IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

[Jupiter812]

Look at the message on http://jayrosenbaumneedstotalk.wordpress.com/.


jayrosenbaumneedstotalk.wordpress.com is no longer available. The authors have deleted this blog.

 

[Blythe]

I am one of those who would be interested to know the behavior of the PsOI, especially as the discovery of the missing LS unfolded. Those observations are crucial to my speculating, although I realize that many people argue about the subjectivity and possible biases which present themselves when presuming to analyze an individual's overall behavior, including verbal and non verbal cues.

This investigation has not revealed any behavioral scenarios nor many direct quotes from people of interest. So I have had little to add to the discussion, despite the thought, that it is no wonder others can entertain so many possibilities for the disappearance of LS.

I do believe, however, despite the resolution of this case, that there are lessons to be taught. First, I hope that young people will take as much pride in staying in control of their faculties as they do in their academic achievements and personal appearance. And that they will begin to be dissuaded from chemical substance use. Professionals need to better understand the phenomena of both self medication and reckless behavior in our aspiring university culture. Indeed, many of these professionals are from this culture and many more will be. I am not certain that even within the dialogue in these threads, the general concensus is that unprescribed drugs are destructive. It seems that we are at best resigned that, although illegal and dangerous, drug usage is a rite of passage.

Secondly, it would serve us all well if members of society valued mutual concern and consideration, especially for their companions. Who of us, if first on the scene of an auto accident, house fire, discovery of a lost child in the mall or elderly person in distress, etc.. would fail to assist? Yet, how often might those very same citizens merely laugh at the stumbling intoxicated? Members of society need to be concerned for those under the influence. It is not as simple as just taking away their car keys.

Thirdly, depriving a family of the return of a human body must carry much stronger penalties. It ought to be unthinkable to believe that typical US university students would have such indifference and depravity toward not only human life, but for the human body! We bury pets in this country. Warring nations negotiate the return of human remains. As of today, miniscule remains of victims of 09/11/01 continue to be identified because families hope that even the tiniest trace of DNA will be recognized as their loved one.

It is time for awareness campaigns for all three of these lessons. IMO

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Let me see, dealing? Or maybe just Daddy's cash. Maybe LE has busted his door open but I haven't heard that the DEA has. From all accounts I have read on this site and media links, the pre-partying took place at his place. LS wasn't foaming at the mouth from a beer she drank at the bar, that is for sure.

If you read a few pages back the DEA busted ZO's apartment. The DEA doesn't bust my door down so it must have been more than a hunch.

I'm often puzzled and suspect of the members joining this site the month or so that LS goes missing and adamantly defending one POI or another.

Good for you. Now perhaps you can apply your critical perspective to your own theory, which I've already pointed out doesn't make sense, as well as to the basis of your suspicion of me - I've largely attacked JR here, and defended JW (and HT), but now I'm defending JR against your attack on the kind of car he drives, which has nothing to do with this case but only your class-animus. Is he a DD? If so, his car is not evidence of that - it's well-understood here that he comes from wealth.

I have read, yes, that DEA raided ZO. However, I have not read that from any mainstream media or otherwise seemingly reliable source. In fact, I have yet to see any mainstream media source report anything of the sort, even without naming names. It is merely an anonymous forum commenter repeating an anonymous comment elsewhere. I'm sorry, but while I don't rule out the possibility that they are true, I don't credit anonymous comments, and don't think they should be treated as fact, because anyone can make up anything.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

When the Spierers speak of Lauren's friends, I can't imagine they are talking to people she met 2 weeks prior at the Indy. I don't even know that they were aware of Lauren befriending these guys. So you're saying Lauren was good friends with JR, CR and MB and the parents were well aware of this? I seriously question your motive and defense of this group. HT and JW are and have been "friends" of Lauren. I can't say that for the other group. Can you say for certain that the parents were aware that Lauren was "friends" with these guys she just met and that is who they were speaking out to?

We are not talking of their reference to her "friends," but rather their referring to the person responsible for LS's disappearance, and their explicitly naming JR and CR as persons whose stories they question. And as to "friends," LS may have met CR and MB the week before, but she had hung out with JR for a year, and was also friends with DR. By your same logic, they would not refer to JW as her "friend," but her boyfriend, and might well refer to HT and others as her roommates.

