2008.10.14 - Casey's statement to police AFTER indicted

[NocturnalLady]

(bbm) I think you are correct , it is both uncontrollable, and self soothing when she feels awkward, incomfortable or unable to control the environment. It's an almost animal response to being "confined", suppressed, or restricted. having to sit where she is sitting, either in her interview or the courtroom, she isn't free to exit, thus the self soothing gestures. Its a way of calming herself, making her agitation less intrusive. Sort of like rubbing your temples when you have a headache, this is her only means of over-riding whatever the discomfort is.

and for the record, her fidgeting drives me nuts. I yell at the tv, "SIT STILL".

Drives me crazy too. If I were her lawyer I would spend a huge amount of time teaching her to sit still. Her fidgets just give too much away.

 

[aafromaa]

Not making sense to me.................I think the "if" is very telling here....like a hypothetical If I'm not guilty then this is the strategy I would employ (or so JB tells me).

I think with the "if I'm innocent" comment that KC was trying to say she was willing to talk to LE about things that would point to her being innocent but that she wasn't going to answer other questions they might have like who Caylee's father was or what she was doing for over 2 years when everyone thought she was working or a host of other questions that in her mind (& JB's) wasn't any of their business. But she worded it so poorly and when she heard the words "if I'm innocent" coming out of her own mouth she realized it was a freudian slip and lost her train of thought too.

What I found most interesting in this being aired on NG last night (or night before) was that I hadn't realized that they had detoured to an interrogation room instead of the jail because KC had told them she was willing to talk to them while they were in the car but wanted her attorney present. Nor had I realized that once JB finally got there and she met with him, she refused to even hear their questions let alone answer them and that JB instructed them to take her directly to jail and ended the interview. I had always wondered why we didn't have more q & a after this arrest and had always concluded that KC had refused to answer questions but I didn't realize that she was going to sit down with them and JB until he got there and told her not to.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I think with the "if I'm innocent" comment that KC was trying to say she was willing to talk to LE about things that would point to her being innocent but that she wasn't going to answer other questions they might have like who Caylee's father was or what she was doing for over 2 years when everyone thought she was working or a host of other questions that in her mind (& JB's) wasn't any of their business. But she worded it so poorly and when she heard the words "if I'm innocent" coming out of her own mouth she realized it was a freudian slip and lost her train of thought too.

What I found most interesting in this being aired on NG last night (or night before) was that I hadn't realized that they had detoured to an interrogation room instead of the jail because KC had told them she was willing to talk to them while they were in the car but wanted her attorney present. Nor had I realized that once JB finally got there and she met with him, she refused to even hear their questions let alone answer them and that JB instructed them to take her directly to jail and ended the interview. I had always wondered why we didn't have more q & a after this arrest and had always concluded that KC had refused to answer questions but I didn't realize that she was going to sit down with them and JB until he got there and told her not to.

Yes but I think that Casey's display of willingness to talk was just that - a display. They were well aware by that time that everything would be taped and released to the public. Casey made a show of saying she would love to co-operate but then Jose played the bad guy and shut it down. That was all staged - IMHO - to make Casey look like she was trying to be helpful but couldn't because her lawyer wouldn't let her speak since the big bad police were charging her.

 

[panthera]

I watched the video on NG last night for the first time (except of bits and snips), and I thought the FBI guy was sent in because he was good looking (IMHO). It was so obvious to me that KC thinks she "wows" any guy she is talking to with her "charm and good looks". She is used to getting her way.
I was also suprised that (the way I took it anyway) LE tried to convey to her that they had, in fact, tried to put together a meeting with KC and her clown lawyer, but that Baez rejected it everytime. So obvious that he is represent KC for his own benefit, not the other way around.
It was also obvious to me that KC is a sociopath. Her affect is the same as BTK killer that I watched earlier on JVM. Flat, no emotion. The only thing she has added is her smiling, coyish, eyelash batting crap because it has gotten her whatever she wanted before.
She makes me sick.

