look like.

au.news.yahoo.com

 

[jjleroche]

still curious to me that the victim here was so much older than the alleged murderer. Why not a peer?
(US stats- not sure if AUS is the same)
Which age group has the highest rate of victimization?


The NCVS statistics reveal that the rates of violent victimization for 12- to 17-year-olds are substantially higher than the rates for adults, for the most part by a factor of two to three times.
View attachment 490230

Violent Victimization of Youth Versus Adults in the National Crime ...​

found some AUS stats but they are old and include victims/murderers who are known or intimaet partners

https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tandi124.pdf

IMO if the attack was primarily for the purpose of sexual assault, it does seem rather strange.

JMO perhaps this crime was driven by another motive. As, officially, Samantha's remains have not been found, whether or not any sexual assault has occurred is open to conjecture. Even if sexual assault had occurred, this may not have been the primary driver of this crime.

IMO, revenge may have been a motive. (I'm aware that investigators have stated that the alleged perpetrator has no connection to the Murphy family. However, there's a big difference between having a connection with someone, and just knowing who they are (or moving in similar circles).

JMO given that Samantha's daughter Jess was the same age as the alleged perpetrator, and (IIRC) they both attended private colleges, (which often pair up for functions) it's quite possible that they each knew who the other was. I have been wondering if perhaps Jess knew/moved in the same circles as the alleged perpetrator's girlfriend.

Having been born and raised in a major regional city, I have observed the "knowing who they are" thing frequently.
(At one of my workplaces (approximately 40 employees) it was a running joke that every one of us had either attended school with fellow employees, or one of their siblings. There was no-one there who we didn't know. FWIW

 

[Whatson]

It's quite concerning that the case I mentioned earlier about a body being disposed of in a mine shaft is in the same town.

There's no way the accused would not have read about this story at some point, and perhaps they are holding out for a reduced charge of manslaughter by remaining silent.

Interestingly enough, the accused of that previous case, had assistance from a friend to dispose of the body down the mine shaft... and walked free (*edit - after time served and a guilty plea?)

Man who helped dump body of Ballarat mum in mineshaft walks free

Brendon Prestage was driven by a sense of misguided loyalty when he helped conceal the body of Ballarat mother of four Kobie Parfitt in plastic, and drove her remains to a mineshaft outside Ballarat in April 2020.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Deleted member 340727]

It's quite concerning that the case I mentioned earlier about a body being disposed of in a mine shaft is in the same town.

There's no way the accused would not have read about this story at some point, and perhaps they are holding out for a reduced charge of manslaughter by remaining silent.

Interestingly enough, the accused of that previous case, had assistance from a friend to dispose of the body down the mine shaft... and walked free (*edit - after time served and a guilty plea?)

Man who helped dump body of Ballarat mum in mineshaft walks free

Brendon Prestage was driven by a sense of misguided loyalty when he helped conceal the body of Ballarat mother of four Kobie Parfitt in plastic, and drove her remains to a mineshaft outside Ballarat in April 2020.

www.theage.com.au

Thank you Whatson for posting this. It shows that it is never too late for anyone with any information about SM to come forward with whatever information they have in assisting with this crime. The sooner the better for them.

 

[Deleted member 340727]

I think for sure Sam will be in some place with familiarity to him.

The police enacted three search warrants when they arrested the accused. I guess one would have been for his vehicle, seeing that they seized it.

imo

I totally agree with everything you have stated. I suspect the alleged perp. knows the setting very well. MOO

 

[Dotta]

But would he allegedly conceal the victim in a place with ties to himself?

There are many dams/ponds/lakes in the area.
There is a river.

By the way,
I checked this Ristevsky case and learnt he was given only 11 years for manslaughter !!!

 

[Warshawski]

It seems the electrical business did data and electrical including commercial sites and are based in Mt Clear. The business itself doesn’t seem to have a large media presence/website/Abr registration history so I would think they would have difficulty getting into the tendering process for the likes of the telecom tower or treatment plant

I’ve been wondering about Data & Electrical work (I recall a mention of telecommunications business early on, imo). They may perhaps subcontract to another company.

I’m just thinking about what might regulatory put him in that area, as I think he’s been quite familiar with Sam’s running pattern. He may even have communicated with her. I can imagine there may’ve been various people that Sam encountered over her paths, possibly waved to, exchanged a few words with - but I don’t necessarily think she would have gone back home & talked about these exchanges, as they don’t fall under ‘people she / they knew’.

I just can’t figure out what drove him to do this, as police have labeled it a ‘deliberate attack’, which is so horrible to think about.

All just MO

 

[Whatson]

But would he allegedly conceal the victim in a place with ties to himself?

There are many dams/ponds/lakes in the area.
There is a river.

By the way,
I checked this Ristevsky case and learnt he was given only 11 years for manslaughter !!!

In my opinion, bodies tend to be found alot sooner when disposed that way.

 

[Rocket333]

IMO if the attack was primarily for the purpose of sexual assault, it does seem rather strange.

