2010-04-23 JVM: Tommy Croslin's Attorney Speaks

[Whisperer]

So the attorney said he will let Jane figure out why Tommy was pointing at the docks. She can figure it out because she is brilliant. Man, these attorneys are smooth flattering tap dancers.

 

[Whisperer]

Okay, Tommy led them there not the other way around. This was a spot that was familiar to several people.

My head is spiinning because rc said that he had kge of timmy at the fishing hole with tommy...that tommy was scared, he had Austin with him and it was getting dark, so he went home. He ranted on about it looking like Lake Placid (Alligators) reference. (cobra tapes)

 

[Donjeta]

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Jim. Misty and Tommy are both behind bars on drug conspiracy charges. Tommy has acknowledged that he was taking a lot of pills before he was arrested. What do you know, if anything, about the drug use going on in the home? And do you think this might be a plausible theory?

WERTER: There are so many theories going on. And again, it addresses the issues of the investigation. And I have a good relationship. Should I jeopardize that relationship or the investigation itself, I cannot disclose that kind of information. I just can`t do it. I want to see a successful end to this investigation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, but let me just ask you this. You know what Tommy -- in other words, Tommy says he knows the story, but he`s not involved. You know the story that Tommy`s told you. So you know what Tommy`s theory is or what Tommy`s story is.

WERTER: I know that theory.

I have two thoughts about it.

He can't talk about it because drugs tie in with Haleigh somehow, or because Tommy is in jail for drug charges right now and it doesn't look good for him if he hangs out with his sis in a drug-infested house with pills lolling about.

 

[Whisperer]

So Werter is denying that tommy is involved but tommy has a theory on what happened. What he didn't make clear is what tommy is not involved in...the murder or the cover-up. I think and it can be assumed that Werter is speaking of the crime of homicide and tommy has a theory on what happened to Haleigh while she was alive and how she may have died. It appears tommy has knowlege of what happened to Haleigh only AFTER she died , according to Werter.

 

[gngr~snap]

So Werter is denying that tommy is involved but tommy has a theory on what happened. What he didn't make clear is what tommy is not involved in...the murder or the cover-up. I think and it can be assumed that Werter is speaking of the crime of homicide and tommy has a theory on what happened to Haleigh while she was alive and how she may have died. It appears tommy has knowlege of what happened to Haleigh only AFTER she died , according to Werter.

And we are to believe that Tommy wouldn't ask what the heck happened here? and just dispose of a body for his sister?
not being snarky..
This is an honest question! I'm an only child... I wanna say no way I'd do it but I can't say that cause I have no siblings.

 

[twall]

I think I like this lawyer the best of the ones we've seen so far. He's doing a good job it seems.

He did a neat sidestep right there in the beginning of the show. He got asked what he thinks about Flora's allegations that Tommy and Joe were in another room molesting Haleigh while Misty listened to it and if Tommy and Joe tied her to a brick and threw her in the river. And he avoids replying to any of that neatly by going off on a tangent about dates and times and who contacted who about the search.

I don't give a blue hoot about what date it was when Tommy had his polygraph or if it was Monday or Tuesday he was on the dock. I want to know if he and Joe molested Haleigh and tied her to a brick and threw her in the river.

I like Jim Werter, too. He doesn't give non-answers like Shoey and Joe's lawyer, he doesn't beat around the bush, he tells it like it is! He doesn't have the cat that ate the canary look on his face, either!!

JMO

 

[Whisperer]

And we are to believe that Tommy wouldn't ask what the heck happened here? and just dispose of a body for his sister?
not being snarky..
This is an honest question! I'm an only child... I wanna say no way I'd do it but I can't say that cause I have no siblings.

Guess I wasn't clear. Tommy has a theory on what happened to Haleigh, according to Werter. We don't know what misty told him but she must have told him a lie...we can count on it.

 

[gngr~snap]

Whisperer~
No you are fine! I mis read what you said sorry!

would be an interesting poll tho... if it could be anonymous...
would siblings hide a body for each other...
sorry. Imma go sit in the corner.

 

[twall]

So the attorney said he will let Jane figure out why Tommy was pointing at the docks. She can figure it out because she is brilliant. Man, these attorneys are smooth flattering tap dancers.