I'd also watched JVM last night and saw that part (again) with Rader describing his horrific crimes in a most flat affect. I see the same thing with Casey also. In this video Nancy showed, she seems more preoccupied with her appearance and trying to impress the detectives than she is with why she's in the interrogation room ~ charged with murder. MOO

 

[panthera]

Drives me crazy too. If I were her lawyer I would spend a huge amount of time teaching her to sit still. Her fidgets just give too much away.

She does the same thing in court also. Some people just can't sit still and I think she's one of them. I didn't interpret it as nervous but just a habit like her mother has with chewing gum constantly. MOO

 

[noonie]

It is like she put's herself in another place by fixing her hair, nails, picking at her clothes, pulling up her socks and looking around for the camera just to keep her mind busy. Nervious Wreck! Must get that from her cud chewing mom! Ugh. What a sorry bunch. Imagin living in that household? Poor Caylee!

 

[trafficsUP66]

It is so difficult for me too see this adult woman (KC) displaying any fear on the day of the indictment, leading up to arrest, ride with LE, and as we've seen in the video conferance room. It appeared to me that her only possible fear was keeping up with the LE Agent who was using the same type of word placement fencing as KC was delivering to him. I saw a true battle of minds sitting at that conferance room table. After trying to win over the Corporal FBI agent playing to his emotional side of being the only one who has been forthright since day one, KC found out that she could make no gains with her te to te verbal sparring. KC seemed to accept after explaing her version of "the end of the hallway" that she had hit a brick wall and no matter how many times she tried to insinuate there are two doors that could be opened the agent wasn't going to take the bait. LE desciption of "We've eached the end of the hall", did not include two doors that could be opened. Thats when LE agent told her that was before this day of the indicment and there is no longer 2 doors at the end of the hallway. I saw no fear panic or paranoid behavior resignating out of KC at anytime that day. My husband and I felt we were watching a woman showing no intimidation with an oler man who is LE. We both agreed that a woman appearing so calm while waiting to aviod questions, points to a woman who has been around the block when it pertains to men and was not phased by any male, let alone the one male in authority who was holding his own in KC's word play game.

ITA!

She was so pleased with herself and the '2 doors at the end of the hallway' analagy..... she was using her hands for emphasis, lolol!

It was at that point I realized that she was playing this guy to no avail. He makes it clear those doors are now closed, by her own doing and that there is no longer any 'out' door #1 or door #2........ that she's at the end of the 'hallway' and no amount of head games or blame tactics are going to re-open ANY doors for her now!

Do you think they didn't realize she was playing the same game as she has all along with the business of 'me & my attorney have "entertained" speaking with LE from the very beginning, they just never responded' garbage?

She wouldn't even say it herself....... let JB do it for her!

I've heard this tape can be shown to the jury to show her demeanor and lack of concern for her own 'missing' 2 yr old daughter. Her denial of real evidence that brought her a GJ indictment for murder vs her 'maternal' feelings that her daughter is alive (yet remains unwilling to help these investigator's) is the truest testament to who CMA is and how she thinks. JMHO!

 

[trafficsUP66]

I would love to see KC's interaction with a woman LE/FBI. I would have loved to have a shot at her.

I thought this would have been a good way to go from day 2 of this investigation........ would have thrown her off her game totally, imo!

 

[Ripley007]

Though I agree she doesn't show fear (I think she feels fear differently than we do too) like you or I would- I see her hand rubbing, clothes pulling etc. as signs of her dis-ease (not disease) which for us would be felt and shown as fear. This girl has had a long time to perfect how she copes with her feelings, she comes from a messed up home, has apparently been invalidated her entire life. It is not uncommon for people who come from homes like this to learn to supress their feelings.. at the very least, they learn to stop showing how they feel. And they can become quite good at blocking their feelings too.

Watching her in court that last time I was like WOW at how much she kept touching on herself. The lady lawyer must have told her to stop fidgeting because at one point Casey's hand was going back up to her hair and shirt so she could do her thing and the lawyer looked over at her.. Casey didn't let on that she saw the lawyer looking but she stopped her hand mid-motion and brought it back down and placed it on the table (it may have been in her lap, it's been awhile since I saw the video).

