POI - Dale Golder - #1

[TakeNote]

This area across from the Golder property is very heavily wooded with what looks to be logging roads. I've mapped 3.3 miles into the woods. Do y'all think anyone would have heard her scream from that deep into the woods?http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...517,-123.293552&spn=0.01369,0.038581&t=h&z=15

not if he taped her mouth...tied her up? could have done that in the car....it is interesting that there was a comment about how his doors did work....could he have done that....so it would be harder for her to get out?

 

[christine2448]

FYI- Y'all can always meet up REAL TIME in WS chat..

The chat room is open if anyone is interested in chatting about this case! Come in anytime you all want to talk real time! Open even if a mod is not present--just behave ok?

 

[scandi]

I'm thinking that Lindsey might have gone with Golder willingly. I'm pretty sure they know each other from the Beehive. The affidavit stated that many employees and residents at Beehive knew Lindsey. I'm thinking maybe he told her she could drive his car but they'd have to go out to the dirt roads or an out of the way place so she wouldn't get caught driving. Maybe he offered to teach her to drive or maybe he just offered her a ride home to get her in the car. But if he offered her a ride and went in another direction other than her home I think she might have tried to jump out of the car. So the telling her he would take her somewhere safe to drive would have bought him enough time to at least get on the highway and up to a speed that would make it less likely she would jump out or fight him.
I think once he got her to a secluded location her did the unthinkable. I'm thinking the location would have had to be secluded because I'm sure she screamed and fought him. Now we just have to find that secluded area.
Looking at black lake it appears to have lakeside homes all around it. The camp area though appears to be heavily wooded yet not necessarily secluded.
I'm thinking he would have gone somewhere that would not be associated with him. Not close to his home or jobs. Somewhere very secluded where screaming after 10:00pm would not be noticed.
Any ideas where that would be?

Did we ever read much about the private dog search for Lindsey? I can't remember his name, but I have read that one place his cadaver dog alerted was on or off a logging road that somehow takes off of Beck St which is in the NE part of McCleary.



I just looked at a map {wish I could drive it}, and do see a road that takes off of Beck heading north and then bends to the east a bit. It Y's with another road and goes until it just dead ends.

I don't think there is much out there besides trees and a few small wild animals. I think screams would be muffled by all the branches. And so close to town the road would most likely be easy for even a low rider to travel.

There is another thought I have about a gun. In the SW there was so much spelled out for the search of gun stuff. Maybe it was standard verbiage. But it made me wonder if someone reported hearing gunshots that night! I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilitiy. xox

 

[nursebeeme]

This area across from the Golder property is very heavily wooded with what looks to be logging roads. I've mapped 3.3 miles into the woods. Do y'all think anyone would have heard her scream from that deep into the woods?http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...517,-123.293552&spn=0.01369,0.038581&t=h&z=15

that deep in? no.. not in my opinion

 

[nursebeeme]

Salem,
I think you are right on about him turning his phone off - but wouldn't it still show missed calls and stuff? How would the ppl who txt or call him know not to disturb him during this time? Hmmmm... thinking...

~or setting it to SILENT...~ just a thought

eta: hope the silent setting would be the case... as pings would be registered

further eta.. when your phone rings while you are otherwise busy... turning the ringer to silent or vibrate could be a possibility

 

[TakeNote]

how long does a perp keep them in like say a car.....what is the *normal* amount of time a perp would give them selves to get to a place to get her under his control?

 

[scandi]

Great find Scandi! I'm wondering if all towers are listed because I don't see Verizon or AT&T or Sprint towers.

Salem

We have a poster here who posted the 7 towers in GHC, and they were broken down by company. The one closest to McCleary is by Verizon I know, kind of above the Capitol Forest area. I 'll go pull what I read but don't think AT&T or SPRINT have any towers in the area.

I found this, a listing of all the cell towers in GHC I believe from o'er yonder but published:

"
Full list of 8 FCC Registered Antenna Towers in Elma, WA:
ROBERT S SNOW, Pine +2nd Street (Lat: 47.005083 Lon: -123.402361), Type: Tower, Structure height: 15.2 m, Overall height: 15.2 m, , Licensee ID: L00144848
Registrant: Public Utility Dist. #1of Grays Harbor County, Aberdeen, WA 98520,

ROBERT S SNOW, Minot Peak 7 Miles South Of Elma Wa. (Lat: 46.891500 Lon: -123.416278), Type: Tower, Structure height: 21.3 m, Overall height: 21.3 m, , Licensee ID: L00144848
Registrant: Public Utility Dist. #1of Grays Harbor County, Aberdeen, WA 98520, Phone:

Lottie L Thompson, 510 Workman Creek Road (Elma #43230) (Lat: 46.971556 Lon: -123.439028), Type: Tower, Structure height: 61.6 m, Overall height: 63.4 m
Registrant: American Towers, Inc., 1101 Perimeter Drive, Schaumburg, IL 60173, Phone:

