NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #34

[Meagain]

I was searching around and found this MSNBC article from 10/11.

"A reporter saw what appeared to be remnants of clothes among burned branches from the fire at the house."

??? Has this been echoed anywhere else? It just struck me because I personally haven't seen this mentioned before.

EDIT - Sorry, here's the link from 10/11

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39617740/ns/us_news-life/

 

[KikiWanBaniki]

Crank can do that to you. I don't know whether that's what they were into, but she's sure displaying that kind of damage to her body and appearance.

In terms of dragging/carrying a body. Also keep in mind that if drugs are involved all bets are off.

I have also read that crystal meth is often 'cut' with PCP, which is reputed to increase a person's strength to an amazing degree. (I've heard this used to be in some LE training materials,but don't have anything concrete to verify offhand, so JMOO for now)

 

[grayjay]

I was not asked to not take photos. All LE was very aware of what I was doing. If they did not want me to take photographs, they would have asked me not to and probably confiscated my camera.

In fact, I had someone from local LE to contact me about some of the pictures. I asked at that time if anyone had a problem, and they had no problem with it. Of course, it was one person that said this and also said no one else they know of had said anything about it.

I have not posted all of the photos because some were extremely heart-wrenching watching these men at work. Maybe later will be appropriate to bring them out.

:dance: I'm glad you took the photos, and glad they were fine with it. A nice place to live! I'm pretty sure we couldn't get away with it in some places. You're lucky, I'm just sayin. One time I got stopped just for taking a photo of a total wrecked car. I'm just a wee bit jealous?

 

[Kat]

Okay let me clarify LOL.

I do not at this time think that EB was solely involved with moving and/or disposing of Zahra.

I do think that there is a very strong possibility that AB was involved with at least the cover up and moving and/or disposing of Zahra. (I'm not ready, myself, to state that as beyond a shadow of a doubt on open forum as my opinion, I'm still holding off but that's just me and the way I roll haha )

But I don't think that EB couldn't have moved Zahra alone based on:
1. The fact she is female
2. The fact she is middle aged
3. The fact she is overweight
4. The fact she may be out of shape.

Those 4 arguments I do disagree with. IMHO yes she could have acted alone. IMHO she probably didn't.

JMHO.

 

[Meagain]

But I don't think that EB couldn't have moved Zahra alone based on:
1. The fact she is female
2. The fact she is middle aged
3. The fact she is overweight
4. The fact she may be out of shape.

Those 4 arguments I do disagree with. IMHO yes she could have acted alone. IMHO she probably didn't.

JMHO.

snipped....

But.... 5. She appears to be an amazon type. She's not exactly petite. Looks big boned. I think she's capable physically. But I don't think she acted alone and frankly may not have disposed of her. For all we know she covered for someone else - hubby?

 

[froginTtown]

Me too Panthera to be honest about it

me three....

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Crank can do that to you. I don't know whether that's what they were into, but she's sure displaying that kind of damage to her body and appearance.

ITA

Physical (adverse) Effects of Meth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Effects_of_metamphetamine.png

Psychological effects [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine[/ame]
Psychological effects can include euphoria, anxiety, increased libido, alertness, concentration, energy, self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability, irritability, aggression, psychosomatic disorders, psychomotor agitation, grandiosity, excessive feelings of power and invincibility, repetitive and obsessive behaviors, paranoia, and with chronic and/or high doses, amphetamine psychosis can occur.[30][36]

If it turns out these two were using Meth, I think that will go a long way to explain what happened here and why.

If only EB was a user AB would have known, and should not have left Zahra with her. No matter how you dice it, AB is also culpable for his daughters death.

 

[impatientredhead]

She might be overweight, but that doesn't mean she's not strong. I'm about the same size and build, and quite a lot older, and I could lift 85 lbs. without too much effort. I could drag it easily. I don't know whether I could actually carry it, but to drag it into a car on something like that gray tarp, and then drag it out and roll it off -- piece of cake.

I'm not saying I think she did it, only that it's a bad idea to assume she isn't capable of it.

I am not basing my opinion that she is out of shape on being overweight.

I weight 95lbs and could transport 85 lbs if I had to, so I already said it was not impossible. But I do not see this specific woman going through that labor and effort (and being totally unseen doing so).