I don't think Casey's got control over the touching, I think it's how she's soothing herself when she has unpleasent feelings. I'm not sticking up for the girl, I hope you know that. I agree with you- she's got issues, big time issues, but I do think she feels, just not in the same manner we do.

ITA that her CONSTANT touching herself and fidgeting is her coping mechanisim. A self-soothing device. The basis of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Bet she was counting the tiles on the ceiling, walls, and floor too...All this physical activity kept her from talking aloud to herself while alone in the holding room. Too bad!

 

[magic-cat]

Ah but if you were 22 years old and your lawyer (the only one who listens to a word you say) told you to keep your mouth shut and not say a word as LE was only laying a trap for you..would you really sob and ask for help and scream that you didn't do it.. whatever it was. I think there is a misconception about the FBI's point of view and the public. They are hoping she will slip up and say something that can be used against her. They are great interviewers. I think they did a great job with CA and GA. Neither one could shut up long enough for a question half the time.
BTW I have no experience with being interviewed by the FBi, but I do have lawyers in the family. (and I am as old as dirt)

Even if that were the case, I would KNOW that I did nothing and I would be hysterical worried for my child. I would sob and cry and beg and plead, and my lawyer would just have to accept that since I would be innocent and pleading for the very life of my child. No matter whom the interviewer they cannot trip you up if you are telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I would do just that and my honest and heartfelt torment would be obvious and apparent. The Anthony family, and that includes Casey, somehow believes that there are various "versions" of what is the truth. I disagree. I believe there is truth, and anything that is a "version" is a lie and not the truth at all. If I did not harm my child, and my child had been kidnapped, there is no law enforecement officer, judge, or attorney, heck, there is no human or force on earth that would keep me silent. And the thing is, when you are telling the truth, you don't "slip up", and the truth is not a slippery slope-UNLESS the truth is that you DID harm your baby and you are making every effort to hide that fact from everyone. I too was a very young mother, younger than Casey actually, and my firstborn, given to me when I was seventeen and one day old, is alive and well and living a productive life of his own now. Young or old, if my child was missing and kidnapped from me, I would shout that to the mountaintops and volunteer for a whatever process that would clear ME so that they could get on with the business of finding my sweet baby. (I'm not as old as the hills, but I am no spring chicken either...).

 

[Just Jayla]

I would love to see KC's interaction with a woman LE/FBI. I would have loved to have a shot at her.

Excellent idea, Mama.....someone she does not feel she can manipulate, someone calm yet intimidating-A real ADULT, MATURE woman who will NOT go away, who she cannot avoid. Maybe a Dr. Laura-type, no guff.
I'm afraid though, Mama, it might take sending your Polary bear down for a visit to get her to crack at this point.

 

[claudicici]

...i don't think it would matter,she would just play another part...the murder of her baby is not a reality to her....

 

[magic-cat]

...i don't think it would matter,she would just play another part...the murder of her baby is not a reality to her....

I think you are probably right. She has probably told her own self the lies for so long and with such intensity that she has actually convinced her own self that she is telling the truth.

If she were innocent, this whole thing would have played out so differently I believe. If I am innocent says to me-this is the lie I am telling you and my own self and no matter what comes, I am sticking to this, because IF I am innocent, then I do not have to face the demons that chase me in my sleep and in the dark recesses of my mind...If I am innocent then the horrific crime that I committed against my child is just a dream and did not REALLY happen. If I am innocent, then perhaps I can live to see the outside of this cell again. If I am innocent then this will all end favorably for me...

The only catch is...

She is NOT innocent. Innocent people do not lie and lead LE on wild goose chases when their childs life hangs in the balance.

