Japan: 9.0 Earthquake-Tsunami-Nuclear Reactor Developments #2

[bessie]

History does repeat itself. Sacrifice in WW11 with the Japanese Kamakazi pilots crashing their planes into enemy targets.

That was my first thought, too, Scandi. A matter of honor?

 

[bessie]

Anderson Cooper just posted that they've finally found fuel and are now heading away from the affected area. Wow. He posted they were leaving two hours ago. I thought he'd be long gone by now.

http://twitter.com/#!/andersoncooper

 

[scandi]

That was my first thought, too, Scandi. A matter of honor?

You got me reading about that Bessie ;} "To the Japanese the tradition of death instead of defeat, capture, and perceived shame was deeply entrenched in Japanese military culture. . {snip} . . loyalty and honor until death" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze


I saw a Japanese reporter on CNN today telling how the Japanese are reacting to this tragedy as their culture dictates. They won't be looting, crying but rather will hold themselves together for all that being Japanese is.

Inside my mind I thought she was a bit biased, but softened on that. Look what is happening to her people and most likely will that hasn't happened just yet !!! I would be full of pride in my heritage too. Ya Ya

xox


Whoops ! My Wiki link won't work. I'll try and fix it.

 

[Nova]

History does repeat itself. Sacrifice in WW11 with the Japanese Kamakazi pilots crashing their planes into enemy targets.

Just to be fair, there were Americans manning guns, trying (often in vain) to stop kamikaze planes from hitting U.S. ships.

Nobody admires the Japanese more than I. (I actually published an article on their medieval theater/poetry and its concepts of honor.)

But sacrifice in WWII wasn't an exclusive Japanese commodity.

 

[scandi]

Anderson Cooper just posted that they've finally found fuel and are now heading away from the affected area. Wow. He posted they were leaving two hours ago. I thought he'd be long gone by now.

http://twitter.com/#!/andersoncooper

Hi Bessie, He does get into whatever humanitarian causes from world disasters, as they happen. I give him KUDOS. We had a poster here during the Scott Peterson case who worked for CNN and knew him well. I think he has developed into quite a major leauger in the broadcasting biz.

 

[Nova]

You got me reading about that Bessie ;} "To the Japanese the tradition of death instead of defeat, capture, and perceived shame was deeply entrenched in Japanese military culture. . {snip} . . loyalty and honor until death...."

To be fair, millions of American, English, Germans and especially Russians also died rather than surrender during that war.

I don't want to take anything away from the Japanese sense of honor and duty, especially not now when they are behaving so admirably under impossible conditions.

But let's don't over-romanticize the Japanese during WWII. Plenty of men and women died for their countries; the majority were not even Japanese.

 

[scandi]

Just to be fair, there were Americans manning guns, trying (often in vain) to stop kamikaze planes from hitting U.S. ships.

Nobody admires the Japanese more than I. (I actually published an article on their medieval theater/poetry and its concepts of honor.)

But sacrifice in WWII wasn't an exclusive Japanese commodity.

ITA with you Nova and do appreciate your thoughts and am all for being fair. I was trying to keep the politics out of my statement. After all we were the enemy. Two of my friends from HS lost their fathers in the war.

 

[Nova]

ITA with you Nova and do appreciate your thoughts and am all for being fair. I was trying to keep the politics out of my statement. After all we were the enemy. Two of my friends from HS lost their fathers in the war.

Japan and the U.S. have been allies since before I was born (and I just turned 57), so I have no problem giving them their due. I loved studying and researching Japanese culture and admire it very much.

I don't mean to take anything away from the willingness to sacrifice of kamikaze pilots, most of whom were very young and willing to die for the Emperor rather than disgrace their families by refusing to go.

But why were suicide missions even necessary?

Partly, it was because Japan was fighting a much larger country (the U.S.), one with millions more people and far greater industrial capacity. Japan simply couldn't keep up with the American ability to produce pilots and planes.

But partly it was because the same Japanese sense of honor that produced kamikaze pilots also tended to treat individuals as expendable. Japanese planes were highly maneuverable, but lacked the body army that kept air crews from being killed. Although Americans couldn't save every downed pilot, U.S. procedures called for every attempt to be made to do so; this reflected American value of the individual and individuality. Japanese procedures did not place the same emphasis on saving downed pilots.

Thus, by 1944, Japan was more or less out of experienced pilots, just as the U.S. Army and Navy air forces were reaching the height of their experience and skill. Japan was essentially forced to fall back on kamikaze flights because it lacked the experienced pilots to conduct an effective air war.

Bottom line: kamikaze sacrifice reflected Japanese sense of honor, but lack of experienced pilots did, too.

My point here isn't to kick the Japanese when they are down. On the contrary, I think they are greatly to be admired, particularly now when they are coping with so many disasters. At the same time, however, we should be careful when we admire their sense of civic duty; it has its downside.

 

[JBean]

Japanese authorities also today informed the IAEA at 04:50 CET that the spent fuel storage pond at the Unit 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is on fire and radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

 

[Nova]

Japanese authorities also today informed the IAEA at 04:50 CET that the spent fuel storage pond at the Unit 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is on fire and radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html

What's YOUR sense, J? Do we need to be concerned here in California or not?