Robert Leedham, Rr Ave & #rd St (Lat: 47.007583 Lon: -123.404333), Type: Tower, Structure height: 27.4 m, Overall height: 33.5 m
Registrant: The Burlington Northern And Santa Fe Railway Co, 4515 Kansas Avenue, Kansas City, KS 66106-1199, Phone:

Ross Read, E End Of Tower Boulevard, Concrete Cooling Tower #3 (Lat: 46.960833 Lon: -123.463056), Type: Building, Structure height: 152.4 m, Overall height: 161.5 m
Registrant: Radio Licensing Services, Milwaukie, OR 97269-2161, Phone:

Ross Read, W End Of Tower Boulevard, Concrete Cooling Tower #5 (Lat: 46.959167 Lon: -123.474444), Type: Building, Structure height: 152.4 m, Overall height: 161.5 m
Registrant: Radio Licensing Services, Milwaukie, OR 97269-2161,


PETER M CONNOLLY, 2.5 Mi Se (Lat: 46.986111 Lon: -123.358056), Type: Tower, Structure height: 115.8 m, Overall height: 118.9 m
Registrant: Holland & Knight LLP, 2099 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Sui, Washington, DC 20006, Phone:


501 N. 2nd Street (Lat: 47.003333 Lon: -123.403333), Type: Tower, Structure height: 24.3 m, Overall height: 24.3 m
Registrant: Puget Sound And Pacific Railroad, 501 North 2nd Street, Elma, WA 98541, Phone:"

 

[momtective]

Scandi, I definitely think we are moving in the right direction as far as logging roads go. Now whether he would have gone North, South, East, or West from where he took her on Maple street is yet to be determined. I'm thinking since his car was seen near Beehive around 10:00pm that maybe he did go toward Beck. But if he was coming from Beehive back toward Foreman maybe he would have gone to the woods across from Foreman off of Sandy Creek. I think both areas should be searched.

 

[McCleary]

ok thinking here

we know fish was into cars....we did see where he smashed in his in some of his pics...it looked like it was out in the forest.....

are there places where kids can drive thier cars around in the mud and stuff like that....or go dirt bike ridding .....off trails?

i noticed the person that connect walters to fishs girlfriend...has pics of his 4 wheelers

There are several different access points into Capital Forest where people go all the time for just driving around, mudding, and riding.

 

[McCleary]

Scandi, I definitely think we are moving in the right direction as far as logging roads go. Now whether he would have gone North, South, East, or West from where he took her on Maple street is yet to be determined. I'm thinking since his car was seen near Beehive around 10:00pm that maybe he did go toward Beck. But if he was coming from Beehive back toward Foreman maybe he would have gone to the woods across from Foreman off of Sandy Creek. I think both areas should be searched.

If he didn't want it to look like he was doing anything unusual, he probably headed back toward his own house when he was leaving town...and if he kept going out Mox Chehalis Rd. past Foreman/Sandy Creek then he could get down to highway 12 and head toward Capital Forest, I5 or the coast and all the forested areas before you get out there quite easily

 

[Salem]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

 

[Knox]

What about the area of the second job he was working, is that too far away to be a possibility. Also thought about whether a spiked soft drink was offered?

 

[boondock]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

oops deleted - sorry

 

[Salem]

What about the area of the second job he was working, is that too far away to be a possibility. Also thought about whether a spiked soft drink was offered?

First we have to determine where his 2nd job was.... If it was Black Lake, it is not too far away. Also, as Take Note has pointed out we have some timeline gaps in his cell phone usage that need to be addressed.

Last call at 9:26 p.m then nothing until 1:11 a.m. and then nothing until 6:18ish a.m. If he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m., got off the phone with his GF when he saw Lindsey (timing is perfect), continued incommunicado until 1:11 a.m. where was he at 1:11 a.m.? Was he back home? Was he in McCleary? Was he near his 2nd job? Then incommunicado again until 6:00ish - where was he then? Was he home? or elsewhere?

We really need a ping map.....

Salem

 

[scandi]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

WOW Salem, It goes together with the possibility LE has a clever strategy going to draw this guy out, first called a POI then not, meanwhile everyone in the County practically knows who he is, what he drives and has his picture in their minds.

People are going to start putting the seeing of him together as they ponder the question and it will pop back into their minds, like "Yes, by jove, I saw that guy turn off Mox-Chehalis Rd down by where the old ___estate was and hey, no one could miss the sound of the pipes. I told my buddy these kids are crazy these days with souped up cars out heading into the boonies - half scared me to death when he made that quick turn. . . ., yes, it could be this fishly lookin' guy on the news I saw! Haa Ha. Think I better mention that to Sgt Fred down at the BINGO game tonight".

Sorry, but it would be how a sighting could come to memory, and I bet LE is going to reap the fruit of their strategy and take it to the bank! ;}

 

[scandi]

First we have to determine where is 2nd job was.... If it was Black Lake, it is not too far away. Also, as Take Note has pointed out we have some timeline gaps in his cell phone usage that need to be addressed.