 

[lin]

bolded by me

You and me both Magic Cat. BUT we do hear and hopefully will get to see, how she reacts when her baby is FOUND. And she knew it was her baby, because they found her exactly where Casey placed her. Casey was fallling apart, hyperventilating, a nervous wreck. Those are all the things she should have been doing when she realized Caylee had been "kidnapped". No normal range of human emotions for Casey. The old "everybody grieves differently" line is about frazzled out on this case.

You may be right and probably are right but I've wondered if ole' KC didn't overplay her hand with a bit of over-acting there.

I often forget that KC just isn't like the rest of us and that I'll always be wrong if I try to ascribe normal reactions to her behavior or think about how I would act. That dramatic reaction just doesn't fit with everything else we know about her.

The girl is indicted for murdering her own child and ---- nothing. I wonder if KC didn't have a big scenario planned out in her devious little mind of how to act as if she were grieving for her child and then mistakenly put on her show a couple of weeks early. Yes, she knew it was Caylee but she wasn't supposed to know yet. The tape will be interesting. JB asked for tissues and from the back it appeared she was sobbing; I imagine heaving shoulders and all but I have to wonder... what did she look like from the front?

 

[lin]

Not making sense to me.................I think the "if" is very telling here....like a hypothetical If I'm not guilty then this is the strategy I would employ (or so JB tells me).

I took it more like she was trying to speak in the third person, ("objectively"), and failed. As has been pointed out by other posters, it is a grating habit shared by the A's: Trying to sound so educated and informed but succeeding only in making oneself appear even less intelligent. There was a comedian that made a living mangling the English language. They often remind me of him for some reason.

 

[lin]

I would love to see KC's interaction with a woman LE/FBI. I would have loved to have a shot at her.

I'd pay to see that.

 

[NocturnalLady]

ITA that her CONSTANT touching herself and fidgeting is her coping mechanisim. A self-soothing device. The basis of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. Bet she was counting the tiles on the ceiling, walls, and floor too...All this physical activity kept her from talking aloud to herself while alone in the holding room. Too bad!

The OCD thing is an interesting idea. Do you notice any patterns, repetitions, etc to the fidgets? Any other evidence of OCD? She didn't seem to have obsessions that I can think of...

 

[lin]

Her affect is not "flat". Flat affect is a "severe reduction in emotional expressiveness." I don't think she is a sociopath, although she may display some traits. A sociopath doesn't play at being a sociopath, they simply ARE a sociopath.

This is a person intentionally playing a part. Her coquettish nature and apparent disregard for the gravity of her situation reminds me of a Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis. These types "play" with people's heads as a matter of course, but when someone doesn't agree with them or sets limits, they often fly into a blind rage. Afterwards, they sincerely believe it was the other person's fault. In other words, they never own their own inappropriate behavior.

BPD's are generally known for creating havoc around them in some way, I call them the 'eye of the hurricane'. High functioning BPD's are especially yucky to be around because they are manipulators, liars and often thieves. They are adroit at telling you what you want to hear while they slip the knife in from behind. You know the type, your gut tells you something is very wrong, but you can't always suss it out immediately. Moral: Listen to your gut! IMO, Casey is definitely a high functioning BPD and I believe CA is the same.

I agree with the BPD along with strong anti-social personality and malignant narcissistic personality disorders with both KC and CA.

 

[lin]

Bold is mine
ohh- daamn woman, me too.. me too!!

I'd pay for that too. A double feature would be terrific!

 

[trafficsUP66]

I took it more like she was trying to speak in the third person, ("objectively"), and failed. As has been pointed out by other posters, it is a grating habit shared by the A's: Trying to sound so educated and informed but succeeding only in making oneself appear even less intelligent. There was a comedian that made a living mangling the English language. They often remind me of him for some reason.

"If LE wanted to speak with myself........."

Much like.........."if I am innocent......."

And "Oh, I KNOW"........upon answering ?'s when none of what she has said makes any sense whatsoever BUT it's like she's thinking "I'm going to go right on and tell you the same things AGAIN even tho you've proved my every lie AND I've agreed with you that they are lies" and on she goes........

Also, imo not one of the A's have 2 sided conversations!