IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

[Walker]

You ARE stereotyping her because she is Jewish. That's what this thing with Israel is based on. *I* am Jewish and I am offended.

LS and I are of the same demographic.

I really don't understand.

LS had recently returned from a trip Israel. To speculate that she may have returned there, should be offensive to no one.

If she had recently come back from a trip to Greece, and I wrote that maybe she returned to Greece, would the Greek people be offended? I don't think so.

I just don't get it.

 

[Walker]

Ok, that is fair.

The last thing I will say is that what set me off was the painting of Kibbutzim as "rural communes" and I got touchy about it.

I will drop it now, promise. You're right about the N.O. point.

Then please describe what a kibbutz is.

 

[elmomom]

JMHO - we will probably never know if LE was on top of this case or not. Thank you Skigirl for transcribing those press conferences. A lot of words to say what, in the end, is very little. I don't know if it's good press management or just luck. It seems like they can cover up any inadequacies by saying they couldn't release info or keeping things quiet while they are investigating. We may never know how early it was when they officially asked for videos, statements, did searches, called in the dogs and what kind of dogs they were and where they went.

I've read in different places that the searchers might not have been such a good idea, possibly trampling evidence and contaminating the scene. While the family and the community may have felt better feeling that everyone was pitching together, maybe it was not the best move. What do you more experienced WSers think about that?

You know, I think hindsight is always 20/20. In the first week of searches, I think the focus was on finding her, alive, if at all possible. So time was more critical than maintaining crime scenes. And I have heard that they were very specific with the searchers about what to look for and how to treat it if something was found (stay by it, do not touch probably..)

They sure have managed to keep the story alive. You know, I still can't find anything out about Shaneice Nicholson, the woman whose body was found in Falls Creek last weekend. Nothing but her name and the mention of a tattoo. How sad is that?

Oh, and that CR comment about has anyone seen a little blond girl. How do you all read that? At first, I thought he was just coming up groggy from his night of partying and was kind of bragging that he had been out with her the night before. I didn't get the sense that when he said that (the morning after) that he already knew she was missing. But is that what most of you think he was getting at?

I have no doubt that he was asking if they had seen LS, and to me it means someone had already told him that she hadn't been accounted for after the night passed.

If I were the mother of LS, I think I might get my husband to go with me to visit the parents of the guys and have some heart-to-heart conversations. Bloomington isn't yielding much right now (that anyone is releasing) so they could leave for a few days.

Finally, does anyone know for sure who actually filed the Missing Persons report? The two friends, the bf, or the parents? Did LE start looking right away or did they wait till the parents flew in? Just curious when they started the ball rolling. Sorry so long - I only post sporadically.

The missing persons report. :floorlaugh: Good one!
HT said two female friends filed it (AR and another friend), and said JW was alerting parents at the time.
LE said JW did.
Another report in MSM (can't find it now) said her parents did, Saturday morning when they arrived.

The answer: your guess is as good as mine as to who filed it!

 

[Blythe]

I have always been interested in JW's conversation with Mr. S when he informed him that LS was missing. He had to have asked questions and had to have made an impression about the conversation and surely relayed this to LE. The words "It's Lauren, She's missing" as relayed to Mrs. S from her husband and mentioned in a presser have always haunted me.

 

[holly2325]

If I were the mother of LS, I think I might get my husband to go with me to visit the parents of the guys and have some heart-to-heart conversations. Bloomington isn't yielding much right now (that anyone is releasing) so they could leave for a few days.

Johneverett - This is an interesting idea.

When I listen to LS parents, they say they want one thing
1. they just want to know what happened

But they really want to know two things
1. what happened
2. where is she

I think they may be able to get info on one of the questions but the resistance will come at giving both.

If they really are as stumped as they seem to be, if I were the parents I would make the plea for anonymous tips to # 2 rather than #1.

 

[StrayKat]

JMO... her leaving the shoes and the phone says a lot. CR may have been 3 sheets to the wind and had to leave the bar (doesn't remember 15 min. prior to arrival at Smallwood), she may have stepped up to escort him to her apt since it is just around the corner, with plans of returning right away. After the scuffle she is still feeling responsible for getting him home. The alley video I think probably includes someone else... they never said it was him in particular that was seen with her on that video, that says a lot. And what exactly was happening in that video? Seems to me that she may have gone down that alley (out of the path of travel) where the keys were found to take a squat. Or they walked that way since she did not have shoes. JMO

 

[Gabby66]

JR is the easy suspect for most people, he was the last to see her, his story is a bit shady (most think watching her turn the corner is impossible), he had opportunity, possible motive...

