Desiree says Terri had “Extreme hatred for Kyron"

[BringKyronHome]

This is all to much to sort out & make sense of. And maybe it's impossible for a rational person to do so...but a couple things that strike me...

If Terri was asking D to take Kyron back, and Des settled with a "it's only a little limit pushing no worries, or he says the same things at our house" excuse from Kaine...I can understand Terri getting upset with D for not believing her, or trying harder or whatever. Who knows what she said to Kaine BEFORE picking up the phone & calling D. I would bet she tried...unless she already knew it would fall on deaf ears.

The other thing that really sits weird with me, and maybe because I have some personal experience on this subject...an alcoholic drinks to escape. Some drunks get violent, generally males, but more often than not, drinking is to avoid reality.

It seems to me that she WAS solving her problem. She couldn't deal so she took frequent trips to another demension to escape it. Her drinking does not sound to me like a support for her possible 'plan' it sounds more to me like pushed up against the wall (whether real or imagined) she found her escape without needing to do more.

It would be easier for me to believe she harmed him, even if she fantasized about it, if she were not drinking to the point of passing out.

Especially as a plan. I'll tell you I heard some pretty ridiculous ideas while facing the drunk in my youth - some seriously warped & outdated excuses for the continuous drinking...not to mention some pretty abusive behaviors WHILE drunk...but when sober...there was little energy or ability to even think. It was more or less, get up, do this, do that, barely interact, and wait for an acceptable time to pour that first glass for the day. This report of her being always 'tired'...supports the drunk report to me...but it just doesn't make sense to me that in this condition she could plot & plan and follow through...maybe she wasn't as adicted, but my recollection is more like...the only persistent thought that could be carried through the day is: when can I have that drink...all else is too much. Keeping busy is good...going to a few stores, going to the gym, anything to fill the day...but whatever the errand, do all that is humanly possible to avoid interaction (liek volunteering).

Whatever though...I'm sure there is much more that we are going to learn...in the end, I agree, it does sound as though Terri was overwhelmed with things and not handling them well at all. And it likely added to her sadness/frustration/exhaustion/whatever that she could reach out and really get little relief...it's sad on way too many levels!

I too would like to see the replies.

 

[JSR]

What would any of us do if a friend told us they wanted to hurt their stepson? That they felt extreme hatred for a child in their care?

I sincerely hope that LE also has email replies from Terri's friends asking her to seek help !..it's odd that none of the friends signaled to Kaine that there was a serious problem in his house. Or maybe they did?

Finally, it seems like Terri was, in a sense, screaming for help - only no one had all the pieces to put that together. She was telling Desiree that she thought D & TY should have Kyron live with them, so Desiree knew to some extent that things weren't good. Kaine knew her relationship with Kyron was "strained" and that in fact her relationship with all the kids was suffering. Her email friends knew she harbored anger and hatred for Kyron and said she wanted to hurt him.

It seems more and more like Terri was telling people she was in bad, bad shape as a caregiver, but each person only had a small slice of that and likely underestimated the reality.

Exactly. I think the bolded line above is key. Terri only told each person what she wanted them to know, in my opinion. With everything taken together and now being able to look back on everything in it's totality it was clear Terri was a ticking time bomb. And in my opinion Terri is a dangerous woman and is a danger to all who are around her. She's NOT sick in my opinion. This is not the work of postpartum depression. Terri is just plain narcissistic and evil, in my opinion.

Unfortunately it looks like the world has another Casey Anthony on its hands. Only this time Terri is far more intelligent than Casey and it looks like she's going to get away with murder.

 

[desquire]

So much for giving Terri the excuse of "venting."

Who "vents" by talking about hurting a 7 year old? How disgusting...actually words fail me here. Terri must have some sensitive set of friends that they could stomach this. Though I am reminded of DeDe's "hilarity" at the suffering of a dog in her care. Maybe these people find each other. They enjoy the idea of pain inflicted on the helpless.

Of course, Terri bragged in the sexts about how strong she was, etc.

This is a 7year old! What was she imagining doing to the child?

When these are released...and they will be...I wonder how anyone will be able to clean up after Facebook Terri then?

Call me disgusting then and just about every other parent I know. Just last night I told my son I was going to smack him upside the head if he didn't clean his room. This morning I heard my secretary say that she was going to kill her daughter when she got home. Over the weekend a woman told me that her 3 year old could be such a manipulative little snot. Maybe Terri's statements were more serious than these, maybe they weren't. I'm sure that if I were Desiree, looking at such statements about Kyron through a prism of unbearable pain and loss, I would be hurt and appalled by them. But I'm not Desiree and I haven't seen the e-mails, so I prefer to save my righteous indignation for those things that I know to be, not those that I merely imagine to be.