I believe Tommy was pointing out a place at the docks that he WAS TOLD Haleigh was disposed of. Who told him? Misty, of course. Here is why I think that and a few other thoughts, lol.

Steve Brown took Tommy’s word to be the truth after the failed LDT that Joe is responsible and took credit for solving the case. NOT! I believe Tommy showed deception on his test because he was hiding a story that Misty told him about Joe. There is no proof this is what happened, there is no proof Haleigh was disposed of at the Shell Harbour boat dock/pier. IMO, she was not. If yellow rope and cinder blocks were recovered during the search it could have been placed there by Misty or someone else as a RED HERRING. Or they could have been anyones. It’s not like they are uncommon items used in boating on a river.

It is my belief that Haleigh was not disposed of there. I think this because of the info. gators are not active in Feb. and if she was there she would have surfaced much earlier. I am not trying to be disrespectful to Haleigh in any way, just think Laci Peterson and she was not placed anywhere near the shore. There is no way she would have not decomposed to a degree that something would not have come to the surface and as popular as that place is to people fishing and launching their boats someone would have found something long ago.

Sheriff Hardy did the right thing by calling the family members together to inform them of the search instead of them hearing it through another source. If he told them of the Joe info. that came from Tommy’s interview imo he was wrong to do so. That should have been kept to himself as should all the info. GMA Hollars has been spewing. I’m sorry, but someone should put a muzzle on her. All she is doing is repeating hearsay. If Hardy told the family that Haleigh was deceased by Tommy’s info. alone he was wrong to do that also, imo. How could he do that without proof? Even if it is just a possibility, he shouldn’t of done that or said that to the public. Does he have other knowledge/proof she is no longer living? I certainly hope he does and does not go by the word of all of these liars! There is no way in hello I would have my daughter declared legally dead without proof instead of waiting the 7 yrs. to have it done legally. I am with GMA Sykes on this one, show me , don’t just tell me, which tells me that is exactly what he did. I am also not keen on LE not securing the search site Monday eve. when TC took them there. It was not done until the search started at 10 am the next day. Hardy also stated it is a good possibility Haleigh died at the search site.
Here he is speculating again, imo. This is what GMA Flo said on one of the shows she was on, also, so it leads me to believe she told that to LE.
If he is taking her word or Tommy’s word as the gospel truth there is something very wrong with him!
I would rather hear nothing from LE than speculations based on liars info. It all makes sense now…

Misty told Tommy (before the drug arrests) the same Joe story she told Chelsea in her letter to her but left the Tommy info. out of it.
Tommy failed some of the LDT questions because he was holding back the info. Misty told him.
When he was further questioned about the test results he told the story Misty told him. LE got involved and searched the area Tommy was told about but nothing of evidentiary value was recovered because it is all a lie. Did Tommy take another LDT to determine if the Joe story is true? I don’t know but I highly doubt he did. Misty failed the questions on her Joe story. When Tommy called GMA Flo Sunday evening and asked her to have Lindsy call his lawyer and have him get a hold of PI Steve Brown she claims she “broke him”. She did no such thing, Tommy had went over his LDT and knew it would be turned in to LE and they would soon be questioning him again. He decided to come clean and tell what he was told about Joe. GMA Flo asked him if it was Joe and Tommy confirmed it. GMA Flo made the assumption that Tommy had to be involved and went with Joe because he knew where to look for the evidence at. She is asked if Tommy implicated himself at all during their conversation and she says no. She just assumed he was there and helped but he is repeating a story Misty told him only in the version she told him he is not brought into the picture like he is in the Chelsea letter or the version Misty told her GMA. GMA Flo is also making this assumption about Misty, she had to be involved because she knew where to look for the evidence at and what the evidence is (rope and block) but imo Misty is lying about that and GMA Flo believes her. Someone told GMA the rope/block info. and when Misty called her she asked Misty about it. GMA leads, Misty follows and tells her more lies about how the block/rope was used. Where did the info. come
from that Tommy, Joe and Misty took Haleigh to Shell Harbour to dispose of her? GMA Flo, who is repeating stories she has heard from others and making speculations from that info. Is GMA Flo credible? I think so, yes, all she is doing is repeating things told to her. Are GMA Flo’s “sources”
credible? NO, imo. She reminds me of Art, she repeats things told to her with a little twist added at times, he/she can’t help it if those they are quoting/repeating aren’t being honest. I am not sold that Tommy, Joe, Lindsy, Timmy and Chelsea are involved.

