CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

[katydid23]

And yet, JS and DS are the ones who have a history of violent altercations with one another, complete with police reports & photos.

I think there are similar things in RN's past that we cannot post here yet. imoo
Birds of a feather and all that...

 

[katydid23]

Thank you scorekeeper. I did not take it as an attack although I felt like it was somewhat personal. Thank you for your concern.

I did not mean for it to be any kind of attack at all. I did make it personal in that I was replying to a personal situation in your post. I am sorry if it seemed like I was attacking anyone, because that was not at all my goal. I think I have to step away from this thread. :rose:

 

[TorisMom003]

We don't know what the circumstances were surrounding the "shopping" that occured with Rebecca and her sister on Tuesday before taking the sister to the airport. They both could have not wanted to be in the house after what had happened but still have a while before the sister needed to be at the airport for her flight. The house could have been secured by LE just in case and the sister had to leave some of her belongings behind so Rebecca took her and replaced those items. There are a number of things that could have happened that we simply don't know about. Personally I feel it is unfair to condemn Rebecca about the "shopping" without knowing all of the facts behind it.

 

[Stella5]

Stella5, after some research based on autopsy report, please note the following:

Autopsy Report
petechiae: tiny red or purple spots on various parts of body....sometimes in clusters
----------------------
World of Forensics: strangulation vs hanging....."if petechial hemorrhages and facial congestion are present, it is a strong indication of asphyxia by strangulation as cause of death."

That is not absolute. Here is a very detailed report on what does & does not cause petechial. Hanging deaths most certainly do because the oxygen supply is cut off above the heart.

http://charlydmiller.com/LIB04/2000petechiaereview.pdf

In 1985, Luke and his colleagues elaborated on this theme in a retrospective study of hanging deaths (15). They concluded that the small vessel and intracapillary pressures in the head leading to the formation of petechiae of the conjunctivae and face should reflect the extent of carotid and vertebral artery occlusion, and that this, in turn, was dependent upon the amount of compressive ligature pressure produced by the degree of body suspension. The effects of the consistency and size of the ligature were not specifically addressed. Other authors have supported this contention, but have further suggested that the petechiae result from elevated venous pressure combined with hypoxic injury to endothelial cells caused by venous stasis and tissue acidosis (2,4,5,9,10,13,16,18,22)

Persons with tight fastenings around the neck are recognizable instantly by their facial plethora and numerous petechiae

The importance of defining the pathogenesis of conjunctival and facial petechiae lies in the potential implications of their misinterpretation. They are simply markers of increased cephalic venous pressure. In and of themselves, they should not be regarded as supportive evidence of asphyxia; in a vacuum, conjunctival and facial
petechiae point to no particular cause of death


Autopsy Report - page 5 - External Description - "…the face is generally congested. There are dense, innumerable, focally confluent, fine red petechiae.
------------------------
Medical Examiners (research): If the victim has marked congestion in the face with petechiae and fine petechiae, then it is more likely death by strangulation.

See above same information applies, especially "conjunctival and facial
petechiae point to no particular cause of death"


World of Forensics...."hanging victim will have a pale face and a protruding tongue."

Autopsy Report - page 5 - External Description...."the mouth is slightly open and the tongue is NOT protruding."

That is also not absolute... "The tongue is usually swollen and blue, especially at the base and usually forced against the teeth when the jaw is shut, or the tip may be projecting between the lips." http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103&Itemid=120
Besides, Rebecca had a blue shirt in her mouth it wasn't possible for her tongue to protrude.


Based solely on these findings, the autopsy report should conclude:
Cause of Death: Strangulation Disagree
Manner: Murder Disagree

Carioca... I have done a LOT of research based on the autopsy and prior experience with hanging suicide deaths, please note the replies above in red. I cleaned up the original post a bit to make it easier to read & follow.

I would urge everyone to read this link:
http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=103&Itemid=120

It is very informative in regards to what exactly should be found in a hanging death (suicide or not).