 

[Chablis]

Call me disgusting then and just about every other parent I know. Just last night I told my son I was going to smack him upside the head if he didn't clean his room. This morning I heard my secretary say that she was going to kill her daughter when she got home. Over the weekend a woman told me that her 3 year old could be such a manipulative little snot. Maybe Terri's statements were more serious than these, maybe they weren't. I'm sure that if I were Desiree, looking at such statements about Kyron through a prism of unbearable pain and loss, I would be hurt and appalled by them. But I'm not Desiree and I haven't seen the e-mails, so I prefer to save my righteous indignation for those things that I know to be, not those that I merely imagine to be.

Do any of the people you heard say all this stuff have a missing child that has not been seen in months?

 

[pufnstuf]

Call me disgusting then and just about every other parent I know. Just last night I told my son I was going to smack him upside the head if he didn't clean his room. This morning I heard my secretary say that she was going to kill her daughter when she got home. Over the weekend a woman told me that her 3 year old could be such a manipulative little snot. Maybe Terri's statements were more serious than these, maybe they weren't. I'm sure that if I were Desiree, looking at such statements about Kyron through a prism of unbearable pain and loss, I would be hurt and appalled by them. But I'm not Desiree and I haven't seen the e-mails, so I prefer to save my righteous indignation for those things that I know to be, not those that I merely imagine to be.

Is your child missing?

Is your secretary's child missing?

Is the woman from the weekend's child missing?

See the difference?

 

[Jo in Calif]

Narcissistic and evil, not a very good defense strategy, but it sure is there. I can just hear Terri now. "What in the he77 was wrong with these people?" "Didn't I send enough red flags out to them?" "Kaine should have seen what was coming, I gave him enough hints how unhappy I was." "I sent J away, couldn't get along with him." "Desiree should have taken her crappy little kid back." "The person I sent the emails to, telling them how much I hated Kyron and didn't want him in my life and how much I hated Desiree, should have told someone." "The people I vented to about Kaine should have told him." "It's everyone eases fault, no one could see what was happening, I had no other choice, I had to get rid of the source of my unhappiness, no one else would."

 

[ami]

Call me disgusting then and just about every other parent I know. Just last night I told my son I was going to smack him upside the head if he didn't clean his room. This morning I heard my secretary say that she was going to kill her daughter when she got home. Over the weekend a woman told me that her 3 year old could be such a manipulative little snot. Maybe Terri's statements were more serious than these, maybe they weren't. I'm sure that if I were Desiree, looking at such statements about Kyron through a prism of unbearable pain and loss, I would be hurt and appalled by them. But I'm not Desiree and I haven't seen the e-mails, so I prefer to save my righteous indignation for those things that I know to be, not those that I merely imagine to be.

But if you wrote those things in an email, I don't think I'd characterize any of them as "extreme hatred". More like, "she was annoyed with the child".

I mean we haven't read the emails. If Terri wrote, "If he breaks one more of my favorite plates, I'm gonna kill him!" I don't know if LE would think, "Aha, she wanted to kill him! Case closed!" and Desiree would cry about it and characterize it as extreme hatred. In other words, I think most parents can sympathize with the offhand comment about sometimes not liking your child, too bad you can't send 'em back, they're being a snot, you're going to kill them if they don't remember to whatever.

But I think LE took the emails seriously. I somehow doubt they'd show the emails in a meeting with the parents if the emails were along the normal, annoyed or frustrated parenting lines and just happened to be unfortunately worded considering what may have happened to Kyron later. I don't know. It's true that Desiree is likely to see almost anything as a sign that terri is guilty. However keep in mind that whatever she read made it past her mother-hope that Kyron was fine and being held somewhere, and took her to a place where she had to acknowledge that he might be seriously hurt or dead. I just don't think an offhand "grrr... i'm going to kill him when I get home!" cry of frustration would have had that impact.

It will be interesting to see the emails.

 

[pufnstuf]

Maybe I'm different. I've never called my son an ugly name to anyone. I've never told my son that I'd physically harm him, not even as a threat. I've never said that I want to kill my child, not even in jest.