 

[not_my_kids]

"We have no indication of fuel that is currently melting at this point," said James Lyons, director of the Safety at Nuclear Installations division at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...reactor-meltdown-iaea/articleshow/7707705.cms

 

[not_my_kids]

Japan's nuclear safety agency says a fire in a reactor at a crippled nuclear power plant in tsunami-ravaged northeastern Japan has been extinguished.
http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S2017667.shtml?cat=566

 

[scandi]

"We have no indication of fuel that is currently melting at this point," said James Lyons, director of the Safety at Nuclear Installations division at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...reactor-meltdown-iaea/articleshow/7707705.cms

Maybe it is only when the fuel like plutonium melts, that dangerous amounts of radiation is released. I think those are the rods housed in a concrete and steel bubble. I don't know enough to really post about this. Except the rods heat up the water which then steams creating energy and then the water is cooled and pumped to the rods again to repeat the process over and over.

 

[Melanie]

Nuclear meltdown in Japan probably would not threaten U.S. western coast, experts say

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-radiation-us-threat-20110314,0,6112226.story

First off, I don't like the word "probably". Probably should not be an option for us.

While this article poo-poo's the idea that we'll be affected, they are careful to put a disclaimer at the end:

Other experts said U.S. officials should have contingency plans for radiation exposure, such as the availability of iodine pills to counteract damage to the thyroid gland, which is vulnerable to radiation exposure.

“I think the chances of us having a major exposure here in the U.S. is not real high, but the problem is we still don’t know what’s happening,” said Dr. Ira Helfand, a member of the Physicians for Social Responsibility who also spoke at the news conference.

I sure wish someone would tell me, because right now I just want to bury my head in the sand.

Should we all start getting our supplies in order and buying Iodide tablets?

Nervous Nellie over here!

Mel

 

[not_my_kids]

Maybe it is only when the fuel like plutonium melts, that dangerous amounts of radiation is released. I think those are the rods housed in a concrete and steel bubble. I don't know enough to really post about this. Except the rods heat up the water which then steams creating energy and then the water is cooled and pumped to the rods again to repeat the process over and over.

That I don't know. Earlier it was stated that the risk from the spent rods was when they started to heat, as heating them would cause the radiation release.


I also don't completely trust the UN statements right now because they say that there is no indication of a meltdown...Um, do they mean besides the explosions, badly damaged containment shells and increased radiation? I can hardly see the Japanese government trying to panic their own people for no reason.

 

[i.b.nora]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...er-california-radiation-health-officials.html

'No danger at this time,' California health officials have been reassured

"State health officials kept close watch Monday on potential radioactive releases at Japanese nuclear plants, making conference calls to local and federal officials every few hours, ... "

"Jordan Scott, a spokesman for the California Emergency Management Agency, said nuclear experts also reassured officials in his office that, “there is no danger at this time.” Scott said they also have been told that, should a meltdown occur at one of Japan’s quake-damaged nuclear reactors, “it is highly unlikely that we would see any effects of it here.”"

much more...

 

[Melanie]

What's YOUR sense, J? Do we need to be concerned here in California or not?

There's been a run on iodide tablets in San Francisco (just google, as I would have to link to another forum). Maybe it was the great quake of San Francisco that is making them extra cautious.

Like you, I do want to know what the long term affects are for those on the West Coast.

I am so so sorry for those in Japan, and am heartbroken to hear that levels have increased in Tokyo already (CNN). This is all they need on top of everything else that has happened to them.

I'm praying for everyone right now.

Mel

 

[scandi]

Nuclear meltdown in Japan probably would not threaten U.S. western coast, experts say

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-radiation-us-threat-20110314,0,6112226.story

First off, I don't like the word "probably". Probably should not be an option for us.

While this article poo-poo's the idea that we'll be affected, they are careful to put a disclaimer at the end:

Other experts said U.S. officials should have contingency plans for radiation exposure, such as the availability of iodine pills to counteract damage to the thyroid gland, which is vulnerable to radiation exposure.

“I think the chances of us having a major exposure here in the U.S. is not real high, but the problem is we still don’t know what’s happening,” said Dr. Ira Helfand, a member of the Physicians for Social Responsibility who also spoke at the news conference.

I sure wish someone would tell me, because right now I just want to bury my head in the sand.

Should we all start getting our supplies in order and buying Iodine tablets?

Nervous Nellie over here!

Mel

Can one buy them by the tablet? I think it is potassium iodine. Maybe at a pharmacy, eh?

I think we're going to be safe Mel. It is our kids and their future families I worry about.

The fact there is no fail safe remedy set for when one has to call off the reactor employees in a situation like we have in Japan and let the reactors possibly melt down on their own is just crazy. You would think these agencies that control nuclear power would make that mandatory before giving a permit for building them.

 

[not_my_kids]

The Japanese, Austrailian and American stock markets are all falling. Grain, oil and auto stocks have all dropped significantly, and Japanese automakers are halting production due to the controlled blackouts.

I'm sure there are individual links for all of those, but I'm going off what my tickers are telling me, and what my uncle, the stock market guru just emailed me. Not good, IMO. Even if the radiation stays contained, there is no way we can pretend that this is not having global ramifications.

 

[not_my_kids]

Can one buy them by the tablet? I think it is potassium iodine. Maybe at a pharmacy, eh?

I think we're going to be safe Mel. It is our kids and their future families I worry about.

The fact there is no fail safe remedy set for when one has to call off the reactor employees in a situation like we have in Japan and let the reactors possibly melt down on their own is just crazy. You would think these agencies that control nuclear power would make that mandatory before giving a permit for building them.

Yes, the West Coast is literally buying out the pharmacies of potassium iodine tablets. I fear that they will begin giving them to their children in doses too high or start taking them, and when the normal side effects set in, mistake it for radiation poisoning, since the effects of both are similar in terms of stomach problems. That will just cause more panic as people flood ER's convinced that they are contaminated...