Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #8

[mister happy]

As far as things the cops could check for to see if Joran's confession adds up, wouldn't his laptop's internet browsing history be an obvious choice? If the browsing times and websites aren't true, then Joran's confession is shot down.

 

[jjenny]

As far as things the cops could check to see if Joran's confession adds up, wouldn't his laptop's internet browsing history be an obvious choice? If the browsing times and websites aren't true, then Joran's confession is shot to down.

They are going to take him to the hotel for a reenactment so if the time line does not make sense I am sure they will know.

 

[Wings Of Light]

Just on this board alone I have seen several different timelines on when exactly he went to get coffee.

I just poured pretty much all of the articles that have been posted in the numerous threads that have been following this.

I haven't found any specific time in sourced information that says when he left room, aside from saying "around 8am."

Check the timeline I posted, which is fully sourced and accurate, on the previous page.

 

[Dion]

Thank you Wings of Light for the providing a timeline and establishing a Wave.

Good job!

 

[krowdkat]

Just on this board alone I have seen several different timelines on when exactly he went to get coffee.

This is true. However, this report was coming from a local Peruvian paper. The journalist there are not getting the story 3 and 4th hand. Plus, I'm sure police have video from the convenience store and probably timed stamped receipts from the register.

And now we also know that Joran was caught on camera leaving Stephany in room 309 three times instead of two. 1) to get coffee 2) to go down to the front desk to pay for late days 3) to flee to Santiago.

Thus cutting down the time frame he had to fight, kill, clean up, pack, compose himself and flee to around 20 minutes if he killed her sometime after he bought the coffee.

 

[mister happy]

They are going to take him to the hotel for a reenactment so if the time line does not make sense I am sure they will know.

Do you know what time the reenactment will take place? It would be crazy if all went well for Joran and everything lined up.

 

[Kateyes]

In reading through these threads earlier there has been many posts about the story Joran told not ringing true, hard to believe things happened the way he said, etc. Just my two cents, but once upon a time in my younger years I taught psych nursing. This was when the US still had a number of inpatient psych hospitals, especially the ones with chronic patients who stayed for a lifetime once admitted.

I truly believe that trying to apply the logic of a non-sociopath to the way a sociopath thinks doesn't work. A sociopath, by nature, IMHO, walks a fine line, and needs to feel always in control. Anything that threatens even their own delusion of who they are will threaten their center of control. That can be anything at all. So, Joran probably felt very much in control of the situation, and of Stephany, no matter what the actual motive was for the two to be in his room. I believe it was money, and he may have actually believed he could have talked her into "loaning" him some money with an empty promise of payback, etc. When she googled him she showed that she now saw through him. The ego of a sociopath cannot take that type of insult. The delicate balance of his locus of control was gone. The result was a spontaneous murderous rage, resulting in Natalee's death.
As I posted last night, Joran only confessed because there was something in it for Joran. I speculated a lighter sentence. What kills me (sorry, no pun intended) is that by confessing he is once again attempting to manipulate things to his advantage. And he would have no problem at all lying to do so. JMHO

 

[Nancy2441]

Just looked at this link from a few days ago:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/jo...al-manhunt-natalee-holloway/story?id=10813490

Found these quotes from SF's former girlfriend:

Though living openly as a lesbian, Flores struggled to balance her sexuality with her parents' intense disapproval, her ex-girlfriend Stephanie Jimenez told "Good Morning America" today.

Jimenez said that Flores had recently been hitting the casinos especially hard, spending thousands of dollars at a time. She described Flores as a good girl whose intense insecurity shaped much of her behavior.

Jimenez, now living in Miami, said that Flores would often flirt with men while gambling at the casino with her father, Peruvian businessman and racecar driver Ricardo Flores, even though she was out to the gay community.

 

[Melanie]

We wish to welcome you on behalf of all those working in the "HOTEL TAC" to this page that purports to be an extension in space and time from our house and, therefore, an extension of our services.

Intended to be, well, other means of communication and meeting between you, our guest, and all who are here to give you a pleasant stay.



Mel

 

[~PrinceSSa~]

Also the article mentions that his return from the coffee trip was at 8:25. That only leaves 31 minutes from arriving back at the hostel until he fled at 8:56.

ETA: This is what it says...There, the police found out that the Dutchman bought two cups of coffee at 8:00 am on Sunday, returned to the hotel, went up to his room, and returned with only one cup of coffee to pay for 2 late days, and it was 8:25. At 8:45 he left with a black backpack and a brown suitcase in his hand. They never saw him again.

The time stamp on the video is 11 minutes too fast as has been stated many many threads ago. LOL

BBM

If he payed 14 days in advance and again for two days late upon returning w/the coffees, why did the receptionist get alarmed and went up to his room to collect yet another two days late in rent?