So, in the interest of not beating a dead horse, I am trying to think of ways to implicate someone else. That someone being JW.
So far, the alibi for JW seems to be his room mate or house mates, saying he watched the game, could not contact LS afterwards, then ended up going to bed at 2:30 and had no incoming phone calls or texts. It was also said that he drove his room mate to his 8:00AM class, and appeared normal at that time. Wow, 8:00 AM, that is early, especially in summer session on a Friday. I'll just bet hardly anyone was stirring at that time. I wonder what he did after he drove his room mate?

Here is a quote from http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...isappearance?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p :


After reading this account of HT's tale over and over and over, the time line seems so weird to me. It could be bad writing. Interestingly, the one thing that stands out here that is odd is the statement by the reporter, "later that morning panic ensued." All the quotes from HT involve Friday afternoon, not morning. But, we do have another report (still looking for the reference) where CR is seen the next morning asking "hey have you seen a little blond girl".

So, I conclude that there was something going on the very next morning. And we have CR looking around the nearby vicinity - as if LS may have tumbled out of 5 North, set herself down and just passed out, and he expected to find her.
Maybe JW was up and about earlier than that, and he did find her?
We've all seen pictures of some of these friends passed out on lawns and front porches...

Also, we have all heard CR's attorney say that a couple of days later, there was another confrontation with CR. I know that very early on I had heard it involved JW and his father... but since then I haven't seen that repeated. But the point is, by mid afternoon at the latest, HT already had the story, and everyone in that camp knew that JR was the last person with LS, not CR. Why confront CR? Well, JW must have heard something to upset him about CR.

So, no, I don't think JW can possibly be dismissed. In fact, his alibi does nothing. He was up and about very early the next morning, and may have discovered a passed out LS... possibly making him the last person to see her.

I've found this odd too. Why would panic ensue before he even checked her room to see if she was sleeping? It sounds to me that they were searching for her and that CR was looking around too, but they hadn't even gone into her room yet. From the accounts given, he didn't even find out that she left her phone at Kilroys until 3 PM, yet they were already panicking that morning? That makes no sense. If it's true that JW and she had broken up, she could just be avoiding him - not answering - OR she could have been back at her place sleeping. According to HT, he didn't know that she wasn't there until later, right? I can't remember the time that he got keys and checked the room but I don't believe it was morning. I'd never caught this before but it's very odd.

 

[mamamia54]

Holly - absolutely!! And there are so many ways that whoever did this, and panicked, could leave a message somewhere, ANYWHERE!!

Think.....and leave a message to where Lauren is!!

 

[sherbetjello]

I've read in different places that the searchers might not have been such a good idea, possibly trampling evidence and contaminating the scene. While the family and the community may have felt better feeling that everyone was pitching together, maybe it was not the best move. What do you more experienced WSers think about that?

.

I wouldn't call myself experienced, but, at this point in some of these cases, the more people helping the better.

Justice is always important, but can always be deliberated in an awful way. I can think of an exact case that happened just last week.

So, now more importantly to me, personally, is finding the missing so each parent and family doesn't live with that pit in their stomaches and hearts.

 

[Walker]

I've found this odd too. Why would panic ensue before he even checked her room to see if she was sleeping? It sounds to me that they were searching for her and that CR was looking around too, but they hadn't even gone into her room yet. From the accounts given, he didn't even find out that she left her phone at Kilroys until 3 PM, yet they were already panicking that morning? That makes no sense. If it's true that JW and she had broken up, she could just be avoiding him - not answering - OR she could have been back at her place sleeping. According to HT, he didn't know that she wasn't there until later, right? I can't remember the time that he got keys and checked the room but I don't believe it was morning. I'd never caught this before but it's very odd.

Usually conflict has an escalating quality.

CR was assaulted that night at Smallwood, but most likely a long series of much lesser incidents preceded this event.

The earlier incidents were likely verbal exchanges, insults and threats.

A group of students confronted CR; therefore, the conflict may have been group-on-group rather than centered on two individuals.

Was LS identified as part of one of the two groups?

What was her emotional state?

We have noted earlier that in at least one photo from FOX, she looks apprehensive. Also, posters have noted that she called her family every day.

Was the on-going conflict between the two groups causing her intense anxiety over a long period of time?

 

[Blythe]

What might have happened in the alley and why is it necessary, or at least LE's decision, to withhold that information?

 

[cluciano63]

If LE is holding the info about the alley back, I HOPE it is because it is an investigative clue, ie. someone doing something to Lauren that leads them to believe she never would have been able to walk home an hour later, but perhaps not something illegal in itself that would allow them to arrest the person. (Slinging her over shoulder, i.e. because she could not stand up.)