I really loathe personal anecdotes on the forums here, because responses to them come across as a personal attacks. It's hard to counter someone who relays their personal experiences without sounding like you're attacking them. No personal attack is intended when I say this, though: I just really have to believe that there are a great many parents out there who threaten their children with physical violence, call their children ugly names, or say that they want to kill their children. I can honestly say that none of my friends or family have ever said such things to me about their own children, just like they don't say racist, sexist, or homophobic things to me.

Maybe it's because they know that I wouldn't approve, and I'd look at them like they were crazy.

 

[desquire]

Is your child missing?

Is your secretary's child missing?

Is the woman from the weekend's child missing?

See the difference?

No. I don't see the difference. The comment my secretary made today is something any parent dealing with the everyday frustrations of raising kids says. If, God forbid, anything happened to her daughter a few months from now, I would not be thinking back on that comment and saying, "Oh my God, she must be responsible, how could I have missed the signs!" Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[pufnstuf]

No. I don't see the difference. The comment my secretary made today is something any parent dealing with the everyday frustrations of raising kids says. If, God forbid, anything happened to her daughter a few months from now, I would not be thinking back on that comment and saying, "Oh my God, she must be responsible, how could I have missed the signs!" Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Again, this is why I hate anecdotes.

 

[BringKyronHome]

Do any of the people you heard say all this stuff have a missing child that has not been seen in months?

But how would those statement slook, IF GOD FORBID, months down the road they do go missing.

The point I think she is making, is that saying these things do not prove anything, because there are a lot of people that in their frustration make statements...the statement (which we haven't seen btw) are no proof of anything.

It just doesn't make sense to turn around and say now that he is missing, that those e-mails meant something...because at the time no one reacted, in the same way that people brush off the statements made by those of us that say similar things and don't have a missing child.

There are so many things that we all do that could look completely distorted through, as put so well, a prism of pain...and likelwise through one of suspicion...but it doesn't equate to evidence.

 

[cluciano63]

It is impossible for me to talk about e-mails we have not seen.

I hope that LE had solid reasons for showing them to Desiree and that somehow, their doing so creates real movement in this case.

 

[Chablis]

It is impossible for me to talk about e-mails we have not seen.

I hope that LE had solid reasons for showing them to Desiree and that somehow, their doing so creates real movement in this case.

Its not impossible to talk about the emails, they exist, whats impossible is to pretend they are once again, dulled down and taken out of context to make Terri look bad. I think the LE are preparing the parents for a murder charge on Terri, they need to be braced and gently shown reality, thats just compassion.

Ya know, Drew Peterson was talked and talked and talked about for MONTHS before he was arrested, so just because it hasn't been an immediate arrest, it does not mean its never going to happen, because all indicators are showing thats where its going.

 

[desquire]

But if you wrote those things in an email, I don't think I'd characterize any of them as "extreme hatred". More like, "she was annoyed with the child".

I mean we haven't read the emails. If Terri wrote, "If he breaks one more of my favorite plates, I'm gonna kill him!" I don't know if LE would think, "Aha, she wanted to kill him! Case closed!" and Desiree would cry about it and characterize it as extreme hatred. In other words, I think most parents can sympathize with the offhand comment about sometimes not liking your child, too bad you can't send 'em back, they're being a snot, you're going to kill them if they don't remember to whatever.

But I think LE took the emails seriously. I somehow doubt they'd show the emails in a meeting with the parents if the emails were along the normal, annoyed or frustrated parenting lines and just happened to be unfortunately worded considering what may have happened to Kyron later. I don't know. It's true that Desiree is likely to see almost anything as a sign that terri is guilty. However keep in mind that whatever she read made it past her mother-hope that Kyron was fine and being held somewhere, and took her to a place where she had to acknowledge that he might be seriously hurt or dead. I just don't think an offhand "grrr... i'm going to kill him when I get home!" cry of frustration would have had that impact.

It will be interesting to see the emails.

Everything you said was pretty much my point. Until we know what the e-mails said, I'm not jumping to any conclusions.

Regarding the line bolded by me, the police only should have shown the e-mails if they had a legitimate investigative purpose in doing so, otherwise it would have been a breach of confidentiality and police ethics at the least. My assumption, then, is that to the extent they were shown to Desiree it was because the e-mails mentioned her or events connected with her and the discussion was necessary for the purpose of verifying facts related in the e-mails or understanding the context.

 

[grandmaj]

I wouldn't say I hated or wanted to hurt an animal let alone my children or grandchildren. That is uncalled for. If we as adults cannot control our anger how are children to learn from us. If Terri said it and was just being flip which I highly doubt, and now the child goes missing..... really not a good place for her to be now is it?