Last call at 9:26 p.m then nothing until 1:11 a.m. and then nothing until 6:18ish a.m. If he was in McCleary at 9:26 p.m., got off the phone with his GF when he saw Lindsey (timing is perfect), continued incommunicado until 1:11 a.m. where was he at 1:11 a.m.? Was he back home? Was he in McCleary? Was he near his 2nd job? Then incommunicado again until 6:00ish - where was he then? Was he home? or elsewhere?

We really need a ping map.....

Salem

Hi again Salem, I don't think we'll see that until discovery, do you, although reading that Affidavit was like hearing 'GOOD MORNING VIET NAM all over again. Amazing still I think. xox

 

[TakeNote]

Rock Candy Mountain
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...39,-122.974262&spn=0.027395,0.077162&t=h&z=14

i found some pics on i believe is dales relitives, cause they live in the same area and they share the same last name.....

there were pics of mudding up in the forest and under one of the pics it mentioned rock candy mountian....and i looked it up.....

something to look into.....its in the capital forest area....18 miles from McCleary and straight shot on highway 8

 

[Jules71]

I want to post this before I lose my train of thought (from the SW): "When asked why he was sure of this he said it was because he and Golder had discussed the progress of their tomato plants. He said that his had developed into much better plants than Golder's, even though they were planted later. He said that until the evening of Wednesday August 26, 2009 or Thursday August 27, 2009 he had only seen Golder around the shop maybe once or twice all summer. He said that after those dates Golder sometimes--------------had been at Hardy’s residence talking to him almost every evening. The increased visits coincide with_____________being interviewed on 08-26-09. Ralke described ___________ as having some mental issues that may be due to alcohol and or drug abuse. He said he can be manipulated into believing things that did not occur."

Bolded part has my imagination running wild. Maybe Lindsey is alive. Maybe he has her stashed somewhere and that is why he has not been at his shop all summer, until he was interviewed by LE. I know it is a stretch, but it is possible. Where has he been? Also, the witnesses regarding his car said they thought it was strange that DG (or fish as he is now known) was NOT driving his car through town several times a day as was his habit BEFORE Lindsey went missing. So, he is not driving around town and he is not at his shop? His car is hard to miss, because it is noisy. WHERE has he been the last couple of months before LE interviewed him in August?

Whew.... There were so many posts I sped through so I could post this. I posted the distance from Black Lake to McCleary before reading all the way through, only to find that TakeNote (I think it was take note) had already posted it. Didn't want to duplicate again. Now, I will go back and respond to some of those posts that caught my eye.....

Salem

I agree this should be explored more. We should do a "where was dale" timeline between 6/26 and 8/26 or 8/27.

6/26/09, 10 pm: Seen by someone by Beehive / gf also states he had to work at 10.
6/28/09: Returned to work (Youth Camp)
7/16/09: Ellensburg (sw says gf had to drive him back to ELMA)
7/17? - 7/20/09: sw says gf stayed with him in MCCLEARY
7/31/09: At work (Beehive) stopped by LE after following MB
8/26 or 8/27/09 seen at shop by tomato man

 

[TakeNote]

also in the capital forest area .....there is a few places you can camp for free

im curious where was he during that time??? for what ....a month?

i know his girl friend made comment on other myspace travis t moms myspace that she was hoping d would take a couple weeks off in aug and go for a visit....

 

[eyes4crime]

I'm thinking that Lindsey might have gone with Golder willingly. I'm pretty sure they know each other from the Beehive. The affidavit stated that many employees and residents at Beehive knew Lindsey. I'm thinking maybe he told her she could drive his car but they'd have to go out to the dirt roads or an out of the way place so she wouldn't get caught driving. Maybe he offered to teach her to drive or maybe he just offered her a ride home to get her in the car. But if he offered her a ride and went in another direction other than her home I think she might have tried to jump out of the car. So the telling her he would take her somewhere safe to drive would have bought him enough time to at least get on the highway and up to a speed that would make it less likely she would jump out or fight him.
I think once he got her to a secluded location her did the unthinkable. I'm thinking the location would have had to be secluded because I'm sure she screamed and fought him. Now we just have to find that secluded area.
Looking at black lake it appears to have lakeside homes all around it. The camp area though appears to be heavily wooded yet not necessarily secluded.
I'm thinking he would have gone somewhere that would not be associated with him. Not close to his home or jobs. Somewhere very secluded where screaming after 10:00pm would not be noticed.
Any ideas where that would be?

I gree momtective - I doubt very much he would take her to a place associated with him - especially where he worked. Also doubt he would use water to dump Lindsey in (sorry) cause there is too much of a chance she would balloon up.

I've read all the questions about his girlfriend and the phone - am I remembering correctly that she gave him her number just that day? The 26th?

My other question to everyone is how and why would Dale Golder know that Lindsey would be walking home alone that night? She was first walking with her brother and her friend...do most of you think that he saw Lindsey walking home alone and offered her a ride, and things got out of control. TIA