 

[jjenny]

I guess what I am trying to say is that the way a parent takes care of their own child in the home is often slightly different than they expect from a caretaker or babysitter. RN was JS's girlfriend, and had agreed to take care of Max during the day. He was said to have a very athletic and adventurous, rambunctious kid. So leaving him to his own devices for up to 20 minutes while you are away in another private room like a bathroom is not right, imo.

If he was in his room or the playroom and she was in a nearby room where she coulod hear and keep a close eye, then great. But her sister was in the shower, and she was in the bathroom, leaving Max in the 27 room mansion all by himself. That is not safe, imo. And I do not blame DS for being angry at all.

All of this is neither here nor there considering she is dead.

 

[SunnieRN]

I agree. Especially under these tragic circumstances. DS has tragically lost her only child, while under RN's care, and her family has the nerve to trash talk and say that DS was jealous because he loved RN more than his own mother?

That is just low, imo. And it follows the earlier pattern of allegedly putting the older children in the home at the time of the 'planking' accident. it is a low blow, imo.

I think RN's sisters are actually doing her a disservice if they are going to say things like " she was not that upset, she even went shopping with her sister before she flew home."

So are we to now hear that she took the 13 yr old out shopping that morning on Tuesday? And that is supposed to prove that she was NOT that upset, not enough to kill herself?

What that says to me is that she has mental issues if she could go 'shopping' on Tuesday morning. imoo I would not have been able to get out of bed the next morning after watching my 6 yr old stepson die before my eyes.

Katy, I will say to you again, that you didn't know Rebecca or the circumstances involved.

Her sister had been cut cleaning up the chandelier and had been through a horrific time with seeing all that she saw, being involved with ems, police and I am sure a lot of questions.

Not the best way to end a trip. We don't know if Rebecca took her to replace a pair of pants that got ruined with blood, took her to get her a keepsake to remember her trip by, or if she had to be out of the house as LE was looking into the accident so they had nothing else to do. Maybe this was something that had been promised to her sister before Max's accident occurred.

DS has slung many comments about Rebecca, just as Rebecca's family has about DS. In a game of words, there are never winners. Never. Maybe both sides will realize what they are doing and stop it now.

 

[scorekeeper]

I did not mean for it to be any kind of attack at all. I did make it personal in that I was replying to a personal situation in your post. I am sorry if it seemed like I was attacking anyone, because that was not at all my goal. I think I have to step away from this thread. :rose:

katy,

We all take these cases very seriously and close to the heart. We all want answers and all appear to be strong willed and very much out spoken.
It seems today has been stressful for all; I know especially me. So, let's all take a deep breath, hug and be thankful for all the great friends we have here.

Think I will go hug my daughter and try to get some sleep.

Tomorrow's gonna be a brighter day......

score

fftobed:fftobed:fftobed:

 

[Peaceful]

If only the mogul had just sprung for a nanny, perhaps all of this might have been avoided, both deaths. He also should never have bought that historic home if he wasn't planning to upkeep it. If you saw that great pic of the front on the Luxist link, it had a great pic of those beautiful front hedges lining the walk, which I'm assuming he just tore out rather than maintaining it. It looks so threadbare in its current condition. Tacky, nouveau-riche attitude, and el-cheapo to boot.

Also there's a pic out there somewhere of the back courtyard with a smallish round picnic table set up. The lawn was in horrid condition.

I did not find your post to be useful but I did find it to be (add British accent) HILARIOUS!

Has anyone mentioned the fact she was wearing those rubber bracelets defies most of the explanations I've heard about her being nude. Not all of them, but some of them.

 

[SunnieRN]

I did not mean for it to be any kind of attack at all. I did make it personal in that I was replying to a personal situation in your post. I am sorry if it seemed like I was attacking anyone, because that was not at all my goal. I think I have to step away from this thread. :rose:

No offense taken. I'm a tough old bird!!:seeya:

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

They want to make a big deal of the fact that only her DNA was on the rope. Of course her DNA was on the rope. It was around her feet, hands, and neck. But that doesn't mean she was the one who tied the rope and put it there. It could have come from the contact with her skin. Someone could have worn gloves to keep from leaving DNA. I believe this was not a suicide and think there was too big a hurry to get the case closed. The question is why the hurry? Who was behind that decision?