I have a feeling all of this hoopla is another dead end. Ron looked so cool coming out of the meeting because he knows what was discussed is not the truth, except that Haleigh is dead. He is not angry with Misty because she didn’t crack and is still being loyal to him.

It all comes back to my signature line.

Haleigh, I am so sorry that no one cares enough about you to stand up and tell the truth.

JMO

 

[Whisperer]

Attorney states tommy did not discuss case with Grandma Flo

Attorney said that tc told him that he did not discuss case with Flo but admitted to call. He has not received the audio from the County yet.

 

[Whisperer]

Twall .. your mind is so sharp..wow! I agree with you. I don't know about the tim and chelsea part but I'm pretty sure about the rest.

I believe Flo got all of her information from various people and just attempts to put it together...just theories mixed in with what she was told. Regardless, if LE didn't like it, they would stop it. She is helping by spouting it all. Misty must be fuming, which is the point. LE is isolating misty. First, they stopped her mom from visiting, now they have Flo talking.

LE made it clear and so did Brown that there will be multiple arrests.

 

[raisincharlie]

Twall - great ideas. As usual though I have a question - if GMa Hollars was just taking info told to her and speculating, don't you think she has absolutely impeccible timing ?

Based on the Granny smack down on NG - Flo says she called GGMa Sykes with her information on Monday morning, the morning after she gets a call from both Tommy and Misty. In that call she tells GGMa Sykes where Haleigh was supposedly placed. GGMa Sykes confirms this happened. That very morning Tommy is taken to the area and TN and GGMa Sykes take a field trip looking.

I don't know about you, but I do not much believe in coincidence.

Unfortunately, I agree with you that Haleigh was not found there, more like the "red rose" story to me. I'm not sure anything of importance was found there at all.

ETA - I find the timing of the calls from Tommy and Misty suspect as well. But one thing Flo mentioned that I believe most likely is true, is that Misty was sending letters for other people, Tommy being one, to her relatives and asking that the letters be sent to other inmates. This whole story just reeks to me of a couple of inmates inventing a story to tell without ever talking face to face.

 

[suspicious1]

Twall-I absolutely agree with your analysis of the situation. I think Tommy was going by what he was told. I've always said that. IMO, Tommy knew enough...to have a dead rat put in his mailbox. Ron didn't want him to talk. Tommy implied on the jailhouse tapes that Misty was covering for Ron...the Croslins seem to think that. That's why I figured that when Tommy started "talking".....he told what Ron didn't want him tell. JMO though.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

Thinking about Werther's comments on GFLO and what Tommy says he didn't say to her. We will find out eventually who lied about that phone call. I'm excited to think we might actually have a "fact" coming out in this case, albeit an ancillary one. Could she lawyer up if she feels she has been "slandered" on national tv, because essentially Werther is suggesting she lied. Don't think anything could surprise me anymore.

 

[redcar1]

Last night on JVM - the lawyer really did not shed any new light on the case except that ToC 'knew about what happened to Haleigh, yet had no involvement'.

(IMO that goes along with the RC and MC doing something to Haleigh earlier in the day and was told to dispose of the body theory)

Later, on NG, it was stated the ToC's lawyer stopped representing him in the Haleigh case and was just going to represent him in the current drug charges. Is this new? I can't find anything else on this anywhere on the internet. Does anyone know anything about this? This would be telling, if it was true!

 

[raisincharlie]

Last night on JVM - the lawyer really did not shed any new light on the case except that ToC 'knew about what happened to Haleigh, yet had no involvement'.

(IMO that goes along with the RC and MC doing something to Haleigh earlier in the day and was told to dispose of the body theory)

Later, on NG, it was stated the ToC's lawyer stopped representing him in the Haleigh case and was just going to represent him in the current drug charges. Is this new? I can't find anything else on this anywhere on the internet. Does anyone know anything about this? This would be telling, if it was true!