 

[kemo]

To me, the key to this whole thing is JR and his claim that LS left his apt (and made the critical right turn) soon after the 4:16 AM phone call. If this is true, then something "happened" to LS after she rounded that corner. Either she was abducted (or perhaps voluntarily enter a vehicle or some apt along the way) or she wondered off in the wrong direction. There are many cams along the way that would have registered her progress to that point. They also would record any vehicle entering or leaving the area and they would have been able to determine if a vehicle entered the area that stopped for "some reason" before leaving the area.

What I am getting at is the question of "how likely is it that JR's statement be true in light of all of the cam evidence that is available"? From what LE and LS's parents are saying, it seems impossible or close to it.

If JR is "lying", what have we got? Realistically, this is a murder investigation. I can't categorically claim that "innocent people don't lie in murder investigations", but when they do, it can do serious damage to the investigation and it can cause serious problems for the "liar", including, but not limited to, being prosecuted for that murder. Usually, they will "clarify earlier statements", often with the assistance of consul.

In this case, say LS really did leave JR's apt safely but an hour earlier and JR lied about the time. Perhaps he didn't want his friends to think that he let an extremely inebriated girl walk home alone in the middle of the night. He may have figured that by saying she left at 4:30, she would have had more time to sober up and his actions wouldn't look so bad. If this is what happened, he is not only messing up the investigation but he is making himself look real guilty. It is way past the time to come clean.

If there is some reasonable chance that JR's account is true, I would expect him to stick with it. Although it is far more likely that LS died a "drug related' death and JR was involved in a cover up, the chance that LS was abducted by a predator off the street would make any circumstantial case against JR or anyone else, impossible. If the 4:30 AM "off the street" abduction theory can be eliminated, I would think a case against JR and perhaps anyone else with him at that time would be possible.

 

[cluciano63]

I am one of those who would be interested to know the behavior of the PsOI, especially as the discovery of the missing LS unfolded. Those observations are crucial to my speculating, although I realize that many people argue about the subjectivity and possible biases which present themselves when presuming to analyze an individual's overall behavior, including verbal and non verbal cues.

This investigation has not revealed any behavioral scenarios nor many direct quotes from people of interest. So I have had little to add to the discussion, despite the thought, that it is no wonder others can entertain so many possibilities for the disappearance of LS.

I do believe, however, despite the resolution of this case, that there are lessons to be taught. First, I hope that young people will take as much pride in staying in control of their faculties as they do in their academic achievements and personal appearance. And that they will begin to be dissuaded from chemical substance use. Professionals need to better understand the phenomena of both self medication and reckless behavior in our aspiring university culture. Indeed, many of these professionals are from this culture and many more will be. I am not certain that even within the dialogue in these threads, the general concensus is that unprescribed drugs are destructive. It seems that we are at best resigned that, although illegal and dangerous, drug usage is a rite of passage.

Secondly, it would serve us all well if members of society valued mutual concern and consideration, especially for their companions. Who of us, if first on the scene of an auto accident, house fire, discovery of a lost child in the mall or elderly person in distress, etc.. would fail to assist? Yet, how often might those very same citizens merely laugh at the stumbling intoxicated? Members of society need to be concerned for those under the influence. It is not as simple as just taking away their car keys.

Thirdly, depriving a family of the return of a human body must carry much stronger penalties. It ought to be unthinkable to believe that typical US university students would have such indifference and depravity toward not only human life, but for the human body! We bury pets in this country. Warring nations negotiate the return of human remains. As of today, miniscule remains of victims of 09/11/01 continue to be identified because families hope that even the tiniest trace of DNA will be recognized as their loved one.

It is time for awareness campaigns for all three of these lessons. IMO

College-age people (as well as others) have been intoxicating themselves since the world began...that won't end anytime soon. There was an 18-year girl at a Florida college who died a few weeks ago, seemingly of alcohol poisoning. She made it back to her bed, otherwise who knows what might have become of her body...people have been covering up crimes for just as long. In a perfect world, lessons would be learned from such events, but it won't happen anytime soon. 18-year olds going off to college seldom go with the intent of remaning sober for 4 years in order to get the best education they possibly can...JMO

 

[Jupiter812]

Does anyone recall if JW was FB friends with HT? Because he's not as of today. :kilroy:

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Does anyone recall if JW was FB friends with HT? Because he's not as of today. :kilroy:

This is incorrect.

