MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

[Marah]

I am thinking of the son, M., who slept with the mom. I wonder if he was involved in some kind of accident with Lisa.

 

[ela_ss teacher]

[bbm]

1. It seems very strange to me for a mom with a baby to close all the doors, baby monitor or not. Almost sounds to me like an excuse to not hear anything.

2. I hate to judge anybody else by my instincts, but I do believe that most mothers--even if they were heavy sleepers before becoming a mother--hear every single noise in the middle of the night, especially if it comes from their child. I think they often wake even when there was no noise. Part of God's gift to mothers. I'm having a LOT of trouble with the concept that she slept through all this.

3. When I've had dogs, I've noticed the bark has a subtle difference if it's a "significant" bark.

I keep trying so hard to believe in these parents but am having so much trouble the longer this goes.

You're absolutely right. Like dogs, I think we recognize and react accordingly certain sounds even in our sleep. I could tell if my outside dogs were barking at a critter vs a nervous, someone is here, bark. The critter bark is annoying and just made me yell for them to be quiet. That "other" bark, I'd investigate.

I guess I just don't want to believe that a mom could do anything bad to her baby despite all of the stories we've heard.

 

[curiousc]

[bbm]

1. It seems very strange to me for a mom with a baby to close all the doors, baby monitor or not. Almost sounds to me like an excuse to not hear anything.

2. I hate to judge anybody else by my instincts, but I do believe that most mothers--even if they were heavy sleepers before becoming a mother--hear every single noise in the middle of the night, especially if it comes from their child. I think they often wake even when there was no noise. Part of God's gift to mothers. I'm having a LOT of trouble with the concept that she slept through all this.

3. When I've had dogs, I've noticed the bark has a subtle difference if it's a "significant" bark.

I keep trying so hard to believe in these parents but am having so much trouble the longer this goes.

They do say that it's wise to close all bedrooms doors in case a fire happens. Perhaps she is conscious of that info.

However, with that said, I do not like my bedroom door closed because I want to make sure it is open in the middle of the night for my children, and for me to be able to hear and waken if something happens.

Another thing, I have been sleep depraived since I had my first child. There's not one night that has not gone by that I have not been woken by one of my children. Sometimes when I do go to sleep, I have been told that it was hard to wake me up and that my hubby or my children tried with no success, even with them literally shaking me. I found out that when I am extremely exhausted, the first few hours after I have fallen asleep is one where I will not waken. However, for the majority of times, I wake up easily to a noise, to a light being turned on, or even with my hubby standing beside our bed.

 

[DairyGirl]

CliffJudy Cliff Judy

Lisa's aunt told me she & friends going to KS Speedway tom to pass out fliers & sell shirts. If you see group wearing yellow, that's them

9 minutes ago

* cough *

I am without words. That is so not me.

 

[tlcya]

as to the closed doors, it is recommended for fire saftey to keep childrens' bedroom doors closed at night. There was a huge debate about the closed door aspect earlier today.

Also, as far as the closed door debate goes I must be one of those atypical moms. My children's bedroom doors have always been closed at night. My first husband was a firefighter and was gone 24 hours at a time (including all night). My bedroom door was always closed as was our son's when we slept.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Yes, I remember that LE spoke to the two boys right away... I don't know if LE has since spoken to them again...But I hope so.. I noticed in that interview we just saw, when she was asked what she first thought had happened she said she thought one of the boys had picked Lisa up... I think we're getting a little sliver of truth at last...MOO

Oh...it's not that I don't believe you guys...I just wanted to figure out how so many of us missed it.

 

[lonetraveler]

We have a German Shepherd. Believe me,she feels like it is her business what goes on next door in the yard. It drives me crazy but she feels like she owns the outside perimeter of all areas that she can see or smell. If someone was trying to climb into our neighbors window my dog would be going crazy that night. And there is a noted difference between her 'routine' bark when a neighborhood dog walks by and when she thinks someone is lurking in the bushes.

Exactly! A German Shepherd will defend everything and anything in its sight and hearing. I have a very hard time overlooking a Lab not barking to protect its family and the children especially but there is no explanation for someone not hearing the German Shepherd. The dog would have to be deaf and dumb not to react to an intruder. Period.

 

[mrye4709]

I'm pretty sure all that info except the height and age match. Lisa is blue eyed, blonde hair, and 30lbs.

The only differences is Lisa is 10 months, and 30 inches tall.

The weight, eye, and hair color are all the same.

Let me clarify, it struck me as odd like someone was collecting little ones, not that I thought it could be Lisa. I had an infant asleep on my chest and was having a difficult time trying type so it was short, lol. Also, it was lt brown hair, I had put two AA's together (I don't erase them). And I got another one changing it to a male, which is correct (I looked it up), so carry on. Sorry I strayed (and not very well either, lol)

 

[ela_ss teacher]

Am I the only one that kept the doors closed and the monitor off when my kids went down for the night??

No, you're not. I didn't even have a baby monitor when my 16 year old was a baby and I closed the door to her room when she was asleep so as not to disturb her. I honestly can't remember if I closed the door to MY room as well.

 

[nativeSFL]

Not sure if this has been posted or asked before: Has the 911 call recording been released to the public/media? Where I am that is released within a day or 2 of a high profile case.