It is kinda sorta like asking a Landscaper to kill her husband for a large sum of money.

When you start compiling them in bunches I think we get an insight into a person's intentions and dangerous mindset.

 

[Chablis]

Everything you said was pretty much my point. Until we know what the e-mails said, I'm not jumping to any conclusions.

Regarding the line bolded by me, the police only should have shown the e-mails if they had a legitimate investigative purpose in doing so, otherwise it would have been a breach of confidentiality and police ethics at the least. My assumption, then, is that to the extent they were shown to Desiree it was because the e-mails mentioned her or events connected with her and the discussion was necessary for the purpose of verifying facts related in the e-mails or understanding the context.

The police are trying to find Kyron, its unethical to plant evidence, its unethical to bribe a witness, it is NOT unethical to show parents of a MISSING CHILD, what the defacto suspect said about him that indicates malice! Terri is NOT more important than Kyron or some Queen that needs to be bowed down and given all this courtesy!

 

[stmarysmead]

No. I don't see the difference. The comment my secretary made today is something any parent dealing with the everyday frustrations of raising kids says. If, God forbid, anything happened to her daughter a few months from now, I would not be thinking back on that comment and saying, "Oh my God, she must be responsible, how could I have missed the signs!" Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

If this is the entire substance of these emails, and any good attorney (and Terri has top notch representation) could so easily dismiss her words in a court of law...I would doubt that LE would call in the grieving parents to a special meeting show them such fluff.

LE has some experience with how juries react. The type of comments you describe...most professionals would understand to be useless in court. So if there is just "Oh, gosh darn..I could kill this kid."...these emails would have no evidential value.

I have faith in the common sense of LE and the DAs who are building this case. I think it's demeaning to THEM to think they would take minor commentary from some poor frustrated housewife and jump up and shout..."CALL IN THE PARENTS! BOMBSHELL in this email!"

And IMO, i think most of us can recognize the difference between "extreme hatred" and momentary frustration. Most of us know venting and we know something inappropriate bordering on evil.

I trust the professionals building this case can recognize those differences too. And, if not...Houze...attorney extraordinaire...could release the emails for Terri...and show us just how silly and "ordinary" these emails are.

Let's wait and see.

 

[SurfieTX]

But how would those statement slook, IF GOD FORBID, months down the road they do go missing.

The point I think she is making, is that saying these things do not prove anything, because there are a lot of people that in their frustration make statements...the statement (which we haven't seen btw) are no proof of anything.

It just doesn't make sense to turn around and say now that he is missing, that those e-mails meant something...because at the time no one reacted, in the same way that people brush off the statements made by those of us that say similar things and don't have a missing child.

There are so many things that we all do that could look completely distorted through, as put so well, a prism of pain...and likelwise through one of suspicion...but it doesn't equate to evidence.

As it has been pointed out by many astute posters here, I think it is more about the aggregate, rather than the pieces. LE, I would think, is going to be searching for patterns. In one of the other threads, after analyzing what was said, it became quite clear to me that 2009 was the beginning of Terri's true feelings, issues and problems all meshing together and percolating. So, I think in that vein, the emails might shed some light on her mental status in terms of who she emailed, how often, what the contents were in relation to her "true" home life for LE (and I think Kaine, Desiree, and Tony as well as J and Terri's friends were probably pretty forthright with LE in a private setting).

Really, there's nothing more powerful than someone's own words. The trick is putting them in context. And I agree with posters who have pointed out that Terri divvied her words out to those around her, and no one was able to put them in reality context at that time.

Hindsight - both a blessing and a curse.

 

[stmarysmead]

Everything you said was pretty much my point. Until we know what the e-mails said, I'm not jumping to any conclusions.

Regarding the line bolded by me, the police only should have shown the e-mails if they had a legitimate investigative purpose in doing so, otherwise it would have been a breach of confidentiality and police ethics at the least. My assumption, then, is that to the extent they were shown to Desiree it was because the e-mails mentioned her or events connected with her and the discussion was necessary for the purpose of verifying facts related in the e-mails or understanding the context.

The victim's Mother described these emails to us, the public. That is hardly "jumping to conclusions." I have no reason to not consider Desiree credible.

If the emails had an "investigative purpose"...it would seem they are not extraneous normal Mommy-venting.

 

[Chablis]

The victim's Mother described these emails to us, the public. That is hardly "jumping to conclusions./"

And do you really think if they did not say what Desiree said they did, Houze and company would not have been out for blood, demanding retractions and would be using this to show how unfair everyone is being to Terri?

The silence is deafening..