I agree on all points, Annie.

I hope Roy Black reads your post.

He sounded like an idiot.

mo

 

[katydid23]

Katy, everything that DS and Mary is saying can not be refuted by Rebecca. I do not believe that Rebecca was suicidal. I also do not believe that Rebecca felt NO guilt at all. But I don't think she felt guilty as in regards to believing that she caused Max's accident in any way.

No one knows the true circumstances of Max's accident. Except maybe Ocean, and I don't think we will be getting a report from him, if he is still alive at this point.

I also do not believe that we know the circumstances of Rebecca's death.

The two are intertwined. They will always be intertwined.

And just for the record, I had a step son, 6 years old, who loved his Mom, but cried every time he had to go home with her, because he wanted to live with me. I know what it is to have a stepson tell you he loves you. I know what it is to hurt because even though you love him so much, you k now he needs to be with his Mommy, so you do your best to make sure that you don't overstep the bounds as a step parent. It is ok to tell someone you love and trust about that relationship. It is a special relationship. It is amazing to feel like you have a part in helping that child feel love and trust. In pictures of Max and Rebecca he looks very comfortable and she looks like she truly loves him.

So hearing your story helps me understand why we disagree about this potential situation. I had a stepmother who I never laid eyes upon again after my beloved father died. None of us kids ever saw or spoke to her even though she was married to him for nearly 40 years. She always 'pretended' to love us, esp when others were around. And she loved to send my mom pictures of us all together at wonderful vacation spots, all smiley and lovey dovey. it was all an empty act, even though my father never understood what we tried to tell him. She was actually much more into his money and his status as an attorney than she ever was as a 'stepmommy. ' She pretty much let us do whatever whenever we wanted for all she cared. She never really watched us when we were little, just did her own thing. But when dad got home, suddenly she was all interested in us, and acted like she cared.
Maybe I am projecting this on RN, but that is the feeling I got when I heard that both of them were in the bathroom when that little boy flew over the top of the balcony. In my opinion, a mom who was tuned in to her little boy, would have a clue if he was starting to play like he was planking, or if he was running too fast on the second floor. That is the kind of stuff you keep an ear open for. imoo

 

[katydid23]

We don't know what the circumstances were surrounding the "shopping" that occured with Rebecca and her sister on Tuesday before taking the sister to the airport. They both could have not wanted to be in the house after what had happened but still have a while before the sister needed to be at the airport for her flight. The house could have been secured by LE just in case and the sister had to leave some of her belongings behind so Rebecca took her and replaced those items. There are a number of things that could have happened that we simply don't know about. Personally I feel it is unfair to condemn Rebecca about the "shopping" without knowing all of the facts behind it.

Well then her sisters should not use it as an example of her not being upset, imo.

 

[sorrell skye]

I'm afraid the circumstances of Max's and Rebecca's deaths are escalating into a War of the Roses between the bereaved families.

I don't like all the pointing of fingers.

I understand that Rebecca's family is hurting. But I must say that it is not an excuse to try to make it seem that Max preferred RZ over his own mother. If RZ's sister truly said that, and if that sort of commentary continues, I will lose respect for RZ's sister.

Furthermore, I dislike DS's claims that Max was smothered (insinuating that RZ murdered him).

A War of the Roses will not guide anyone to the truth.

 

[thinkingstraight]

I did not mean for it to be any kind of attack at all. I did make it personal in that I was replying to a personal situation in your post. I am sorry if it seemed like I was attacking anyone, because that was not at all my goal. I think I have to step away from this thread. :rose:

I had to step away as well. But I did want you to know that I have enjoyed reading your well thought out and logical posts. I know you must feel like the lone ranger out there, but I've been scared off properly. My feelings get hurt rather easily - Please don't get as discouraged as me. Youre not alone in your opinions.

 

[justice be served]

I really heard you on your honest response and we all come from different places which is important to remember. So thank you. This is by far an emotionally charged case and telling our own truths is not a bad way to sort out the possibilities.

