What Is the Defense Strategy?

[belle3]

Could be!
Except, that was said before they had to ditch the psychmobile.

backup plan for the back up plan?

 

[LambChop]

Defense Wants Someone Else To Tell Casey's Story To Jury

Once upon a time there was a mean, nasty, rotten witch named...

How about Olympia Dukakis!?
(think Steel Magnolias)

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Wizzer. :floorlaugh:

 

[LambChop]

Possible they picked up on an ammonia odor somewhere around or in the car? Urine turns to ammonia after an extended period of time, does it not?

I think you can use ammonia mixed with something else to make chloroform. Not sure, may have to ask JoyPath but I think ammonia has some chemical compounds that are commonly found in decomposition also. jmo

 

[Harmony 2]

In the link above and here, http://www.wftv.com/pdf/27520527/detail.html, why does it list Home Depo vids on dates prior to June 15?

Does anyone think that there is video of KC buying ingredients in order to make chloroform?

Also there's Walmart video from July 23 - one date only. It seems there should be more videos from Walmart, according to someone's testimony
stating they saw KC and Caylee at a Walmart on June 16 iirc.

There was a missing receipt IIRC and I recall that Cindy would not turn it in... was it ever revealed what that receipt was for and did she ever submit it to LE?

 

[Whisperer]

Has anyone kept track of how many motions Baez has filed? Is it true that Baez teaches Law at a college nearby?

 

[SoCalSleuth]

Bold by me.

Ok, so is this true?? I mean, really and truly true??? I am not questioning your statement, SoCal, but I am instead looking to solidify it.

If, in fact, they cannot change the 'what happened' part absent KC testifying, then they cannot change her story and say it was an accident.

So, is this really and truly true?? We won't see the DT shouting 'accident' without KC saying so out loud and in person????

What I wrote and what you bolded is absolutely true--based on the evidence disclosed by both sides as of today's date. There are no surprises in a criminal trial in Florida. That is not to say that after JP grants the SA's motion in limine, the defense isn't going to pull a rabbit out of a hat and have someone testify to an accident or testify to facts in which it could be reasonable to draw the inference that an accident happened--CA, GA, LE? Improbable but possible. They already tried to get in the testimony of 2 experts at the 11th hour. I also believe they added a gardening/maintenance man individual at the 11th hour as well.

That said, it concerns me that AF (is she the one with the bad hair??) tried to ask an expert a hypothetical about Caylee's bathing suit when AF knew that no such testimony would be independently introduced to support the hypothetical. That was hugely improper. That is why JP shut her down. AF knew better--a second year law student knows better. Then when JP questioned JB about the relevance and hearsay exception to the proffered expert testimony, JB responded with nonsensical blather. JP was truly verklempt by JB's obvious dance around a rather simple legal question. The rules of evidence are the rules of evidence. You learn them your second year of law school. These two instances do not raise complex evidentiary issues.

Although concerned, I think the SA, by filing their motion in limine, has shot an arrow across the bow, and that JP will give the DT another schooling in not positing theories or inferences at trial when there will be no testimony to support them.

 

[miss plum]

IMOO....the pool ladder testimony which has probably been honed by GA and CA (please don't make me go back and read all of their depositions...however I do know it was talked about in statements to LEO)....the allusion by JB and experts that a wet bathing suit could cause chloroform to be present. I think JB could do a "what if" scenario in his opening supported by just that. I am in no way saying I believe this....I'm just saying there is not much else to grasp onto here for this DT.

I think Dr G. said the duct tape would have to have been fixed either prior to or immediately (with no delay) after death, and IIRC duct tape doesn't attach to wet surfaces. That doesn't leave much time between the death, the dissociation, and the taping that, if not the cause of death, had to have been an attempt at staging a kidnapping by someone who is now not being blamed anyway if drowning is how they want to play it. None of these desperate scenarios ever work, they always fall down when you look at all of the evidence.

 

[Whisperer]

There was a missing receipt IIRC and I recall that Cindy would not turn it in... was it ever revealed what that receipt was for and did she ever submit it to LE?

Cindy give evidence to LE, voluntarily?. :floorlaugh:

 

[ZsaZsa]

There was a missing receipt IIRC and I recall that Cindy would not turn it in... was it ever revealed what that receipt was for and did she ever submit it to LE?

