Japan: 9.0 Earthquake-Tsunami-Nuclear Reactor Developments #3

[sorrell skye]

The spent fuel rods are stored in a pool near the roof - the only containment structure was the roof that was blown away in the explosion.

 

[Peliman]

The spent fuel rods are stored in a pool near the roof - the only containment structure was the roof that was blown away in the explosion.

I'm thinking in a perfect world they would be cooled. I think contained would imply my thinking more.

 

[sorrell skye]

I'm thinking in a perfect world they would be cooled. I think contained would imply my thinking more.

I wish it were so, Peli. I wish it were so.

 

[scandi]

Oh you can count on that. Wonder how many drones have captured data from the site today? Plus you have to wonder what the ISS is collecting and sending back here. Such sophisticated equipment we have - we don't need to wait on them for information. Then there's the USS Ronald Reagan - right there too - collecting data and info.

I'm wondering if we're gonna see the Great Eastward Movement (as opposed to the Great Westward Expansion - now in the history books)?

I think you are right on it WOO.

There are also a couple of our other ships in the SW part of the Sea of Japan, just out of danger. These were ships that were already in Japan before the earthquake. Wish I knew which link I read that in but I have just read too many ! I think they are military ships, not sure, but saw them on a map on TV. Ah yes, I didn't read it but saw it on CNN. lol

 

[hollyblue]

My understanding is the containment core is encased in steel surrounded by concrete. In case of a meltdown the steel containment should hold but if the heat melts steel it will run into the concrete encasement making it unlikely to rupture outside the reactor vessel. I'm under the impression the spent fuel rods are held outside the protection of the vessel.

I think you meant likely. It does sound like the rods are stored outside of the containment, but are they surrounded by steel/concrete too? I can't remember the number of rods per pool, but it was in the thousands...compared to what is within the reactor core itself.

Back to study too.........

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Originally Posted by tehcloser
4.08am (1.08pm JST): Reuters is reporting that the US government has authorised the voluntary departure of the family members of embassy staff. The State Department is also chartering aircraft to Tokyo to help Americans leave Japan, it says.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog...aftermath-live

Originally posted by lkhns
And while they say "voluntarily" I would bet my hat that that just means "situation bad you need to go but we cannot say that b/c we would piss off the current gov't by saying the current situation is dangerous". This is rather ominous. Esp. given that this recommendation comes a short time AFTER the USA started getting their own information and grasp on the situation.

There ya go. Family members of Embassy Staff are being evacuated. Kat said it was a sign to look out for. Now we have seen it.

Kat said...

"At the first "scent" of danger they will evacuate those dependents so fast it will make your head spin. Those dependents will be first in line---usually before diplomats, usually before govn workers, usually before any amercians that would need to be evac'ed. Seriously not kidding about that..."

Yep, happens every time. When we hear that, we know the government bigwigs are thinking "serious, very serious, dangerous".

 

[sorrell skye]

Reactor 1
Current Status The outer building is damaged and it is presumed that there was a partial meltdown. Small amounts of radioactivity have been vented.

Reactor 2
Current Status A partial meltdown is presumed to have occurred. The containment vessel has been breached and some radioactivity has vented.

Reactor 3
Current Status The reactor building has been damaged, the containment vessel may have ruptured and radioactive steam may be being released.

Reactor 4
Current Status Spent fuel rods in a water pool may have become exposed to air, emitting radioactive gases. An explosion and fire have damaged the building.

Reactor 5
Current Status The reactor is shut down and the building is not damaged. But there is concern that spent fuel in the building may become exposed to air.

Reactor 6
Current Status The reactor is shut down and the building is not damaged. But there is concern that spent fuel in the building may become exposed to air.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/world/asia/reactors-status.html?hp

 

[Kat]

I see that it's being reported that certain dependents are being evac'ed out of that country.

If you have a family member or know of one that is a dependent of a service member and they are being evac'ed please---please don't give any details or where they are going to on open forum. This website is open to anyone to read. Please don't post? Thank you.

About radiation making it's way to HI or the west coast.

Here is the bottom line: I can take the pill or make my kids take the pill for their thyroid. Sure. But that isn't an antidote for radiation exposure or radiation poisoning.

If fallout or radiation travels that far (we are pretty darn far) and remains concentrated enough to cause serious health issues then well...

we all have to just bend over and kiss our own behinds....IYKWIM.