Does anyone have a timeline from when he first started renting that hotelroom, including the 14 days. Which date would it be if he was yet again two days late.

ugh! :banghead:

back to catching up!

 

[sunsetbeach]

Earlier it was discussed about the Holloway family asking the Peruvian justice system to take what happened to Natalee into consideration when sentencing Joran. Several posts were made re: how any testimony about Natalee could be introduced to the court since Joran was not tried or convicted of anything in Natalee's disappearance. I posted that one of the lawyers on NG (at least I believe it was on NG - by now I have listened to so many talking heads they are all blurring into one)stated that witnesses can testify to past behaviors against a defendant, and the judges on the three judge panel will take the testimony into consideration and decide whether it is credible and whether this info will affect the sentence imposed.

Patty G noted that Joran was never convicted. I stated the impression I got from the attorney on the program was that, under the law in Peru, the testimony about previous behaviors does not have to be about things for which the defendant was convicted.
I further stated I would do research and post any links found. Well, I searched for about 2 hours, and found numerous things about cases held in Peru, but could not find the specific statute, etc of Peruvian law that addressed this issue. So, I don't really know if what the attorney was saying is the way Peru does things. But I do know that , as hard as it is not to do, comparing what happens under Peruvian law to what is allowed under the US laws doesn't matter because the laws of the two countries, and the ways they are executed are very very different.

If anyone has found/does find anything about this topic please post. Would love to see the info. Thanks

That was Michael Griffith - International Attorney; Criminal Defense Attorney.
He was on several shows today via phone. Hope that helps.

 

[krowdkat]

BBM

If he payed 14 days in advance and again for two days late upon returning w/the coffees, why did the receptionist get alarmed and went up to his room to collect yet another two days late in rent?

Does anyone have a timeline from when he first started renting that hotelroom, including the 14 days. Which date would it be if he was yet again two days late.

ugh! :banghead:

back to catching up!

Because he prepaid 14 days through the 28th of May. He killed Stephany on Sunday, May 30th. So when he went down again after buying coffee he caught up for May 29 and 30th or through current before he fled. He didn't pay for Monday and Tuesday while Stephany lay dead on the floor of room 309.

 

[Kateyes]

I see that the hotel where he was staying, offers a complimentary breakfast. Why would he make a point of going out of the hotel to get 2 coffees if not to establish a timeline for Stephany's murder.

Why would someone who walks ahead of Stephany, doesn't even hold the door to his room open for her - do her the favour of providing coffee for breakfast. It strikes me that his usual method of operation, after getting whatever it was he was after (sex, money etc) would be just to kick the person out. That is if they were lucky enough to escape unscathed.

After spending a few hours with him, it would have been apparent that he was no gentleman, and if he did leave the room, Stephany, if not drugged (or deceased) would have got out of there as soon as possible, not taken the time, to do a search on his (probably password protected) laptop. She could do her search after she had left there. In any case, I don't think he would not have left someone he had just met, in his room with all his belongings (money, passport, laptop etc).

I think Stephany was probably drugged shortly after she entered the room, and if by any chance the laptop shows that a search was made on him, then the sick ****** did it himself, and possibly showed her who he really was, when she was in no state to leave the room.

This guy should never ever get out of prison, as long as he lives. He is a cold blooded serial killer and that won't change.

Dion, I believe that Joran, like any classic sociopath, can be very charming, usually for the purpose of getting something they want. So, I think it is possible that he was a seemingly "gentleman" until Stephany did something to enrage him. And then the flip switches, and the uncontrollable psychotic rage in unleashed, revealing the monster underneath. Tragically, this is how Stephany met her death. There is no way to predict just what will "set off" the psychotic rage in a sociopath. If it had not been the computer, if the story Joran has told is true, it most likely could have been any other little thing. JMHO

 

[Wings Of Light]

Does anyone have a timeline from when he first started renting that hotelroom, including the 14 days. Which date would it be if he was yet again two days late.

Look at the timeline on the previous page 27.

Some articles say, paraphrasing, he had been staying there since he arrived on the 14th.

But I read many more places, and found it more credible, that he checked into the hotel on the 16th and paid for 14 nights. This would fit with the missing 2 days, which is what prompted them to go in the room.

 

[Wings Of Light]

Because he prepaid 14 days through the 28th of May. He killed Stephany on Sunday, May 30th. So when he went down again after buying coffee he caught up for May 29 and 30th or through current before he fled. He didn't pay for Monday and Tuesday while Stephany lay dead on the floor of room 309.

This is incorrect.

They discovered the body very early morning (~12am) on June 2nd. Not the 30th.