JMO perhaps this crime was driven by another motive. As, officially, Samantha's remains have not been found, whether or not any sexual assault has occurred is open to conjecture. Even if sexual assault had occurred, this may not have been the primary driver of this crime.

IMO, revenge may have been a motive. (I'm aware that investigators have stated that the alleged perpetrator has no connection to the Murphy family. However, there's a big difference between having a connection with someone, and just knowing who they are (or moving in similar circles).

JMO given that Samantha's daughter Jess was the same age as the alleged perpetrator, and (IIRC) they both attended private colleges, (which often pair up for functions) it's quite possible that they each knew who the other was. I have been wondering if perhaps Jess knew/moved in the same circles as the alleged perpetrator's girlfriend.

Having been born and raised in a major regional city, I have observed the "knowing who they are" thing frequently.
(At one of my workplaces (approximately 40 employees) it was a running joke that every one of us had either attended school with fellow employees, or one of their siblings. There was no-one there who we didn't know. FWIW

I’m reminded of Adrian Bayley’s apparent argument with his girlfriend prior to him killing Jill Meagher.

“Police say he admitted in a 10-hour interview to raping and strangling Ms Meagher, claiming it was because of the argument he had with his girlfriend earlier in the night, and that he had an "angry and aggressive demeanour which he transferred onto the deceased".

Adrian Bayley | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Adrian Ernest Bayley was sentenced to life in prison with a 35 year non-parole period in Australia on June 20, 2013 for the rape and murder of Jill Meagher, 29.

murderpedia.org

 

[Deleted member 340727]

I wonder if SM is somewhere that could cause problems for others if it becomes known? For example, if she is on the property of someone close to the accused, and the accused doesn’t want to tell where she is due to the damage or distress it’ll cause.

This is a probable situation all round. What was the condition of the relationship between the alleged perp. and gf.? MOO

 

[Toowong(s)]

It's quite concerning that the case I mentioned earlier about a body being disposed of in a mine shaft is in the same town.

There's no way the accused would not have read about this story at some point, and perhaps they are holding out for a reduced charge of manslaughter by remaining silent.

Interestingly enough, the accused of that previous case, had assistance from a friend to dispose of the body down the mine shaft... and walked free (*edit - after time served and a guilty plea?)

Man who helped dump body of Ballarat mum in mineshaft walks free

Brendon Prestage was driven by a sense of misguided loyalty when he helped conceal the body of Ballarat mother of four Kobie Parfitt in plastic, and drove her remains to a mineshaft outside Ballarat in April 2020.

www.theage.com.au

Hi Whatson, I’m glad you raised this - I posted a few links to this case on thread 2 or 3, when SM was first missing - wondering at the time if there were any links between this and SMs disappearance, some sort of copy cat perhaps. Certainly potential parallels, an accomplice was identified as the one who hid the body due to phone pings, leading police to the body in the mineshaft.

Another sleuther linked another very concerning case involving a Ballarat mine shaft:

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/rapist-shows-no-remorse-for-string-of-violent-sexual-attacks/news-story/29b1c8954abf55a5846561ab422eeca2

Probably drifting off topic but certainly I think anyone growing up in Ballarat and thinking of devious things would be aware of the potential of the myriad of old mines for concealing crimes.

Edit to add:

This extract from that historic case was interesting:

Police interviewed his housemates and discovered he had fantasised about imprisoning a woman in a cave.

It made me wonder if SM murder accused had confessed any interesting fantasies to anyone in the past, which may have been brought to police attention in recent weeks.

 

[OptimusLime]

still curious to me that the victim here was so much older than the alleged murderer. Why not a peer?
(US stats- not sure if AUS is the same)
Which age group has the highest rate of victimization?


The NCVS statistics reveal that the rates of violent victimization for 12- to 17-year-olds are substantially higher than the rates for adults, for the most part by a factor of two to three times.
View attachment 490230

Violent Victimization of Youth Versus Adults in the National Crime ...​

found some AUS stats but they are old and include victims/murderers who are known or intimaet partners

https://www.aic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-05/tandi124.pdf

I briefly perused the text, however, it's from 1999.
I'll try and see if I can find an updated one. Editing- the stats are still very high in the age range mentioned:

"the most common age at incident was between 10 and 17 years"


Notably, last year was the worst SA in Australia in three decades.
I'd like to find the stats of femicide by perpetrator not known to females, with SA.
I don't think SMs age and other victim's of femicide where perpetrator is not an intimate partner or family member is not necessarily irrelevant, but trying to figure out how to say this- age may not be the predisposing factor- control, etc.
I've included another link- I follow Sherele Moody on FB. She documents ALL femicide violence in Australia. The example I used was a 90 yo raped and died as a result of injury.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1729288956796432721

Recorded Crime - Victims, 2022

National statistics about victims of a range of personal, household and family and domestic violence offences as recorded by police.

www.abs.gov.au

 

[Deleted member 340727]

I’m reminded of Adrian Bayley’s apparent argument with his girlfriend prior to him killing Jill Meagher.

“Police say he admitted in a 10-hour interview to raping and strangling Ms Meagher, claiming it was because of the argument he had with his girlfriend earlier in the night, and that he had an "angry and aggressive demeanour which he transferred onto the deceased".

