Conrad Murray Trial - Day Twenty Two

[peace9274]

Yes the CA trial seems to have had a huge effect on our justice system. Although I do not have a popular opinion, LOL, the state overcharged in that case without lesser charges and that is why she was acquitted. I actually agreed with the jury on that one. I believe she was guilty but they just just did not prove the degree of the charges they put forth. Had they been given lesser charges, CA would be spending at least 15 years in jail right now. I did not post much on the CA case because no one liked by opinions because I did not think the state proved their case as outlined but I was trying to weigh the evidence objectively.

In this case, they could have charged 2nd degree murder with a lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter and left it up to the jury.

BBM

I went through 2 trials very close together.
The first one was my divorce from a very short 2nd marriage.

My attorneys did an excellent job of presenting the facts and showed why both my ex-husband
and I should walk away from the marriage with $250k in cash, assets & investments each.

But Connecticut is not a community property state, so we had to go to trial. My ex-husband and his
attys hired witnesses to lie about me and also came each day with new outlandish, cruel lies about me.

My legal fees, over the 3 yr period, including the trial, came to just over $50k. I was awarded by the lady Judge,
$20k. Which means I was in the hole. I paid my atty more than I received!

I was devastated, in shock and furious at the judge's final decision.
It was so unexpected and so maddening what all my ex did, each
day in court, to get everything he got!

My attys seemed stunned and said they could not prove or disprove
what all my ex, his attys, and the phony witnesses said about me.

The final decision was up to the judge and who she believed.

I do have to add, that the judge did smile and laugh and leaned towards my ex
when he was on the stand. At first I blamed her for being so stupid and that she
could not see through his fake charm, charisma & lies.

But, then I had to keep telling myself that he had charmed ME, too!
And he had charmed many women before, during, and after our marriage.

What got me was though when 2 co-workers (who worked in a psychiatric hosp with me)
said I should've know better than to get wrapped up with a sociopath/psychopath!
That I should've been able to spot it, since so many of our patients were sociopaths, too.

But, there were the many others that reminded me that a sociopath is very hard to spot...
and easy to fall under their spell, because of their charm, charisma, and lies!

OK... sorry for the TMI.
I didn't mean to go on & on with that miserable part of my life! LOL

 

[Oldsoul2]

The very most time Murray can get with how he is charged is 4 years.

I have also read that due to recent changes in the law in the state of California he will be charged to serve only 2 years if convicted and the loss of his medical license.

 

[Talina]

Flipping channels and stopped on Fox News. Shepperd Smith show was on and I thought, ok a break from MJ for a bit. Low and behold, he has 2 attorneys on and they are going to talk about the trial.

The first to start was a criminal defense attorney and he starts off immediately spouting that this country's criminal court system yada yada yada, shouldn't be dealing with yada yada. Then he says this man's life is on the line - to which Shepperd interrups and says
:rocker:his life is on the line with involuntary manslaughter? Who's life was on the line when he walked out to make a call to his girlfriend? :rocker:
Not to miss a beat the criminal defense atty says people don't realize that when the judge gives the jury instructions they are going to say that in order for you to vote guilty the prosecution must have proved precisely what day and time of day he died and that CM personally injected the lethal dose of propofol. Say what? :banghead::banghead:

To which Talina said to the TV: you have no clue what you are talking about..see ya :seeya: got busy with the remote again channel surfing.

 

[Thundar]

I have also read that due to recent changes in the law in the state of California he will be charged to serve only 2 years if convicted and the loss of his medical license.

I have heard that too. I sure hope he looses his medical license. As far as I can tell he only lost it as a condition of bail, and that seems to be debatable at the least. It was posted in one of the earlier threads that he lost it as a condition of bail, but then at a hearing that order was rescinded. So I really can't tell if he has lost it as a condition of bail or not.

Hopefully he will loose it after the trial.

 

[peace9274]

I got an email stating that there are several "magical good days" this year....
all with multiple number ones in the dates.

Today, being 11-1-11 ... is one of them.

I hope today is a magical good day for all of you!

 

[Talina]

I have heard that too. I sure hope he looses his medical license. As far as I can tell he only lost it as a condition of bail, and that seems to be debatable at the least. It was posted in one of the earlier threads that he lost it as a condition of bail, but then at a hearing that order was rescinded. So I really can't tell if he has lost it as a condition of bail or not.

Hopefully he will loose it after the trial.

Here is an article from June 2010 where the judge ruled he could keep his license:
http://www.ktla.com/news/nationworld/ktla-conrad-murray-court-hearing,0,2920921.story

At the preliminary hearing, upon hearing the prosecution's evidence and witness testimony, the judge changed his ruling and suspended his license:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/12/local/la-me-conrad-murray-20110112

 

[Credence]

I know this is off topic and I in no way want to turn this into a CA thread but I'm curious about what you said. I thought there were several lesser charges included, not just 1st degree murder.

She could have been charged with child neglect (not supervising her properly) and illegally disposing of a body. In NY -- illegally disposing of a body carries 15 years and many have been convicted of it. I am not sure what the penalty would be in Florida but it is against the law. All of the charges she received is because they were intentional acts - and that is what was not proven IMO. I also do not believe Dr. Vass should have been allowed to testify under the Frye Act and do believe any conviction would have been reversed on appeal.

