Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[lizzysf]

Since Ca worked in an administrative office I'm not so sure dirty needles would have been returned there by the home health care nurses. Each nurse has a sharps container in her car. They dispose of it by placing it in a larger container with a top (sometimes these are locked). It would have been easier for KC to steal a clean needle than a dirty one from a medical facility.

Testosterone injections would be rare in a visiting nurse situation. They are generally a monthly injection..either done in the MD's office or by a trained family member. Home RN visits are generally short term after hospitalizations. The chances of having a used Testosterone syringe in the sharps container in the office is slim (VERY slim)..it's not really a task that would be visit related. Home RN visits is not a long-term setting. The RN cases managers generally work all in the same office that the nurses that do the visits work out of.. Gentiva is a franchise HH agency.. These non-hospital associated agencies are generally smaller operations.

 

[ThoughtElf]

I get some info off wikipedia. The problem is that some of the google and wikipedia links seem to be considering chlorine or chlorinated water a form of chloroform. Is it?

This is off of wikipedia:
Safety

As might be expected for an anesthetic, inhaling chloroform vapors depresses the central nervous system. It is immediately dangerous to life and health at approximately 500 ppm, according to the United States National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. Breathing about 900 ppm for a short time can cause dizziness, fatigue, and headache. Chronic chloroform exposure may cause damage to the liver (where chloroform is metabolized to phosgene) and to the kidneys, and some people develop sores when the skin is immersed in chloroform.

Though normally minute and diluted amounts are exposed to humans, chloroform can be harmful. Chloroform can be exposed via inhalation, ingestion of drinking water and foods made with chlorinated water, as well as dermal contact. It is readily excreted through exhalation, and minuscule amounts are excreted through urination and feces. The Environmental Protection Agency reports, a fatal oral dose of chloroform may be as low as 10 mL (14.8 g), with death due to respiratory or cardiac arrest [12]

Thank you. Will you please return to that wiki (we don't know which one it is from and there are many wiki-sites besides wikipedia,) and please post the link to it, as well, click on the [12] bolded in red above. That will take you to the citation/reference that was the origin of the portion you've bolded.

That will helps in two ways:
1. it will fulfill requests for links that members would like to read objectively
2. this is but a snippet posted - without the actual article & the cited source, members can not evaluate this objectively - it is in a selective context. KWIM?

Thanks... and I will be so grateful that I won't even be annoying and try to nudge this back over to the chloroform thread to stay on topic.

 

[DogMom2JoeAndWillie]

One more tidbit about chloroform... you're ALWAYS supposed to work with it in a fume hood because it's volatile and carcinogenic. If you work in a small space that isn't ventilated it'll knock you out... that's a BIG no-no.

Funny thing about older chemistry professors and chemists....they tend to forget to emphasize and implement proper safety procedures... they didn't do it when they were in college/training cause they didn't know any better (most will even admit it to you).... their attitude is "well, it didn't hurt me the last time and hasn't killed me yet..." The old guys are CRAZY dangerous in the lab... they scare me! Had one professor like that...bless his heart, he couldn't get rid of his hiccups.... he got 'em a couple of times every day, no joke. I remember thinking "well, good going buddy... probably shouldn't have been breathing all those fumes for the past thirty years....dang". He was a pretty cool guy, though... a little hard to talk to... sorry I'm OT... shutting up now.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I could describe this thread as similar to a coloring book where we fail to color inside the lines. HaHa...and to stay OT........we all thought syringe to mean medicine dropper. Interesting turn of events.

 

[RR0004]

wow thanks.....and i found this at the bottom of the page you linked

*For longer storage it should be stabilized with methanol*

seems like you can store it only for about two weeks....after its cooked ....its a powder looking stuff

i found this as well....

* 9. EXTRACT THE CHLOROFORM WITH A SEPARATION FUNNEL OR OTHER INSTRUMENT. DON'T USE AN EYEDROPPER; HEAT FROM YOUR BODY WILL CREATE PRESSURE IN THE DROPPER AND CAUSE CHLOROFORM TO SQUIRT OUT*

sounds unstable when it gets to warm?

It sounds like a really crazy thing to make. I've been looking for reasons why anyone would possibly want to make this. Is there some sort of high associated with choroform...before it knocks you out?