So hearing your story helps me understand why we disagree about this potential situation. I had a stepmother who I never laid eyes upon again after my beloved father died. None of us kids ever saw or spoke to her even though she was married to him for nearly 40 years. She always 'pretended' to love us, esp when others were around. And she loved to send my mom pictures of us all together at wonderful vacation spots, all smiley and lovey dovey. it was all an empty act, even though my father never understood what we tried to tell him. She was actually much more into his money and his status as an attorney than she ever was as a 'stepmommy. ' She pretty much let us do whatever whenever we wanted for all she cared. She never really watched us when we were little, just did her own thing. But when dad got home, suddenly she was all interested in us, and acted like she cared.
Maybe I am projecting this on RN, but that is the feeling I got when I heard that both of them were in the bathroom when that little boy flew over the top of the balcony. In my opinion, a mom who was tuned in to her little boy, would have a clue if he was starting to play like he was planking, or if he was running too fast on the second floor. That is the kind of stuff you keep an ear open for. imoo

 

[SunnieRN]

Katy thank you for caring enough to share that with us!! I can totally understand why you feel the way you do. I don't honestly think that Rebecca was negligent, but she may not have been as attentive as some people are either.

I think she truly loved Max and I think Js knew that and that is why he was willing to leave him in Rebecca's care.

JS I think, really loves his children. In the family picture of his sons Bar Mitzvah, he looks very proud and happy.

I think he is a much better parent than he is a life partner. ;-)

And Katy, I am sorry for what you had to tolerate with your step mother. Some people are heartless and cruel and can't see their nose to spite their face.

 

[MyBelle]

this is from RN's sister:

"Becky was extremely close with Max. They loved each other very, very much. Dina was jealous of that relationship between her son, and Becky,” Mary Zahau tells RadarOnline.com exclusively. “Max would spend so much time with Becky and then go home and tell Dina how much he loved Becky. If there was a school function or Max had a soccer game, Dina would sometimes demand that Becky not be there,"

WOW. I am sorry, but the more I learn about RN the more I feel she was possibly having mental issues. Did she seriously tell her family that Max loved her so much that his mom was jealous ? SERIOUSLY?

wow. What a sick thing to say and a sick thing for the sister to go around bragging about. And let's see, Becky was so very very close with Max, yet according to thew family, felt no guilt about his death during her watch.

Even though she says he had been out of her sight for up to 20 minutes and last seen by her in the kitchen? And she feels no pangs of guilt that he ended up dead at the foot of the stairs? I think she was the one with the mental issues, not DS.

Of course it is terribly cruel for RN's sister to be discussing Max at all or even his mother. I think radaronline allowed the sister to do it because they want to provoke a reaction. They don't care how cruel it is.

One only has to read the autopsy report to know that the version of events LE said RN told them do not match the boy's fatal injuries. Plus, some of the specific details RN added such as his being in the kitchen and saying "ocean" is the type of detail a liar would add in order to cover up what happened. If she lied to the cops, no surprise she lied to her sister.

JMO

 

[sorrell skye]

I love you Katy!

 

[jjenny]

The baseball fan recently feel onto his head from 20 feet trying to catch a ball. He was talking at first. He later died. It's called a "lucid interval." So I fail to see why exactly a child couldn't have said a word, if a guy who fell 20 feet onto his head could talk in sentences.

 

[SunnieRN]

Of course it is terribly cruel for RN's sister to be discussing Max at all or even his mother. I think radaronline allowed the sister to do it because they want to provoke a reaction. They don't care how cruel it is.

One only has to read the autopsy report to know that the version of events LE said RN told them do not match the boy's fatal injuries. Plus, some of the specific details RN added such as his being in the kitchen and saying "ocean" is the type of detail a liar would add in order to cover up what happened. If she lied to the cops, no surprise she lied to her sister.

JMO

I didn't know you were there at the time of the accident. That imho is the only way you would KNOW Rebecca was lying, or have the right to make that statement.