IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #15

[akh]

As we are going back to the first days -- something that has always bothered me.
The whole business ABOUT police having to use A battering ram to get into Smallwood.

Police say they asked for the video. Smallwood refused, saying they'd like to see a search warrant. Even when the search warrant is produced -- nobody from Smallwood is on hand with a key, so cops break down the door. Then the spokesman for Smallwood puts out a self-serving statement saying that they are doing all they can to help police. Qualters is then asked why this Kabuki dance had to take place in order to get the video hard drives. He says firmly that he doesn't know the answer to that.

Have you ever heard of a business refusing to give cops access to surveillance in a criminal investigation...unless of course the business is a target? When have you heard the deli owner, that gas station or apartment building refusing such a request. Was it just this case that they demanded a warrant? If there had been a multiple shooting with eight dead in a hallway, would they comply without a warrant? What about a terrorist attack?

THIS WAS SIMPLY TO FIND OUT INFORMATION ABOUT A MISSING GIRL WHO HAPPENED TO LIVE IN THEIR BUILDING! And nobody presses the issue.

I don't really have a problem with a business, especially an apartment house, requiring the police to provide them with a search warrant. They don't want people to think the video equip is there for 'Big Brother' any time 'he' decides he'd like to come down and take a look at who is coming and going and what they appear to be doing. It's just a part of everyone being safe and secure in their homes from government intrusion. It's a simple task to require the police to show probable cause and get a warrant before just handing over video evidence.

I don't look at it as much as a refusal to provide the video as a matter of just general policy not providing video without making sure the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed in every case. They need to show residents and potential residents they don't just allow the police to come fishing. It's not quite the same as an individual having control of giving permission to search their own home or apartment.

For the argument that time was of the essence to carry any weight as to not even having a few minutes to wait for a search warrant and this delay hindering police... it's hard to give that angle much weight when it took LE as long as it did to even request getting the videos.

The battering ram seemed a little over the top and dramatic IMHO. If keys were on the way and the room secured from tampering then the battering ram and busting down the door was either for PR purposes or a 'you will respect my authority' thing.

 

[TonyGatto]

But isn't what Smallwood did indicative of this whole story? They need a warrant to give the video. Parents say friends won't talk. Police appear to be detached. Bar owners don't want the bad publicity. The university is supportive, but silent, at the same time. The media is absent. Sources come forward and when they speak they are shut down. It seems that everybody, from the POI's to the circle of friends, the police, Smallwood, IU, bar owners, police, are all trying to portray themselves in a good light.

 

[cluciano63]

But isn't what Smallwood did indicative of this whole story? They need a warrant to give the video. Parents say friends won't talk. Police appear to be detached. Bar owners don't want the bad publicity. The university is supportive, but silent, at the same time. The media is absent. Sources come forward and when they speak they are shut down. It seems that everybody, from the POI's to the circle of friends, the police, Smallwood, IU, bar owners, police, are all trying to portray themselves in a good light.

True enough, Lauren's parents should have lots of questions of everyone, including LE...and parents are never really a "team" with LE in these cases, even if LE allows them to think that. LE is working to solve the crime and to look good doing it, IMO...

 

[British]

But isn't what Smallwood did indicative of this whole story? They need a warrant to give the video. Parents say friends won't talk. Police appear to be detached. Bar owners don't want the bad publicity. The university is supportive, but silent, at the same time. The media is absent. Sources come forward and when they speak they are shut down. It seems that everybody, from the POI's to the circle of friends, the police, Smallwood, IU, bar owners, police, are all trying to portray themselves in a good light.

That's all true and these are all good points. However, at the same time the police has given enough information out to really raise major doubts on the assertions of at least one of the POIs (the last one to see her per his account). It is clearly emerging from the info that we know that something happened in the last apartment complex and that likely one or more of her "friends" may be involved in her disappearance. It seems that the investigation is now targeted that way. The police may be much closer to an arrest than we know. But I dont blame them for not disclosing all the info they have.

 

[jjenny]

I am sorry, but Smallwood video incident appears to me a "grandstanding" episode by the police. The police arrived there at 8 pm with the warrant. There was no one to let them in at that time. So they broke the door. Smallwood says there was somebody on the way with a key.

"Those cameras captured footage that Bloomington police were so interested in grabbing that they broke down the doors to Smallwood's data room, causing several thousand dollars' worth of damage, even though a maintenance man with a key was on his way to let them in, Reno said."
http://www.indystar.com/article/201...pierer?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE

 

[Lovejac]

Here are some chart readings on our Forensic Astrology Forum.