Getting her out of the house and into the vehicle and then out of the vehicle would be the most difficult part. Lifting an dead weight out of the trunk is very difficult.

Of course I may be wrong, we don't know, but I have a hard time seeing her do it and do it undetected, especially by the man that lives in the house with her.

That is my only point is the scenario of her doing all of this work, body, bed, disposal, burial, dump trips etc.... by herself AND Adam not knowing something was going on in his house is impossible.

 

[Kat]

snipped....

But.... 5. She appears to be an amazon type. She's not exactly petite. Looks big boned. I think she's capable physically. But I don't think she acted alone and frankly may not have disposed of her. For all we know she covered for someone else - hubby?

Meagain to be honest. I don't have enough info about either AB or EB to speculate which one or both are responsible for the homicide of Zahra.

Or the disposal

Or the coverup...

I just don't. But I respect anyone else's opinion.

ETA: but I do have enough info to theorize that one or both are responsible.

 

[agathawannabe]

She might be overweight, but that doesn't mean she's not strong. I'm about the same size and build, and quite a lot older, and I could lift 85 lbs. without too much effort. I could drag it easily. I don't know whether I could actually carry it, but to drag it into a car on something like that gray tarp, and then drag it out and roll it off -- piece of cake.

I'm not saying I think she did it, only that it's a bad idea to assume she isn't capable of it.

Totally agree with this.

EB had lost considerable weight. Her muscles were (and maybe still are) conditioned to carry that extra weight on her own frame.

I lost just over 100 lbs in barely a year myself. I now wear "average" sized clothes.

My husband laughs at me sometimes because I have a little trick I do to give myself a reminder not to start putting weight back on. When we're in Walmart, sometimes I'll stop by the pet food aisle and sling a 50-lb bag of dog food over each shoulder - and say to myself "I never want to carry this much fat on my body again!"

ETA: Oh, btw, I'm 42 yrs.

 

[essies]

So I wonder how they got EB to admit to writing the ransom note so quickly!:waitasec:They must have presented her with some reason why they knew there wasn't a kidnapper. Was the envelope from their bill, did they have her fingerprints? If her fingerprints were on the bill and it was her bill that would explain the prints. She seems surprised or upset about the arrest-didn't she see it coming?

And did she stop talking as soon as she made that confession? I'm surprised she didn't finger someone else and say she was forced to write it. But, then I'm sure there is much we don't know yet.

 

[xheraldina]

snipped

snipped

How did EB go from this in May to what she looked like when she was arrested? She aged 20 years IMO. Drugs? Guilt? How long has Zahra really been gone?

That’s exactly what I thought when I saw this picture. Loosing that much weight in 6 months almost incredible!
:waitasec:

 

[panthera]

I am not basing my opinion that she is out of shape on being overweight.

I weight 95lbs and could transport 85 lbs if I had to, so I already said it was not impossible. But I do not see this specific woman going through that labor and effort (and being totally unseen doing so).

Getting her out of the house and into the vehicle and then out of the vehicle would be the most difficult part. Lifting an dead weight out of the trunk is very difficult.

Of course I may be wrong, we don't know, but I have a hard time seeing her do it and do it undetected, especially by the man that lives in the house with her.

That is my only point is the scenario of her doing all of this work, body, bed, disposal, burial, dump trips etc.... by herself AND Adam not knowing something was going on in his house is impossible.

BBM

This is exactly why I believe he was involved. Yes, I could see her getting Zahra's body out of the house, into one of the two vehicles, removing it, and leaving it wherever.......all while he was at work. But how would she explain where Zahra was if he were to come home and go into her room and not find her there? If he weren't "in on" what happened he would've had to at least agreed to cover up for her afterward. The entire early morning fire, ransom note, and his subsequent 911 call hours later it totally inconsistent with someone who was totally in the dark. MOO

 

[diphi]

I am not basing my opinion that she is out of shape on being overweight.

I weight 95lbs and could transport 85 lbs if I had to, so I already said it was not impossible. But I do not see this specific woman going through that labor and effort (and being totally unseen doing so).

Getting her out of the house and into the vehicle and then out of the vehicle would be the most difficult part. Lifting an dead weight out of the trunk is very difficult.