I can't get overconcerned for a variety of reasons. But I still don't think that we are going to see major problems. I just don't. My stance is also that the federal govn of the USA isn't lying to us. There is absolutely no reason for them to mislead or lie to the public---but then again I am very anti-conspiracy theory. Just me. Not a dig at anyone just stating my stance.

What I do fear is that some knucklehead is going to panic and either get him/herself killed (which thins out the herd of idiots but...) and take their child(ren) out with them. They will end up killing their kids because they will panic and do something very very stupid----like completely seal their home on plastic? Good lawd. It scares me for the kids.

There really isn't anything to do. Whatcha gonna do? (shrugs) nothing really to do but sit and wait and see.

All JMHO and sharing my stance on things today which could change. If other see it differently I'm cool with that

 

[scandi]

We've seen the signs that Kat said to watch for, and the ones that I said to watch for (although I would trust Kat more on this one, really, since I have nothing official to go on whatsoever). This is bad. More than anything, the closed embassies, moved embassies, and embassy family evacs are the most telling to me. Remmeber, embassies are tough buildings, and they are worked by tough people that don't scare easily.

NIX, NMK. That was one very telling post Kat wrote.

 

[trigger]

NG has Anderson Cooper on now.

 

[scandi]

I'm so confused by all this. I hear the fear everywhere but several "experts" I have seen on t.v. or heard on the radio here in the U.S. say there is nothing to worry about here in the states and that the effect of exposure within a small radius of the reactors is minimal. One guy said you'd have to sit on the area where the radiation steam was leaking out to see an effect. I don't know what to believe. I do tend to trust that at least for now, we in the states are okay. But how to sort it all out? What is the truth? Is money behind some of the statements? Fear of widespread panic? What's the deal?

Hi Gitana, I saw an Oregon State official on the news tonight that said virtually the same thing written in this OPB article: http://news.opb.org/article/81218-officials-radiation-japan-poses-no-health-risk-oregon/

Snipped " . . . Officials contend the radiation releases would have to be much bigger, and would have to go far higher into the atmosphere to pose a realistic threat".

Living in Oregon I simply have to trust this man. He also talked about how they not only have the radiation sensor stations in Corvallis and Portland but have added some roving sensors as well. I track on Oregon, living here, so haven't read much about Ca.

Realizing that cloud will slide down our coastline sometime tomoz morning to hit Ca late afternoon, I am sure the whole coastline will be monitoring this first cloud.

It is raining cats and dogs here tonight and due for much more heavy rain tomoz. xox

 

[not_my_kids]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium
http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/rf/plutoniu.htm
Plutonium does not penetrate skin, but irradiates organs when inhaled or ingested. Bones, lungs, liver, and bone marrow at the most risk from plutonium. Bone surfaces and the liver are the most affected in most cases of serious exposure. Although it is dangerous if ingested, it is most dangerous when inhaled. Ingestion usually means that not that much will enter the blood or other organs, because it does not easily penetrate the GI tract. However, when inhaled, it easily reaches the bloodstream and then goes to other organs. It enters organ tissue and does not easily or quickly dissipate, meaning that it continuously irradiates surrounding tissue, leading to increased cancer risk. Lung cancer risk increases once total inhaled amounts reaches 400mSv. It takes decades to leave the body and thousands of years to leave the environment. It may be the only radioactive isotope that you can actually detect a taste to (metallic). Low risk of genetic mutation, since it is not stored well in reproductive organs.

http://web.ead.anl.gov/uranium/guide/ucompound/health/index.cfm
http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q754.html
Uranium has a main negative effect of kidney toxicity. It is dangerous when it hits the skin in large amounts, but main risks are from inhalation, and lesser so from ingestion. Once ingested or inhaled it can go to the bloodstream, then it is filtered by the kidneys, causing damage to them. it does not enter the blood through the GI tract as easily. Cancer from exposure often takes several years to appear. Inhalation ups lung cancer risk. The effect on the reproductive system is still largely unknown, and the closest comparable type of poisoning is lead poisoning.