Three different astrologist have come to the same conclusion about Lauren. She is deceased, drugs and alcohol were involved and one or more friends know what happened and where she is.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6814464&postcount=37"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LAUREN SPIERER -Last Seen 6/3/11 Bloomington, IN[/ame]

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[guitarmeister]

Initially I wasn’t too suspicious about POI's having lawyers, but the Indy Star article today has me thinking more about it. I don't buy you always get an attorney if you are a POI because of wrongful prosecution. There are a 1000 times more people that get off a crime that they actually committed then those who are innocent. Those in jail who are actually innocent are almost always poor and used court appointed attorneys.

The POI's seem to come from wealthy families as one hired one of the most expensive lawyers one can get in Indiana.

Other reasons for "lawyering up" like fearing a civil suit or perhaps an associated charge like providing alcohol to someone under 21, drugs or worst case dealing (and I've seen no evidence of the dealing here) seemed premature unless the POI's were involved in the disappearance. IIRC most of the POI's had attorney's within the first week. I remember that CR’s lawyer has an interview with WTHR in Indy very early in this case

The frustration of LS's parents means to me that they feel not all of the information that POI's have is being shared with LE. I would be too knowing that an attorney is now involved with the POI's whose primary obligation is to protect their clients and not really helping find LS. IMO this is reason that very little further information has come from LE since the first few days.

I appreciate TG and work he has done on this case. I live in Indiana and have been to Bloomington many times. Take away IU, Bloomington is just another small Hoosier city. I think that BPD does a good job, but as mentioned many times here is that they are much better on corralling rowdy college kids than dealing with the sophistication of something like this. The Indy Star article is pretty damning about how BPD handled this case.

IMO LE is at a standstill until they either get more information from a POI (not likely) or until LS is found.

 

[PaulR]

Here are some chart readings on our Forensic Astrology Forum.

Three different astrologist have come to the same conclusion about Lauren. She is deceased, drugs and alcohol were involved and one or more friends know what happened and where she is.

I think people have been saying that for weeks, and without the 'help' of astrology.

 

[LittleAMom]

Much discussion made of the POI's hiring lawyers, and I see both sides. Another option is that the POI's didn't harm LS or hide her body, but they were using drugs. I imagine that confessing to such drug use could harm future college and employment opportunities? Wouldn't they be kicked out of IU? If they were charged, wouldn't a conviction hurt their future job options? I don't know - I'm sure some of you would know better. The point is, these are young people who presumably want to continue their education and I'm sure their parents want them too also. They may be hesitating to speak up because they know that they don't have the faintest clue what happened to LS.

That said, just because they may have nothing to do with the disappearance of LS doesn't mean that they are great people who go above and beyond to help their friend and a distressed and anguished family.

 

[Jupiter812]

But isn't what Smallwood did indicative of this whole story? They need a warrant to give the video. Parents say friends won't talk. Police appear to be detached. Bar owners don't want the bad publicity. The university is supportive, but silent, at the same time. The media is absent. Sources come forward and when they speak they are shut down. It seems that everybody, from the POI's to the circle of friends, the police, Smallwood, IU, bar owners, police, are all trying to portray themselves in a good light.

When you put it that way we all sound like the Stepford Wives.

 

[British]

Here are some chart readings on our Forensic Astrology Forum.

Three different astrologist have come to the same conclusion about Lauren. She is deceased, drugs and alcohol were involved and one or more friends know what happened and where she is.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LAUREN SPIERER -Last Seen 6/3/11 Bloomington, IN

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LAUREN SPIERER -Last Seen 6/3/11 Bloomington, IN

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LAUREN SPIERER -Last Seen 6/3/11 Bloomington, IN

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LAUREN SPIERER -Last Seen 6/3/11 Bloomington, IN

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LAUREN SPIERER -Last Seen 6/3/11 Bloomington, IN

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - LAUREN SPIERER -Last Seen 6/3/11 Bloomington, IN

With all due respect to astrologists, you dont need astrology to conclude this. I have concluded the same, based on the evidence, without using astrological charts.

 

[LittleAMom]

Also want to add - maybe one person making the (non imprudent) decision scared the other POIs/parents into doing the same - especially parents who want to do the best for their kids and who can afford it. I think if my friend was lawyering up and I was part of the group it would really freak me out!! In fact, I vaguely recall that there was a delay between the first person and the rest, but maybe I'm misremembering.

 

[bx2]

As we are going back to the first days -- something that has always bothered me.
The whole business ABOUT police having to use A battering ram to get into Smallwood.

Police say they asked for the video. Smallwood refused, saying they'd like to see a search warrant. Even when the search warrant is produced -- nobody from Smallwood is on hand with a key, so cops break down the door. Then the spokesman for Smallwood puts out a self-serving statement saying that they are doing all they can to help police. Qualters is then asked why this Kabuki dance had to take place in order to get the video hard drives. He says firmly that he doesn't know the answer to that.

