GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #10

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Let's say they have concrete evidence that we don't know about....like blood on McD's clothing....will you guys be more impressed with the dogs hitting in McD's apartment?
 
Irene_Adler said:
My apologies in advance for the extreme length.

Sorry to interrupt the very interesting K-9 sleuthing, but I thought this was really interesting. Thumbs up to Matou for bringing this up, and to GT&T for giving us some insight. I know that the law school offers a class called "Great Trials," or something to that effect. Basically, law students give a presentation and write a research paper of sorts on a trial they find particularly interesting. One of several cases that the professor suggests for those students who have trouble finding a trial of interest is the Leopold & Loeb case. I'm not sure if McD was in this class, but if he was, there is a fairly good possibility that he heard about this case.*

However, even if McD was completely unfamiliar with the case, several aspects of this case absolutely fascinated me:

- In reading the defense expert's psychiatric testimony given at trial, several things stood out. I'm making no observations as to the validity or credibility of any of these evaluation, but I do think they may offer some insight. Also, the contentiousness of the psych evals may foretell of events to come:*

My thoughts: When I read this, I was struck by the complementary nature of these two personalities. When reading about one or the other, I kept imagining that these were two sides of the same McD coin.

My thoughts: Although I think Lauren's murder was much more than the product of mere happenstance, I do think that there are similarities here. Leopold and Loeb planned this murder for years in advance as the ultimate display of their intellectual superiority. Purely based on what we know thus far, McD has displayed more than a little intellectual bravado and has been contemplating "the perfect murder" for quite some time now.*

My thoughts: While I think the obvious plan was to never get caught, I also think that McD may have chosen dismemberment for its sheer shock value. I also think that if McD were permitted access to the media's coverage of his case, he would love every single second of it (and for that reason alone, I'm grateful he isn't). I think this is his "second-best" scenario, for lack of a better phrase. I'm sure that there are more than a handful of very skilled criminal defense attorneys who would be ready and willing to take on McD's case, many of whom are extremely passionate in their opposition to capital punishment, no matter the crime.*

More at:*

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/leoploeb/leopold.htm
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Respectfully snipped for space..*

Excellent and insightful post Irene!! No need for any apologies here the entire post and your thoughts were IMO relevant as well as insightful.. Again, thanks!

I, too did a little reading on the Leopold and Loeb murder last night and I must say that I agree with you on your personal thoughts relating Stephen to Leopold and Loeb.. ITA about the media attention and I as well am thankful he isn't allowed to feed off of it.. IMO all that would do is further compel him to lie, lie, and lie pointing the finger of suspicion away from himself and only further hurting all involved which now includes a completely innocent man whose life I'm certain has been turned upside down by being just another unfortunate victim of Stephen's in being used as an attempted escape goat..

ITA as well that this was not the #1 plan of Stephen's. Infact I know several here in this thread will agree that they too feel most likely this was not plan A. Shall we say..
And I guess only time will tell as this continues to unfold we will better be able to see just what kind of time of preparation went into this plan B of if the torso was located and the suspicion fell on him to then point the finger and attempt to point the evidence as well AWAY FROM HIM AMD ONTO DD..

When was that plan B born? How was it decided who would be the best "fall guy".. Escape goat to use?? Wonder what all it was that made Stelhen choose DD? Was it simply because he would be most likely to have the access needed to be able to even commit the murder and pull it off even as well as was done??

Those are just a few of the questions that go thru my mind when thinking on Stephen's likely years in the making "perfect murder plan"..

Thanks for the post Irene:)
 
~SuperSleuth~ said:
:cat: Yeah, but what's dawg spelled backwards? :poke:
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Agu?? As opposed to Uga? You can take the girl outta Jawwwja, but'cha cain't take the Jawwwja outta the girl! ;)

edited to add: Come to think of it, living back home in Jawwwja, I do believe I recall the 'spression "Gwad, almighty!" Dog, God, Dawg, Gwad....all the same to me, honey darlin' *wink*

And thanks for the great laugh! lol...needed one tonight!
 
Originally Posted by Oriah
"Ummm, not really. That would be HO's site".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

　Then PlainJaneDoe posted the above followed by (a confused smilie).

I thought she was asking what “HO” referred to.
So I posted the url.
---------------------------------------------------------
I did not say that HO’s dogs searched the BH apt premises, and
Did not intend to give that impression.

Sorry for any confusion.
 
3doglady said:
Winters seemed pretty laid back and methodical in the hearing. I was just wondering if that would his demeanor in a murder trial. He and Buford seemed to have a amicable relationship. It's interesting to see different prosecutors style.
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I thought he seemed a bit antsy. But, to be fair, the camera usually only panned to him when there seemed to be a bit of "trouble".
 
thanks to several posters for links to various types of dogs & searches, the training, etc

Interesting topic.
 