http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/sr.htm
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...&sig=AHIEtbTt7aZGxw26mnWu6d3Uv8a8Yn-shw&pli=1
Strontium, can be taken into the body through ingestion or inhalation or contact with it in soil. It does cause lung cancer, and stunts bone growth, calcium uptake, and has been shown to lead to bone tumors and bone deformities. It can damage cells and cause anemia and lead to oxygen starvation. Due to it's nature, it easily enters groundwater. The fastest route into the body is through the gastrointestinal tract, but it is more dangerous when it is inhaled. Children are the most susceptible to it's effects, especially those under the age of 1. It is usually held in bone surfaces, soft tissues or simply passed through urine or fecal matter. It is so easily taken into bones because it mimics calcium, in some ways, and can fool the body. (Personal note, I would think that this could be kept out of the body much the same way as lead can, by simply making sure that the system is full of healthy amounts of real calcium.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium-137#Health_risk_of_radioactive_caesium
http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/cs.htm
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=575&tid=107
Cesium 137 is spread easily and evenly through the body. It settles easier into muscle tissue, as opposed to bone, and can cause muscle spasms and tremors. It can be inhaled or ingested and causes the common signs of radiation poisoning in high doses, like vomiting, nausea, diarrhea, bleeding, coma and death. It can go long distances in air and easily settles into groundwater. It does not go far below the surface in soil, so it is easy to stir up after it settles. It is filtered out by the kidneys, causing damage, and can stay in the body for weeks or months, slowly being cleared by urination. Pregnant women that are exposed to it can have children that show decreased mental function or behavioral changes. It can also be passed through breast milk if the mother is exposed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine-131
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=575&tid=107
Iodine 131 is absorbed through inhalation, ingestion, or simply exposure. It builds up in the thyroid, causing damage, cancer, growths, and irritation of the thyroid, as well as other thyroid related problems. Children and teens are at higher risk of developing these problems. It passes thru urine and sweat in time. Once it hits the ground, it stays where it lands for a long time, and when it lands in water, it can be revaporized and then rain/snow back down, being redeposited onto the earth and water over and over again. There are some studies that suggest that can continue for literally millions of years.


If that doesn't scare you, nothing will.

These are the things that I have seen talked about as being contained and possibly released from the reactors. Now, remember, research is only as good as the researcher...so take it with a grain of salt. (No iodine puns intended there, really.)

 

[Melanie]

A United Nations forecast of the possible movement of the radioactive plume coming from crippled Japanese reactors shows it churning across the Pacific, and touching the Aleutian Islands on Thursday before hitting Southern California late Friday.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html?_r=2&hp

 

[scandi]

A United Nations forecast of the possible movement of the radioactive plume coming from crippled Japanese reactors shows it churning across the Pacific, and touching the Aleutian Islands on Thursday before hitting Southern California late Friday.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html?_r=2&hp

That article deserves a special Thanks Mel. It is jam packed with information.

 

[sorrell skye]

I feel like I'm having a deja vu moment.

 

[not_my_kids]

Dumb, dumb question: If the rods can't be moved until they cool, how do they get into the containment pools?

 

[sorrell skye]

Dumb, dumb question: If the rods can't be moved until they cool, how do they get into the containment pools?

The spent fuel pool in a Mark I is located just above the reactor.

http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/2011/03/16/78903/

 

[not_my_kids]

The containment pools are located just above the reactors.

Yes, I know, but that means that they can be moved, just not far. What are the limits of how far they can be safely moved? That's all I'm wondering.

ETA( In other words, were they stored that close out of absolute necessity or was it laziness and cost cutting that led to the increased risk they are seeing now?)

 

[not_my_kids]

By the way, mid michigan pharmacies sold out of potassium iodide. That's where I live and they showed an interview with a pharmacist that said they sold the last of it this morning, within an hour of opening. There were customers waiting when they unlocked the doors. Per my local news.

 

[not_my_kids]

Panic over radiation leaks at a Japanese nuclear plant may be diverting attention from potentially worse threats to public health, such as thousands of people living in the open in cold weather after a tsunami.

Experts said efforts in Japan should focus on ensuring safe drinking water and the disposal of sewage to prevent outbreaks of killer diseases such as typhoid and cholera, although the likelihood of any such epidemic was remote so far.

"People are getting so concerned about what are, at the moment, pretty low levels of radiation as far as the general public is concerned. But the real problems ... are in dealing with the earthquake and the tsunami," said Dr. Richard Wakeford of Britain's University of Manchester.

"If this was a developing country, we'd have people going down in the hundreds and thousands with the likes of typhoid and cholera by now. The questions should be: Where is the sewage going? What is the state of the drinking water?"



Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Radiation+fears+mask+worse+threats/4453198/story.html#ixzz1GqCUSltI