As far as being close-mouthed...we see this in almost every missing persons case that gets any kind of major media attention and it does not seem to be a "clue". IMO, many LEA's become wary and shut down in the face of media, not wanting to make mistakes and taking the chance, therefore, that they are telling too little for anyone to be able to help them. And valuable time is lost, sometimes many months, before they may come back and give out a few more drips of information.

As far as Lauren's parents trying to talk to the other parents...I get the feeling they would not encounter a warm welcome...apples not falling far from trees, perhaps.

 

[Johneverett]

I wish she was in NO or Israel or anywhere else of her own free will as opposed to the mostly dire scenarios we have been discussing for weeks.

 

[obody]

I've just thought of a couple of things that have me more inclined to think JR was telling the truth about LS leaving:

Unless he was completely confident that he knew where ALL the security cameras were, he would have been taking a big risk by lying about watching her walk away. Potentially video evidence could have proved him wrong. How likely is it that he knew locations of security cameras?

If he did something that needed covering up, then why did he not lie in a way that would drive LE elsewhere? He could have said "she told me she was walking to JW's", or "she said she was going to check out a party in X building". Saying [I'm paraphrasing here] "I watched her walk part way home" does nothing to deflect from him.

 

[elmomom]

If LE is holding the info about the alley back, I HOPE it is because it is an investigative clue, ie. someone doing something to Lauren that leads them to believe she never would have been able to walk home an hour later, but perhaps not something illegal in itself that would allow them to arrest the person. (Slinging her over shoulder, i.e. because she could not stand up.)

As far as being close-mouthed...we see this in almost every missing persons case that gets any kind of major media attention and it does not seem to be a "clue". IMO, many LEA's become wary and shut down in the face of media, not wanting to make mistakes and taking the chance, therefore, that they are telling too little for anyone to be able to help them. And valuable time is lost, sometimes many months, before they may come back and give out a few more drips of information.

As far as Lauren's parents trying to talk to the other parents...I get the feeling they would not encounter a warm welcome...apples not falling far from trees, perhaps.

yup totally agree with most of what you said. I just think LE would be putting on more pressure if they let out some of the details that make the students' stories less believable.
As far as LS parents talking to the other parents... I thought that when Mrs Spierier said "we are part of an investigative team" she meant that they were not willing to go around or differ from what LE decides is the right way to pursue this.
In my imagination, if the parent said to LE, "we just want her remains back", LE would be reminding them very strongly that they may have more than just an accident here, and that the first thing they would want after finding her remains, would be justice. So maybe advising them against any outside bartering or dealing for the limited info of where the body is. I don't know... it's just my opinion...

 

[Blythe]

One would think that LS's parents did have a long, if not totally warm, under the circumstances, conversation with JW. That is why I remain curious about that. How do you tell someone their daughter is missing and what information do you provide? For me this would be telling and I can only imagine that in Mr. S's mind, at least, he either feels satisified that JW told all he knew or is suspicious.

 

[holly2325]

I've just thought of a couple of things that have me more inclined to think JR was telling the truth about LS leaving:

Unless he was completely confident that he knew where ALL the security cameras were, he would have been taking a big risk by lying about watching her walk away. Potentially video evidence could have proved him wrong. How likely is it that he knew locations of security cameras?

If he did something that needed covering up, then why did he not lie in a way that would drive LE elsewhere? He could have said "she told me she was walking to JW's", or "she said she was going to check out a party in X building". Saying [I'm paraphrasing here] "I watched her walk part way home" does nothing to deflect from him.

I would love to see what his official statement to the police says.

 

[elmomom]

I would love to see what his official statement to the police says.

Well we can make a few guesses. Since the time line released by LE includes a "witness" seeing her at the corner of 11th and College at 4:30, we can assume that the witness is JR and the story he told LE is fairly similar to the one we have heard from Tamir.

 

[Blythe]

I am beginning to believe that LS is in the immediate area but for some strange reason has not been found. Locals, could this be? I remember a case over two decades ago on Long Island. Young newlywed, Robert Solomon, claimed his wife had gone for a walk and was now missing. When her body wasn't "discovered" quick enough; Robert, went into the woods himself and found his wife in a plastic trash bag. He was convicted of her murder and has not since been granted parole. My point is that even in the event of foul play, there may have been no intent to take the body far. But then, why haven't the searcher's come across anything? Wish I could have searched.

 

[holly2325]

Well we can make a few guesses. Since the time line released by LE includes a "witness" seeing her at the corner of 11th and College at 4:30, we can assume that the witness is JR and the story he told LE is fairly similar to the one we have heard from Tamir.

True. I sometimes consider that if the story about watching her walk to the corner is a lie, perhaps it was one created to satisfy HT. Either anticipating or answering the question, "why'd you let her go?" And then after some time when it seems that the story had no critics, it became his official "story."