 

[marge_rita]

What kind of a dog doesn't bark? I ain't buying that one, folks!

My dog never barks at people or cats. He's a shep-pit. He does bark at squirrels. With children growing up and staying out until late at night, my dog pays no attention to anyone coming in the house.


imo

 

[liltexans]

Am I the only one that kept the doors closed and the monitor off when my kids went down for the night??

No, you're not. This topic was extensively discussed in the last thread.

 

[TGIRecovered]

Sometimes people fall asleep without making the nightly rounds to turn out lights, close windows and lock doors. Sometimes they fall asleep before all of the little ones are safely tucked in bed. Sometimes people are so sound asleep that they are very hard to wake up.

Maybe they wake up and can't remember how they ended up in bed at all. Maybe they find other things amiss and they have to lie to explain it because they are too embarassed to admit that they just don't remember.

If this happened to a person, she would probably be very emotional, confused, maybe even prone to cry. She would probably be scared to death to believe that she might have done something unthinkable. There would be gaps in time which she could not explain.

Blackouts can be caused by prescription drugs, alcohol or combination of the two. I think that this is one possible scenerio which would fit the story we are getting.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

[bbm]

1. It seems very strange to me for a mom with a baby to close all the doors, baby monitor or not. Almost sounds to me like an excuse to not hear anything.

2. I hate to judge anybody else by my instincts, but I do believe that most mothers--even if they were heavy sleepers before becoming a mother--hear every single noise in the middle of the night, especially if it comes from their child. I think they often wake even when there was no noise. Part of God's gift to mothers. I'm having a LOT of trouble with the concept that she slept through all this.

3. When I've had dogs, I've noticed the bark has a subtle difference if it's a "significant" bark.

I keep trying so hard to believe in these parents but am having so much trouble the longer this goes.

I used to close my youngest child's door because my son was so noisy. But the baby monitor would be turned up in that case.

But knowing that the baby was ill it does make me wonder why the mom would not have been more attentive. A 10 month old can go from having a nasty cold to being very very sick in a few hours time. imoo She could have begun vomiting or coughing and in that case would need immediate attention.

I agree about the dogs. Especially since a german shepherd was next door. between the 2 dogs there, if an intruder was outside the window, or lurking in the shadows, the dogs would have gone nutz, in my experience. I suppose if the guy just walked in the front unlocked door that the dogs would have been less vocal though.

But then in that case, WHY would an intruder turn all the lights ON??? That seems counter intuitive.

 

[twall]

Just found this, but my phone said W/F, so i'm gonna guess the pic is correct and it is a M.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=672390

Thank you, the link now says he has been found safe and his father is in custody. Parental abduction.

Let's hope and pray Lisa's case has the same positive outcome!

 

[Celeste]

I am thinking of the son, M., who slept with the mom. I wonder if he was involved in some kind of accident with Lisa.

Now, was the child that was in Debbie's bed her biological son? Just curious.

 

[pinkfly]

I have been out of touch with the real world for 4 days and am sad that this little girl has not been found yet and also as I try to catch up with some quick scanning I see that the mood has also changed. I was so sure that these parents were innocent but now it seems like there is some question. So sad. Prayers for Baby Lisa

 

[Peliman]

Perhaps LE could re-enact the event to expose all these gaping holes in her story, as she watches the dog bark, etc. Then right there use the best confession getter on the FBI team they have and get the confession.

I agree, if the parents are cooperating. They should do a re-enactment of the events that evening, maybe it would fill in some gaps here. I see no reason they wouldn't.

 

[Ellebelle]

It is SE of KC. Google map says it is approx. 220 miles./4 hr. drive.
Rolla is where Rowan Ford was abducted, raped and murdered a few years ago but it turned out to be the step-dad and his friend that were responsible.

Do you have a link to the AA info?

I'm trying to catch up, so sorry if this has been corrected but I had to set this straight:

Rowan Ford lived in Stella, MO and that is where she was taken from.

I live in SW MO and can tell you that from our home which is farther South of KC, it doesn't take 4 hours to get to KC. Have family there and still visit often.

ETA: From our home in Joplin, MO it takes only 2 1/2 hours. Travel it often.

 

[dovebar]

The trouble I have with thinking the mom could have "done" something is that everything here being offered about dogs, noise, etc. shows how hard it would have been for her to do something without waking the kids and the neighborhood.

I can certainly hear a car (like the brother's) turning into the driveway of the house across the street, and it is noisy here, not a quiet neighborhood. I regularly wake up at 2 or 3 a.m. because this is happening.

Ditto the dogs - just because they knew her and the brother does not mean they wouldn't bark if a car pulled up.

If they wanted to make it look like an intruder took her, but had really harmed her, wouldn't they have staged more of a scene with the screen? Why admit she left the door unlocked? Why go to bed with the lights on - she wanted to police to think the intruder was dumb?

To me, it seems more likely that something happened, an intruder tested the screen but then thought to check the door, found it open, made enough noise to wake one boy but not the mom. Boy goes into her bed, she's tired enough that she does not rouse significantly. Next thing they all know, the father is home and wondering why all the lights are on.

And my family slept with all the doors closed because it saves on heating bills and means kids don't wake up to every little noise - like their dad who works the night shift coming home.