Adrian Bayley | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

Adrian Ernest Bayley was sentenced to life in prison with a 35 year non-parole period in Australia on June 20, 2013 for the rape and murder of Jill Meagher, 29.

murderpedia.org

In this case example: suspected psychological trauma transposed onto the victim.

 

[nightpaw]

IMO if the attack was primarily for the purpose of sexual assault, it does seem rather strange.

JMO perhaps this crime was driven by another motive. As, officially, Samantha's remains have not been found, whether or not any sexual assault has occurred is open to conjecture. Even if sexual assault had occurred, this may not have been the primary driver of this crime.

IMO, revenge may have been a motive. (I'm aware that investigators have stated that the alleged perpetrator has no connection to the Murphy family. However, there's a big difference between having a connection with someone, and just knowing who they are (or moving in similar circles).

JMO given that Samantha's daughter Jess was the same age as the alleged perpetrator, and (IIRC) they both attended private colleges, (which often pair up for functions) it's quite possible that they each knew who the other was. I have been wondering if perhaps Jess knew/moved in the same circles as the alleged perpetrator's girlfriend.

Having been born and raised in a major regional city, I have observed the "knowing who they are" thing frequently.
(At one of my workplaces (approximately 40 employees) it was a running joke that every one of us had either attended school with fellow employees, or one of their siblings. There was no-one there who we didn't know. FWIW

Do you mean a revenge retaliation that the accused committed on behalf of his GF directed towards SMs daughter that was initially meant as a scare prank but became out of hand??
The comments by police in regards to the knowledge of both parties to each other did sound ambiguous…

 

[ProfCluezo]

I wonder if SM is somewhere that could cause problems for others if it becomes known? For example, if she is on the property of someone close to the accused, and the accused doesn’t want to tell where she is due to the damage or distress it’ll cause.

This may sound cold-hearted of me, but given the accused’s alleged actions, I am not getting a sense of him being someone that would be “thoughtful” enough to consider the impact of his actions on others. If he had the capacity for empathy I doubt he would have committed the alleged murder to begin with. Further to the same, I suspect if he had empathy he would not have stayed silent for five weeks, and watched on as MM bore the brunt of speculation Re SM’s “disappearance”. I may be wrong, but my sense is the alleged offender is focused primarily on gratification of his own needs, at the expense of others. Whatever kinds of relationships he has had in his life, I suspect have most likely been based on projection of a “false self” that has concealed his true nature. I hope I am wrong, but I very much doubt that the accused is thinking of anyone other than himself in remaining silent. Perhaps silence is the only remaining “card” he has left to play…. If he feels he can’t “make it” sufficiently in life in socially acceptable ways, perhaps he is trying to gain notoriety through fear and intrigue?!! All completely speculatory of course…JMO… MOO…

 

[Trooper]

In this case example: suspected psychological trauma transposed onto the victim.

people who get charged and subsequently found guilty of a hideous murder are inclined to say anything that may deflect from their real motive. In this case, you can see how he sneakily shifts some blame onto his 'girlfriend' for continuing an argument, thereby causing him to feel somewhat angry and resentful , and having the good luck to find some woman, walking alone , to murder, and so cure his problem.. ....

 

[nightpaw]

Does anyone have any further details on the accused lawyer requesting the suppression order on the grounds of the accused might self harm because of arrest?? I can’t find the article but I vaguely remember something to this effect??
Self harm is pretty drastic in regards to the beginning of the arrest. And due to his age this would not necessarily mean that he would not get paroled after serving some time. Does this hint at the real severity of the accused actions ??
Charges can often be downgraded and I’m sure the lawyer would have explained that. So why would self harm immediately be considered by the accused? Even without a body? Does VICPOL have much more evidence than they specified??

 

[Dotta]

Does anyone have any further details on the accused lawyer requesting the suppression order on the grounds of the accused might self harm because of arrest?? I can’t find the article but I vaguely remember something to this effect??
Self harm is pretty drastic in regards to the beginning of the arrest. And due to his age this would not necessarily mean that he would not get paroled after serving some time. Does this hint at the real severity of the accused actions ??
Charges can often be downgraded and I’m sure the lawyer would have explained that. So why would self harm immediately be considered by the accused? Even without a body? Does VICPOL have much more evidence than they specified??

"Self harm" later morphed into "protecting father's identity as a football star".

 

[nightpaw]

people who get charged and subsequently found guilty of a hideous murder are inclined to say anything that may deflect from their real motive. In this case, you can see how he sneakily shifts some blame onto his 'girlfriend' for continuing an argument, thereby causing him to feel somewhat angry and resentful , and having the good luck to find some woman, walking alone , to murder, and so cure his problem.. ....

Great posts!
I read someone say that “evil in itself is not powerful it is in essence weak and chaotic, the only power it has is our collective fear of it”..
seems like as you mentioned above, often those convicted of committing awful crimes are so internally weak that they cannot even admit it to themselves, it’s all outward and at the expense of others.