Of course I may be wrong, we don't know, but I have a hard time seeing her do it and do it undetected, especially by the man that lives in the house with her.

That is my only point is the scenario of her doing all of this work, body, bed, disposal, burial, dump trips etc.... by herself AND Adam not knowing something was going on in his house is impossible.

Not sure if this was mentioned recently - thread is moving too fast for me to keep up, but we've all experienced the power of adrenaline at some point in our lives. Who knows, maybe hers was really pumping.

Still, I tend to agree that this particular woman could not pull it all off by herself. There also seems to be quite an element of chaos. Speculation only and IMHO.

 

[vjlaw]

I am not basing my opinion that she is out of shape on being overweight.

I weight 95lbs and could transport 85 lbs if I had to, so I already said it was not impossible. But I do not see this specific woman going through that labor and effort (and being totally unseen doing so).

Getting her out of the house and into the vehicle and then out of the vehicle would be the most difficult part. Lifting an dead weight out of the trunk is very difficult.

Of course I may be wrong, we don't know, but I have a hard time seeing her do it and do it undetected, especially by the man that lives in the house with her.

That is my only point is the scenario of her doing all of this work, body, bed, disposal, burial, dump trips etc.... by herself AND Adam not knowing something was going on in his house is impossible.

I agree. She writes bad checks to get money. Doesn't seem to have had any kind of job that requires work. I can't see a person who seems to have done any kind of labor to take it up suddenly. I think she would have gone a route she is used to, as easily as possible. And of course, anything is always possible including any of several scenarios I can think of. jmo

 

[KikiWanBaniki]

Totally agree with this.

EB had lost considerable weight. Her muscles were (and maybe still are) conditioned to carry that extra weight on her own frame.

I lost just over 100 lbs in barely a year myself. I now wear "average" sized clothes.

My husband laughs at me sometimes because I have a little trick I do to give myself a reminder not to start putting weight back on. When we're in Walmart, sometimes I'll stop by the pet food aisle and sling a 50-lb bag of dog food over each shoulder - and say to myself "I never want to carry this much fat on my body again!"

ETA: Oh, btw, I'm 42 yrs.

Congrats! And I love you're dog food trick!

I used to be a CNA at a nursing home, and I've seen people of all shapes and sizes lift/carry, etc. people of all other shapes and sizes and carying degrees of ability to bear weight, including none...FWIW

And I agree about the recent weight loss and ability to lift/carry more as a result. JMHO

 

[Reba]

snipped

Has there ever been any mention of where AB is while Zahra is getting her new hearing aids?

 

[panthera]

ITA

Physical (adverse) Effects of Meth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Effects_of_metamphetamine.png

Psychological effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine
Psychological effects can include euphoria, anxiety, increased libido, alertness, concentration, energy, self-esteem, self-confidence, sociability, irritability, aggression, psychosomatic disorders, psychomotor agitation, grandiosity, excessive feelings of power and invincibility, repetitive and obsessive behaviors, paranoia, and with chronic and/or high doses, amphetamine psychosis can occur.[30][36]

If it turns out these two were using Meth, I think that will go a long way to explain what happened here and why.

If only EB was a user AB would have known, and should not have left Zahra with her. No matter how you dice it, AB is also culpable for his daughters death.

Rapid weight loss would also be included with someone using a lot. Irritability and aggression could also be side-effects that may have led to Zahra's death, but of course that would be true of any type of amphetamine abuse, imo. MOO

 

[bellyup]

Not by herself,not as dead weight, not for any length of distance.

I have always and still believe Adam disposed of the body.

As a vet tech, I carried bodies in the 100 + lb range with no problem at all (both deceased and under anesthetic) and I'm a MUCH MUCH smaller woman than EB is. There is NO DOUBT that she could have moved Zahra herself IMO.

Not to mention I've seen women with special needs children that can pick up and carry a full grown boy who is flailing, fighting, screaming, etc.

 

[thisjusthurtsmyheart]

I agree 110%! I think that is exactly what drug that I assumed that it would be and because eb lost so much weight and ab teeth just seem to be rotting out of his head. I know that it is all speculation but IMHO that is exactly what I came up with. Meth is not anything to play with when comes to the oral health and teeth. It is just gross!