The JC Penney account. When YM asked her for the statement she said there was nothing on it. He couldn't get it from her voluntarily so it follows that she thinks there is something incriminating on it.

 

[mysteriew]

JB wouldn't be allowed to state that Caylee died in an accident in the pool unless either KC was definitely going to testify to that or absent KC's testimony there was independent evidence of that happening. No one has provided statements or depo testimony about any accident in the pool. I don't think the alleged pool ladder being moved is enough to suggest there was an accident. I also doubt highly that KC is going to testify. So what else is out there that could be used to indicate a pool drowning???

What if it wasn't a pool drowning? What if DT got Tone to testify that Caylee was there one night when he went to bed, and was gone when he got up? What if DT asked him if it was possible that Caylee woke up during the night, would he have heard her? Had KC ever gotten up with Caylee in the night and fallen asleep on the couch with her? Or alternatively did she ever take her out to the car? How much room was there on the couch, would it have been crowdeed if KC had fallen asleep with Caylee there? How did they sleep there, positioning?

The point being maybe for the questioning to lead up to the fact that perhaps KC fell asleep on the couch with Caylee (or in the car) and that somehow she ended up getting smothered.

 

[LancelotLink]

backup plan for the back up plan?

Great point. The DT never just let something go.

 

[Bittiness39]

Like I said before, it is throw GA under the bus time, for the Defense. All of the evidence leads back to ICA...henceforth, ergo, thusly, the Defense has to explain why that evidence leads back to the A home and ICA. Rather than admit responsibility for and knowledge of precisely what happened to Caylee...the Defense has chosen the tactic that (1) mothers do not kill their children, in their minds it is unheard of and rare (not really, statistics show and as a recent article that made its way onto our board suggests 100 of these murders (matricide) occur each year in America) and ICA is just a young, strapped, stressed out, innocent mother with all of these enormous pressures on her (like what? paying bills? not. paying rent? not. stuck with her kid 24/7 and juggling a job? not.)

(2) If mothers do kill their children or if an "accident" happens and they don't call 911 and instead duct tape them and triple bag them like trash and leave them on the side of the road...that there just has to be some hideous trauma in their past that explains it (If ICA were a man, would we even be listening to this bullchit? No.)

(3) Stall, fight the gag order and the speedy trial to get as much money and sympathy from a media who has mostly lost all of their journalistic creed/morals/ethics and then try to bait the public with this "you won't believe how innocent ICA is...we've got the bad guy...it just isn't her...we just won't tell anyone until we lay it out in court...oh...yeah...and ZFG doesn't exist even though we have spent two years pretending that she did....we just couldn't find a SODDI, we thought we'd nail Kronk with touch DNA but that didn't work, and we couldn't nail Jesse nor Tony (which saddens the Defense) so now we are left with blaming her dad, because well, that is how we roll (ethics go out the window, apparently when you are a Defense attorney).

GA is the latest victim of the Defense.

Incidentally, how much weight should we give anything that ICA says now? Well, if I am CBS or TruTv, A LOT of weight apparently. Or WESH...cuz anything she says now has to be the truth. Interestingly enough CBS apparently, doesn't want viewers to hear her first jail call home (and only one) to hear how awesomely rude, spiteful and just flat out not caring about the whereabouts of Caylee she was...it was more about Tony's phone number that she needed to have.

I can say this much, ICA will be found guilty. Those in the media and who sympathize with Ms. Anthony who think that a guilty verdict against her is "miscarriage of justice" need to hop into a hot trunk of a Pontiac Sunfire during the afternoon in June in Orlando and think long and hard about just how unfairly Ms. Anthony has really been treated.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

There was a missing receipt IIRC and I recall that Cindy would not turn it in... was it ever revealed what that receipt was for and did she ever submit it to LE?

I distinctly remember that CA told YM that she didn't give it to him because there was nothing relevant on it and YM stated that was for LE to decide. Never heard anything after that about the receipt. Was it furnished in discovery by either side? I don't recall seeing it.

 

[Ricki]

There was a missing receipt IIRC and I recall that Cindy would not turn it in... was it ever revealed what that receipt was for and did she ever submit it to LE?