You can find reference to this, the lawyer not repping Tommy, at Art Harris - Dr. Fessel provided the link. Werter supposedly texted AH to say this. However, last night on JVM, seems to me the lawyer was doing exactly that, repping Tommy regarding Haleigh.

 

[1Chump]

Just a thought for those that wonder how Tommy would know about the location if he wasn't involved...It could be as simple as something he overheard or something that Misty told him that makes him think that's the right spot. IF that were the case, I'm hoping and praying that it was some form of the truth anyway and NOT just another one of her stories :banghead:...just sayin' it's possible, that's all..

That could also explain why Tommy "failed" if he did yet they still ended up searching at the dock. If Tommy heard a story but does not personally believe it to be true I would think it may up as "deceptive" on the LDT?

Like if Misty told him she killed Haleigh but Tommy believes she is covering for Ron, on the LTD if he was asked "Did Misty tell you that she killed Haleigh" his response would be "yes" but since he does not believe she did, I would think it would show as deceptive. I don't know this to be fact....just seems logical to me.

 

[Crosby87]

Just speculating but I think they already are... It might be one reason why Lindsay moved away from the rest of the clan.

Here is the link to Tommy Croslin's Incident Report dated 05/Nov/09 which was copied to Dept of Children & Families.

http://www.artharris.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/TOMMY-CROSLIN-JR-ARREST-2009-9839.pdf

 

[1Chump]

Hmmm, I have to think through this one. How would Flo know? Maybe Lindsy told family who told Misty in jail and then Misty called Granny?

I think Flo has heard so many different things from different sources that she does not know who told her what. The other night (4/22/10) on NG when Chelsea questioned why Flo was implicating 3 of her grandchildren, the exchange was:

GRACE: Ms. Hollars, what`s your response to that?

HOLLARS: My response to that is why did she tell me the road to tell them to go at?
GRACE: Repeat?

CHELSEA CROSLIN: Well, Nanny, you -- Nanny, you were the one that said, Where do you want searched? And I said I wanted 309, not specifically a dock -- I said 309 because I got a letter from Misty stating that Joe might have had -- or Joe was the involving party. So from there, I called the detective, Kay Sangelica (ph), the head detective on the case. I told them about it.

HOLLARS: And so did I. And so did I.

CHELSEA CROSLIN: He did not follow up with it. So then from there, I asked Leonard Padilla. Leonard Padilla, will you help me fund a search? Because I don`t have money myself, and my goal in life is to find Haleigh. That`s all that matters to us.

So at some point, Flo discussed with Chelsea the letter that Misty sent. Flo herself said that Tommy confessed to her. However, Flo says brought up Joe and Tommy agreed then she told Misty what Tommy "told" her and Misty agreed. IMO, it was what I used to do with my Grandma when I had to call my Grandma to tell her something but did not have time to talk.... "yeah sure Grandma but I called because I needed to tell you...."

Too many times when I have watched Flo, she will say something that I think "wow I just read that today online."

That same night, 4/22, Flo said

" HOLLARS: So did little Junior hear the couch bouncing."

I just feel Flo is talking to people who are asking her to comment on things they have "heard" or "read" and Flo is repeating every thing.

 

[1Chump]

James Werter, private attorney in practice..You mean the state can hire a private practice attorney as a Public Defender?

I thought he was working voluntariily pro bono for Tommy...either way Tommy is lucky.

I would say they all have state paid "private attorneys" rather than public defenders. Look at the public defender's office as a law firm. Just as a law firm cannot represent two clients in the same case where their interests are different, the public defender's office cannot. Also if a law firm previous represented a defendant, that law firm cannot now represent another defendant against that previous client because they would have confidential information learned about the client in the previous case. Same with the public defenders office.

In those cases, the public defenders office is conflicted out and the state "hires" a private attorney to represent a defendant in place of the public defender's office. However, those private attorneys are not paid the same rate that they would be paid if a private citizen hired them. They usually contract with the State to represent defendants that the public defenders cannot at a reduced fee.