 

[Jupiter812]

This is incorrect.

What is incorrect?

 

[jennyb629]

Does anyone recall if JW was FB friends with HT? Because he's not as of today. :kilroy:

They are still friends on FB, you just have to scroll through JW's list of 1000s of friends to find HT. If you just do a 'search by name' it will not come up, presumably because of her privacy settings...but that's the way around that-she's still listed as his FB friend...FB privacy is never really that private...

 

[Jupiter812]

They are still friends on FB, you just have to scroll through JW's list of 1000s of friends to find HT. If you just do a 'search by name' it will not come up, presumably because of her privacy settings...but that's the way around that-she's still listed as his FB friend...FB privacy is never really that private...

I wondered about that search function. It certainly wasn't important enough for me to search manually! Thank you.

 

[jennyb629]

I wondered about that search function. It certainly wasn't important enough for me to search manually! Thank you.

Haha-You're welcome. I know it wasn't really important enough for me to do that either-as I was scrolling through all his friends I was thinking 'wow, I really feel like a loser for doing this/have a lot of time on my hands' but you piqued my interest and I just had to find out if there was some FB indication of a change in JW and HT's relationship

 

[CanManEh]

Jesus vinny you had me wiping away a few tears after that .

 

[MEM2010]

Praying for Lauren Spierer and her family.

Just heard a heartfelt letter from her mother on HLN. Wish they would have given Lauren more coverage after that.

It has always been MOO that Lauren unfortunately passed from a drug related cause,

I just wish those who know more would come forward.

 

[cluciano63]

Just catching a bit on JVM show about Lauren...Jane says she tried to verify the timeline with LE, who would not do so. JVM shows Lauren last being seen at 4:30AM but fails to mention that this only per JR.

 

[Jupiter812]

Haha-You're welcome. I know it wasn't really important enough for me to do that either-as I was scrolling through all his friends I was thinking 'wow, I really feel like a loser for doing this/have a lot of time on my hands' but you piqued my interest and I just had to find out if there was some FB indication of a change in JW and HT's relationship

Don't be too hard on yourself. Had I known for certain they were friends before and I couldn't find her I could have been motivated to look harder. :crazy:

 

[cluciano63]

Jane asking a former LE, what can be done next to break open this case? He thinks the Spierers open letter was excellent. But does not seem to have any other ideas...

 

[Jupiter812]

Just catching a bit on JVM show about Lauren...Jane says she tried to verify the timeline with LE, who would not do so. JVM shows Lauren last being seen at 4:30AM but fails to mention that this only per JR.

What's JVM? TY in advance.

 

[cluciano63]

What's JVM? TY in advance.

Jane Velez Mitchell on HLN Issues...

 

[phantomthought]

Keep in mind that she was just partying with JR & Co at 12:30 on. The effects of the drugs and her heart condition, medications could have taken some time (an hour seems reasonable) to show. It would make sense that by 1:46 or so, the drugs were fully in her system and the dye had been cast long before. I doubt during the short time frame that they were at the bar that there was any time to spike a drink. I'm sure the tapes (if there were any videos at Killroys) have been looked over with a fine tooth comb. I believe that Lauren started crashing roughly after she left JR's, which would make sense that she stumbled out of Killroys and then Smallwood. I don't believe there was any foul play with her drinks. I believe that everything she did at JR's had everything to do with her condition. Just like if you had a few drinks, takes a while to feel the effects of it. I don't know what she did at JR's and am not making any assumptions but whatever she did would take some time to get through her system. She was drugged, I'm sure. But I believe that was on her own while she was partying before the bar. Didn't they go right from JR's to Killroys? Then her condition would make perfect sense at that time of the night. I don't know why this JR kid is driving around in a Range Rover without the Feds busting through his apartment like they did ZO's.

As I said other circumstances could fit her behavior.As far as not having time to spike her drink how long does it take to pour something in someones drink 1 or 2 seconds?