Wondergirl said:
Yeah, how DID LE come upon the laundry room evidence anyway?

At the hearing, Det. Patterson states that LE did not know about the hacksaw yet (hadn't been recovered), when they found the packaging in SM's apartment.

Didn't LE search SM's apartment late Thursday night?

Wouldn't that mean the hacksaw was found late late Thursday night, into Friday, which would mean the dogs did not alert in the laundry room? :waitasec:
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They could of thought that SM used sheets, towels, had on clothes that needed washing after finishing with his crime and decided to check out where he did his laundry. Just an idea.
 
Givsmetheshivers said:
Let's say they have concrete evidence that we don't know about....like blood on McD's clothing....will you guys be more impressed with the dogs hitting in McD's apartment?
Click to expand...

Just speaking for myself, it's not that I'm not "impressed", I just find the whole issue of the dog searches very interesting and full of possibilities.

As to your question: I guess it would depend somewhat on what article of clothing it was...? But, again, it's not that I don't give the dog search evidence weight, just on the face of it.
 
I don't think any of us are very likely to know the answers to these questions, but I'd be interested to know:

(1) Whether it was the usual practice to have a "resident contact" at the apartments (before DD)

(2) If so, who held that position previously

(3) and (also if so) whether that person's keys were all accounted for when they left the position and (4) whether that person was still in residence at the apartments (but no longer in the contact position) at the time of the murder
 
Thanks for links to info on dogs & searches.

Interesting topics.
 
Wondergirl said:
Yeah, how DID LE come upon the laundry room evidence anyway?

At the hearing, Det. Patterson states that LE did not know about the hacksaw yet (hadn't been recovered), when they found the packaging in SM's apartment.

Didn't LE search SM's apartment late Thursday night?

Wouldn't that mean the hacksaw was found late late Thursday night, into Friday, which would mean the dogs did not alert in the laundry room? :waitasec:
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Cadaver dogs wouldn't alert in the laundry room unless a body had been in there.

ETA: I guess you mean they should've alerted because the hacksaw had blood on it. That does raise a good question. I need to muddle that one around a bit. :)
 
August 31, 2011

Complex Owner: Blue Gloves Belong to Me
Work gloves possibly stained with blood that were found recently at murder suspect Stephen McDaniel’s apartments by a private investigator belong to the complex’s owner.


​
 
~SuperSleuth~ said:
Complex owner: Blue gloves belong to me
http://www.macon.com/2011/09/01/1685668/complex-owner-blue-gloves-belong.html
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Talk about not performing due diligence or whatever the legalese term for that is
icon12.gif


So the PI found the gloves, but did not question the owners of BH as to who they might belong to? Did he remove them? If so, wouldn't BB have to give her permission? I'm confuzzled.

What looked like blood is paint?
 
Knox said:
Talk about not performing due diligence or whatever the legalese term for that is
icon12.gif


So the PI found the gloves, but did not question the owners of BH as to who they might belong to? Did he remove them? If so, wouldn't BB have to give her permission? I'm confuzzled.

What looked like blood is paint?
Click to expand...
Many questions, Knox. The article says LE retrieved them from the complex after the hearing. But were they still on the dryer? Or in BB's possession? And if they are really stained with blood, whose blood is it?
 
Knox said:
Talk about not performing due diligence or whatever the legalese term for that is
icon12.gif


So the PI found the gloves, but did not question the owners of BH as to who they might belong to? Did he remove them? If so, wouldn't BB have to give her permission? I'm confuzzled.

What looked like blood is paint?
Click to expand...

story indicates police retrieved them from the complex after the hearing

eta: bessie, sorry to echo!
 
bessie said:
Cadaver dogs wouldn't alert in the laundry room unless a body had been in there.

ETA: I guess you mean they should've alerted because the hacksaw had blood on it. That does raise a good question. I need to muddle that one around a bit. :)
Click to expand...


There is a chemical pseudo cadaver scent that is safe because there are no biohazard problems to consider. Other training material included blood, teeth and hair ...

http://www.ncanewfs.org/columns/pages/gazette15.html
 
bessie said:
This goes back to what I noted here:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Click to expand...

Well, except these were obviously not planted, nor hidden.
She said the investigator found them on top of a dryer in the laundry room where she’d been doing work to prepare the complex for new tenants.
Click to expand...
So, these would not have even been there during any LE searches.

Really makes you wonder why the heck Buford even brought this up?
Could this PI really be this incompetent?
 
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