 

[TakeNote]

It sounds like a really crazy thing to make. I've been looking for reasons why anyone would possibly want to make this. Is there some sort of high associated with choroform...before it knocks you out?

i have no idea

i was curious if LE wiped down the walls in the kitchen to see if there was any residue left over from cooking it.....or she could have cooked it some where else....but the house makes more since.....and in cooking it you need a lot of ice...you have to keep replacing it.....did LE take a cooler?....i know they asked about what was kept in the garage freezer....maybe extra ice?

 

[john's mom]

It sounds like a really crazy thing to make. I've been looking for reasons why anyone would possibly want to make this. Is there some sort of high associated with choroform...before it knocks you out?

I bleieve there is a use for it during kinky sex. I don't know this personally, :angel: I read it here, months ago....please don't make me go find a link. I'm too tired.

 

[shellsbells]

It sounds like a really crazy thing to make. I've been looking for reasons why anyone would possibly want to make this. Is there some sort of high associated with choroform...before it knocks you out?

I've wondered the same thing... I don't remember who it was, but someone was speculating that RM (because he had the "win her with chloroform" thing) and KC did it recreationally and so that may be where she got the idea.. and boy I gotta say I have run with a wild crowd in my day and consider myself fairly street savvy but I have never, ever heard of that. Ketamine, sure, but chloroform?

Something about the way the Anthonys talk about drug use in general has kind of baffled me in the first place, though.. especially the intimation that AH and RM were "into heroin".. that's just... unrealistic, and not something that would come out of the mouth of someone that had ever actually been around real hard drug use. IMO, and that's OT... my point is that I have never heard of someone using chloroform recreationally. I think KC watched way, way too many movies, is very suggestible, and not very bright.

 

[Kimster]

I mean think about it. Casey duct tapes her then injects her then puts the siringe back in the plastic, then puts that in the gator bottle of cleaning solution, then puts the lid back on the gator bottle then puts the gator bottle in the disney bag then throws the bag? C'mon people, this did not happen. This is way too far fetched.

Are you saying you think this was done where Caylee was left for Kronk to find months later? I think she was working out of her car and put everything back together so it wouldn't get all over her car. It was after she murdered her beautiful baby girl that she threw everything on the side of the road. It is not far fetched to me at all. It is totally logical.

 

[lizzysf]

I've wondered the same thing... I don't remember who it was, but someone was speculating that RM (because he had the "win her with chloroform" thing) and KC did it recreationally and so that may be where she got the idea.. and boy I gotta say I have run with a wild crowd in my day and consider myself fairly street savvy but I have never, ever heard of that. Ketamine, sure, but chloroform?

Something about the way the Anthonys talk about drug use in general has kind of baffled me in the first place, though.. especially the intimation that AH and RM were "into heroin".. that's just... unrealistic, and not something that would come out of the mouth of someone that had ever actually been around real hard drug use. IMO, and that's OT... my point is that I have never heard of someone using chloroform recreationally. I think KC watched way, way too many movies, is very suggestible, and not very bright.

The A's seem to come up with a back-up plan for every piece of evidence...Heroine use and syringe...ooops..there goes RM and AH under the bus again.

 

[Imbackon]

I wish I knew how close the Disney bag was to the skull.

The Disney bag was within a foot of the Skull btw.
This from Harmony2

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6039&d=1257225639

 

[ThoughtElf]

sorry, and i apologize for my post about the duct tape, silly me I thought I was in the new docs thread. I am sorry ya'll.
GO AHEAD and laugh I will just hide in the corner for awhile

and yeah yeah I know this post is off topic as well so sue me, anyone know where I can find a good lawyer?

Not off-hand, but I do know the names of several Florida defense lawyers I would not hire based on observed performance & legal submissions. :wink:

 

[Kimster]

I bleieve there is a use for it during kinky sex. I don't know this personally, :angel: I read it here, months ago....please don't make me go find a link. I'm too tired.

Yehp...it was all over the net when I googled it. Here's one man who died from doing that...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7326676.stm

 

[Cat13067]

Cecy,
Didn't see this b4, but you can buy some of these over the counter at drug stores. Diabetics have to do it all the time. also medical supply companies. I'm recalling her item she came out of Walgreens with when seen by Thompson

I have a friend who has problems with penal erections and he injects himself with some medicine from the urlogist into the base of his penis. GA had high blood pressure and that is one of the most common causes for this problem. Could be that KC took the syringe and packaging right out of her parents bathroom after GA injected himself therefore explaining the male hormone found in the syringe.