I believe LA took or copied a receipt out of JBs office and gave it to OSCO. This was said recently in court where the DF was trying to say the Anthonys were agents of the state.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

What if it wasn't a pool drowning? What if DT got Tone to testify that Caylee was there one night when he went to bed, and was gone when he got up? What if DT asked him if it was possible that Caylee woke up during the night, would he have heard her? Had KC ever gotten up with Caylee in the night and fallen asleep on the couch with her? Or alternatively did she ever take her out to the car? How much room was there on the couch, would it have been crowdeed if KC had fallen asleep with Caylee there? How did they sleep there, positioning?

The point being maybe for the questioning to lead up to the fact that perhaps KC fell asleep on the couch with Caylee (or in the car) and that somehow she ended up getting smothered.

Generally, I guess they could ask him such questions without asking the ultimate question of "Would it be possible that KC smothered Caylee by accident on the couch/car?" But then I don't think that would be enough for JP to let the defense make the leap from how much room there was on the couch/car and whether they ever slept together on it/in it -to then taking those answers (if they are in the affirmative) and arguing that it's possible KC smothered Caylee by accident. The inquiry would be: Is the evidence gathered from Tony's testimony such that a reasonable inference could be drawn that KC accidentally smothered Caylee on the couch/in the car? Me thinks not, jmho.

 

[Just Jayla]

I think Dr G. said the duct tape would have to have been fixed either prior to or immediately (with no delay) after death, and IIRC duct tape doesn't attach to wet surfaces. That doesn't leave much time between the death, the dissociation, and the taping that, if not the cause of death, had to have been an attempt at staging a kidnapping by someone who is now not being blamed anyway if drowning is how they want to play it. None of these desperate scenarios ever work, they always fall down when you look at all of the evidence.

ITA-These scenarios also don't work for a sensible jury who will surely ask why KC has been sitting in jail for three years and facing a possible DP with lawyers who are going largely unpaid, otherwise spending tax payer dollars, losing nearly every last friend and family member that ever cared about her, and ultimately risking all claims to any money to be gained from this (Son of Sam)....just to cover up an accident from her mommy.
Puh-lease.
Funny, though-Even if an accident theory floats, she'll never make a dime. Nope, those pretty dimes go directly to Ms. Gonzalez, mother of 6.

 

[Snaz]

OT- but I saw your post on the Lawyer thread as to why the duct tape was still adhering to scalp hair after all that time....
I'm no Lawyer nor Scientist but I can tell you that hair is all but indestructible, it takes a strong chemical like Mr PlumR to unblock my bathroom drains when they get plugged up with the stuff.

But what about the adhesive? If it deteriorated completely, how could it still hold the tape to the hair? :waitasec:

I gotta go check the thread and see if there is an answer...

Thanks for responding, ZsaZsa!

 

[Just Jayla]

But what about the adhesive? If it deteriorated completely, how could it still hold the tape to the hair? :waitasec:

I gotta go check the thread and see if there is an answer...

I know you'll find something concrete, but my best guess would be that the interwoven material that the tape is made of could have tangled with her hair while wisking back in forth in the water, in addition to any possible adhesive.

I thought there was adhesive found, that it tested the same as adhesive from another roll of Henkel, but that the major difference was that the tape on Caylee's skull was missing a certain cotton thread that is found in a "new" roll of Henkel tape. I believe it was Valhall that pointed out that the cotton thread in the Caylee tape could have easily biodegraded.

 

[miss plum]

Any theory that has SODDI is contingent upon the disorganised murderer somehow knowing with certainty that KC was going to fall into a rare Turner Classic Movies-style dissociative state and would blithely drive around with Caylee's body in her car for days on end without ever raising the alarm.

 

[miss plum]

What if it wasn't a pool drowning? What if DT got Tone to testify that Caylee was there one night when he went to bed, and was gone when he got up? What if DT asked him if it was possible that Caylee woke up during the night, would he have heard her? Had KC ever gotten up with Caylee in the night and fallen asleep on the couch with her? Or alternatively did she ever take her out to the car? How much room was there on the couch, would it have been crowdeed if KC had fallen asleep with Caylee there? How did they sleep there, positioning?

The point being maybe for the questioning to lead up to the fact that perhaps KC fell asleep on the couch with Caylee (or in the car) and that somehow she ended up getting smothered.

KC would have had to rush home, put duct tape from the house on Caylee and then wrap her in items from the house and place her in a sealed environment before the insects arrived.

ETA: Plus she would have had to quickly go into her dissociative fugue before leaving for home and once there efficiently finding all the materials she needed to wrap the body and stage a kidnapping.