 

[sunsetbeach]

This is true. However, this report was coming from a local Peruvian paper. The journalist there are not getting the story 3 and 4th hand. Plus, I'm sure police have video from the convenience store and probably timed stamped receipts from the register.

And now we also know that Joran was caught on camera leaving Stephany in room 309 three times instead of two. 1) to get coffee 2) to go down to the front desk to pay for late days 3) to flee to Santiago.

Thus cutting down the time frame he had to fight, kill, clean up, pack, compose himself and flee to around 20 minutes if he killed her sometime after he bought the coffee.

BBM

Yeah if that is true I bet he used HER money to pay that bill. I think he took her there to rob her. It's the only thing that makes sense (to me) because she was not raped and her money and jewelry are missing.
He lost most of his money at the casino and she won and he knew it. He needed money and saw his chance to take advantage of her.

 

[krowdkat]

This is incorrect.

They discovered the body very early morning (~12am) on June 2nd. Not the 30th.

You're misunderstanding what I wrote. Sunday was May 30th. Stephany lay on the floor for 2 days after May 30th. Joran didn't pay for June 1st or June 2nd, prompting the maid to go up to the door on June 2nd.

He back paid for May 29th and May 30th for which he was past due, after buying coffee on Sunday, May 30th.

 

[Melanie]

BBM

If he payed 14 days in advance and again for two days late upon returning w/the coffees, why did the receptionist get alarmed and went up to his room to collect yet another two days late in rent?

Does anyone have a timeline from when he first started renting that hotelroom, including the 14 days. Which date would it be if he was yet again two days late.

ugh! :banghead:

back to catching up!

THANKS TO WINGS OF LIGHT! YOU ARE THE BEST!! :woohoo:

Hotel timeline defined below:

May 14th
Leaves Colombia ()
Arrives in Lima, Peru ()
May have Checked into Hotel TAC - Conflicting reports. - This date is less credible than may 16th.

May 16th
Joran checks in to Hotel TAC, and prepays for 14 Nights. (11)

May 30th
Surveillance video shows Joran and Stephany playing poker at the same table, and Stephany winning $1700. (10)
5:15am - Leaves Atlantic City Casino (1)
5:20am - Arrives at Hotel Tac Lobby (1)
5:31am - Leaves Hotel Tac Lobby towards room 309 (2,3)
5:33am - Enters Room (2,3)
Goes to gas station/supermarket [?max] to buy coffee and bread
*Stephany uses his computer and finds emails relating to Natalee Holloway (5)
Returns From Getting Coffee at ?max (1)
Stephany confronts him about emails, they fight.
8:11am - Murder Takes Place (1)
[8:20am (7)]

8:56am - JVS Leaves Hotel Tac With All of His and Her belongings (1,3)
Takes a taxi to Peru/Chile border. (13)

June 1st
11pm - Hotel TAC receives call from someone looking for vadersloot. Call was forwarded but noone answered. (8)

June 2nd
~12am - Hotel Receptionist notices Joran owes money for 2 nights, goes up to the room, and knocked on the door. Noone answered, but she heard the television blaring and assumed he was sleeping. She spoke with someone, presumably her manager, and he said to use a spare key to go in. When she went in, she discovered the body. Stephany was wearing only red panties and a black t-shirt, but was half covered with a piece of white clothing. The receptionist turned off the TV and lights on her way out. (8)
Joran Enters Chile On Foot - Customs Paperwork (10)
Stays in a hotel in Santiago. Leaves his credit cards there. (6 pg. 2)

 

[Kateyes]

That was Michael Griffith - International Attorney; Criminal Defense Attorney.
He was on several shows today via phone. Hope that helps.

Thanks, and I do remember seeing him. I was trying to find documented something in the Peru Penal Code to link to for Patti G, as she stated Joran had not been convicted of anything re: Natalee, and my take on what Mr. Griffith said was that the testimony about past bad acts did not have to be strictly about convictions. In the US the defense attorney would be able to get this type of testimony stricken or barred from ever happening. Peru, on the other hand, is another country with totally different laws. I am glad you saw this, and if you happen to come across something citing the Perivian law's stand on this, please link it for me. I tried for several hours, and went through much reading, but nothing really addressed where in the Peru Penal Code this is allowed. Thanks much!

 

[krowdkat]

BBM

Yeah if that is true I bet he used HER money to pay that bill. I think he took her there to rob her. It's the only thing that makes sense (to me) because she was not raped and her money and jewelry are missing.
He lost most of his money at the casino and she won and he knew it. He needed money and saw his chance to take advantage of her.

Police reports released yesterday said she was found dead with her jewlry still on her body. IIRC. But no money was found on her or in the room.