Have you ever heard of a business refusing to give cops access to surveillance in a criminal investigation...unless of course the business is a target? When have you heard the deli owner, that gas station or apartment building refusing such a request. Was it just this case that they demanded a warrant? If there had been a multiple shooting with eight dead in a hallway, would they comply without a warrant? What about a terrorist attack?

THIS WAS SIMPLY TO FIND OUT INFORMATION ABOUT A MISSING GIRL WHO HAPPENED TO LIVE IN THEIR BUILDING! And nobody presses the issue.

Very little was made of how LE obtained the alley cam footage making me think that it was handed over pretty willingly (or volunteered?) by 10th and College. Also makes me wonder if there is a copy.

 

[Jupiter812]

I'm highly suspicious of Smallwood. They were probably afraid of what else was on the videotape. Evidence of tenants doing more than drinking. And the hired gun, Reno, says they were just about ready to turn over the tape. Yeah right. And another thing, they a
Seem proud of their no-trespass list but a lot of good it did that night. Duh. What's the point?

 

[cluciano63]

I'm highly suspicious of Smallwood. They were probably afraid of what else was on the videotape. Evidence of tenants doing more than drinking. And the hired gun, Reno, says they were just about ready to turn over the tape. Yeah right. And another thing, they a
Seem proud of their no-trespass list but a lot of good it did that night. Duh. What's the point?

I wondered if Smallwood brought up the list to point away from Lauren being the source of the altercation and thus, distancing themselves from Lauren...

 

[akh]

Can you be trespassing if an apartment dweller invites you over? ...Especially if they are accompanying you?

 

[Jupiter812]

I am interested in knowing if JR dated, had a girlfriend, female pals. Anyone out there lurking or any members here know his attitude toward women?

 

[jjenny]

I am interested in knowing if JR dated, had a girlfriend, female pals. Anyone out there lurking or any members here know his attitude toward women?

I know nothing about JR's dating habits, but according to the roommate, LS and HT hang out there a lot. So they knew him for while. If he was creepy then I doubt LS would be hanging with him, which she clearly did. Going over there twice on the day/night she vanished.

 

[Jupiter812]

Can you be trespassing if an apartment dweller invites you over? ...Especially if they are accompanying you?

In his comment to the press Reno certainly made it sound like CR was trespassing.P

 

[SmoothOperator]

Searching: Searching for a body.. VS .. Searching for evidence, trace evidence, and scent searching for human decomposition or traces that at one time an area had come in contact with a deceased human body

IMO we are talking two totally different types of searching along with two totally and completely different objectives..

I do IMO find it extremely helpful to an Investigation for public searches and searchers to under close supervision and direction to cover much ground in searching for a missing person or their remains..

IMO I do not find that public searches and searchers help and possibly even hinder an investigation when used to clear areas OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THE MISSING PERSON OR REMAINS ARE NOT PRESENT IN THE AREAS THEY PERFORM A GRID TYPE SEARCH WITH SUPERVISION AMD DIRECTION GIVEN...

IMO when public searches and searchers are used to "clear" areas they have searched of any of these other extreme of importance evidentiary pieces it is not aiding in the investigation.. And if these areas are then truly deemed as cleared by only having public searches completed it is a huge botching of an investigation.. With very likely major evidence forever tainted and or lost and therefor of no use whatsoever to the investigation or future successful prosecution..

The human eye, nor the human ability of smell is adequate when searching and clearing areas for trace evidence, trace human decomp, or able to identify that an area had come in contact with a deceased human body..

This are the most extreme of importance types of evidence that can be found in doing correct searches by professionals as well as their highly trained K-9s..

What I am saying is that there is a huge difference in an area being searched by public searches and those areas being deemed clear.. IMO those areas are ONLY DEEMED CLEAR AT THAT TIME OF A MISSING PERSON OR THEIR REMAINS..

Those areas searched by public searchers are NOT deemed clear of any possible human decomp, traces of human decomp or dead body coming in contact with an area, or any other trace evidences that can only be found thru searches by highly trained professionals and their K-9s..

I hope that mAkes sense..

It is in no way a derrogatory statement about these wonderful, kind, and giving ppl that take time from their lives to search for a victim they've never met.. I am thankful and have nothing but respect and admiration for those who give of themselves to search, especially day in and day out..

And I think the vast majority of public searchers would agree that they are equipped with the abilities to search for a body or remains, possible articles of clothes, and items of this nature but not able to clear areas of the other trace evidences that could be found in those areas that they have cleared as far as a body, remains, etc.. And that in order for it to be cleared of these trace evidences it would warrant searches by professionals and K-9's..

So, with that said.. I do not believe some of the major and/or main areas of importance have been officially searched and cleared by professionals amd K-9s.. First that comes to mind is dumpsters.. While yes, it has been cleared by public searches body a body or remains but may not be cleared as far as human decomp, traces of contact of a deceased body, amd all other trace evidence only found with the assistance of a trained canine search..

Jmo, tho!