 

[debbie0604]

This is outstanding news!!!
Casey is toast

Yep... this is the news I've been waiting on all along. I've wondered what was in that sports bottle and in that syringe since I've read that in the first discovery. I had a hunch it could be chloroform because of how it has to be stored. Now I know. And the fact that testosterone was present in the syringe as well leads me to believe that she stole a syringe from a BF that was possibly self inj. steroids. JMO

 

[Curious Me]

Casey's smart enough apparently to know to keep her choloform in a syringe, not an eye dropper. Hmm...but not smart...she left that bottle in a backpack with the remains. I still can't understand why so much other stuff was lugged to the remains site. How did the backpack get left there? Makes me think she just immediately wrapped Caylee in a blanket, backpack, ponies, and didn't give it a second thought.

 

[nostoneunturned]

With Casey's habit of always telling some truth with her "lies"..her constant mention of Hospitals..(George having a stroke)( Zanny being in the accident,) mom working in a medical facility and GP in a nursing home, I think it would have been very easy for her to have got her hands on a needle...remember the early visit to JG for a shower,that she really didn't look like she needed...he said..was that a way of acquiring some evidence to plant...how many days was this before Caylee vanished? If she used something to link it to JG it could backfire and prove how many days she planned this in advance.
I am so proud of the way the state keeps kicking butt for Caylee. I only wish I would have witnessed the same dedication for the truth from the A's.
Someone asked "do you think Casey will ever spill the beans??" I say "she will or the A's will when they need some more blood money for another "family" vacation-2...when the money they have runs low look out for another family drama..Cindy is in the motel with a note and cell phone ..sorry I can have no pity for them..their actions speak louder than words..
In My opinion Casey is a cold blooded baby killer and her parents are both enablers and are about two of the most despicable people I have ever witnessed.How do you use this precious child like they did and continue to do?
I admit at first I found it hard to understand how GA and CA could act the way they do, but I believe I understand now ..they were always this way.Caylee was always a trophy...just like the death certificate that is displayed...while Cindy still believes Caylee is alive...anything to keep the Circus rolling and the bucks filtering in...God have mercy on their souls..

 

[3doglady]

Testosterone injections would be rare in a visiting nurse situation. They are generally a monthly injection..either done in the MD's office or by a trained family member. Home RN visits are generally short term after hospitalizations. The chances of having a used Testosterone syringe in the sharps container in the office is slim (VERY slim)..it's not really a task that would be visit related. Home RN visits is not a long-term setting. The RN cases managers generally work all in the same office that the nurses that do the visits work out of.. Gentiva is a franchise HH agency.. These non-hospital associated agencies are generally smaller operations.

I agree that the T injections would not given by HH nurses. I was an ICU nurse which is a totally different animal but have a friend who is HH nurse. She actually does have long term patients because she is a wound care specialist and a lot of diabetics and older people heal slowly. Those patients have sharps containers in their homes. So as you said, chances are very slim that the needle was related to home health care.

 

[OneLostGrl]

sorry, and i apologize for my post about the duct tape, silly me I thought I was in the new docs thread. I am sorry ya'll.
GO AHEAD and laugh I will just hide in the corner for awhile

and yeah yeah I know this post is off topic as well so sue me, anyone know where I can find a good lawyer?

:hug:

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

One more tidbit about chloroform... you're ALWAYS supposed to work with it in a fume hood because it's volatile and carcinogenic. If you work in a small space that isn't ventilated it'll knock you out... that's a BIG no-no.

Funny thing about older chemistry professors and chemists....they tend to forget to emphasize and implement proper safety procedures... they didn't do it when they were in college/training cause they didn't know any better (most will even admit it to you).... their attitude is "well, it didn't hurt me the last time and hasn't killed me yet..." The old guys are CRAZY dangerous in the lab... they scare me! Had one professor like that...bless his heart, he couldn't get rid of his hiccups.... he got 'em a couple of times every day, no joke. I remember thinking "well, good going buddy... probably shouldn't have been breathing all those fumes for the past thirty years....dang". He was a pretty cool guy, though... a little hard to talk to... sorry I'm OT... shutting up now.

See, I just don't see that Casey is this self-controlled enough person to take on the task of making her own batch of chloroform. Do you have any idea how easily available it would be to her without making it herself?

And, just in case the placement of the syringe filled with testosterone, chloroform, ethanol and water was tossed in the same area as garbage and not really connected to Caylee ~ Do you know, right off the top of your head, anything (other drug or application) that it could possibly be? TIA.