This is what she was charged with:

First-degree murder
Aggravated child abuse
Aggravated manslaughter of a child
4 counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer:

 

[Credence]

BBM

I went through 2 trials very close together.
The first one was my divorce from a very short 2nd marriage.

<Respectfully snipped>

OK... sorry for the TMI.
I didn't mean to go on & on with that miserable part of my life! LOL

Wow peace. So sorry you had to go through that.

 

[Isabelle]

I have also read that due to recent changes in the law in the state of California he will be charged to serve only 2 years if convicted and the loss of his medical license.

Loss of the Medical License nationwide would be perfect.

 

[borndem]

Everyone at the defense table looks very worried!

IMO

Pity, that!

I, like some others, think that CM did want to testify -- especially after Flan-again said that without it, he would probably be convicted......

I do wonder if CM had a plan and a dialog all ready to meet the PT -- "He was doing great. His heartbeat was strong, he was breathing deeply & well, his p/o was 98. I left him for only 2 minutes and he injected the propofol so fast, he died before I got out of the loo." Yep, that ought to do it. Then I can talk medical to Walgren and the jury will be amazed at what I say, and I'll be outta here! And if he is convicted, he will blame it on Cherny. And he will let the world know it. Or he'll get a one way ticket to Trinidad. Or both. JMO.

 

[borndem]

Listening to HLN -- even the attorney TH representing the defense side says he would find it difficult for the jury not to convict following CA law on involuntary manslaughter.
Michael Barnes also said if law followed; State has met the burden of proof re: elements to convict on involuntary manslaughter. Even the defense's own witnesses had to admit Murray had egregious violations in the standard of care.

BBM
That's what I want to see, Credence! I want to read how he is charged -- to see the law. I'm gonna start digging to see if I can find it unless some good soul on here knows where it is documented for CM's charge.

The jury instructions will probably have some of that language in it, and unless they "go OJ," they will have to find him guilty. IT DOES NOT MATTER from where or by whom the fatal dose of the propofol was found or given, it's deviation from SOC which is negligence by CM and no one else. Period.


This case really shakes my soul & makes me wanna holler. Grrrrrr.



pardon another one...

:rant:

 

[TxLady2]

Yes the medication can legally be left with the hospice patient and family (family has to give meds cause hospice nurse visits are intermittent, sometimes weekly). However, if the patient dies in the home, the on call hospice nurse must go to the home and waste remaining controlled medication with the EMT or Coroner's deputy as a witness. This is what I am told by friends who work in hospice.

My husband's sister died a few years ago in her home in Alabama, from cancer. We were there when she died, and the hospice nurse needed a witness while she wasted the remaining medicine. She asked me to do it, and I agreed. I had to sign a form, I think.

 

[TxLady2]

Wow, it looks like Walgren is a foot taller than Chernoff.

I noticed that!!! Cute, and tall too! WOW... I do love this guy! Makes ole Chernoff look plumb dumpy!

 

[borndem]

An older article about a bit of CM's past, if you're bored & want to see him with a beard & looking possibly like he might look in the jailhouse.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=8199286&page=1
----------------------------------------------

Advertisement by a Defense Firm in CA, but it has the actual legal definition and a textbook example. Also the law firm uses CM & MJ as their own example of one manner of I. M.
You'll have to mow through some of the firm's jibberty-jab, but it's good info.

http://www.shouselaw.com/involuntary_manslaughter.html
-------------------------------------------------------
Felony Complaint for the warrant:

http://dearconradmurray.com/documents/felony-command-for-arrest-warrant/

 

[Credence]

Felony Complaint for Arrest Warrant Dr. Conrad Murray:

http://dearconradmurray.com/documents/felony-command-for-arrest-warrant/


CA Law - Penal Code 192(b)

192:
Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without
malice. It is of three kinds:

(b) Involuntary--in the commission of an unlawful act, not
amounting to felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might
produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and
circumspection. This subdivision shall not apply to acts committed in
the driving of a vehicle.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/192.html

 

[borndem]

Originally Posted by outofstatelawyer [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7306946#post7306946"]

[/ame]
Omg on HLN Dr. White is on tape hanging out with the Murray supporters, standing right in front of a preprinted sign that Walgren "altered" evidence? OMG he may be charged with a third contempt.

You know, I wanted to kinda feel sorry for the guy but now...not so much!!
That was planned!!! The defense is playing dirty!

I don't have one bit of sympathy for the guy, but the more I think about it, and after seeing him say, "I'm just trying to get a cab," after he mowed thru that mini-mob, I think he may just be a bit of a bumbling nerd -- and that is NOT intended to be disparaging, ugly or mean-spirited about him, that's just how I see it now.

 

[borndem]

What sentence would he receive for involuntary manslaughter?

Up to 4 (four, only 4, Roman Numeral IV, the number between 3 and 5, or 2+2) long years.

Wow! Some trade-off, huh??? (Not intended at all, ~n/t~, to be smart-azz, just trying to show what a small number of years it is...)

 

[borndem]

I know this is off topic and I in no way want to turn this into a CA thread but I'm curious about what you said. I thought there were several lesser charges included, not just 1st degree murder.

ITA, Talina with you and Credence on the CA charge -- They shot for the moon and got nothing. I didn't bang on it too much either, Talina, at the time -- I remember "seeing" you both on that forum -- but I felt all along that they were putting all their eggs in one basket & should have given them a choice of 1st or 2nd -- in fact, it may very well have been 2nd DM.

 

[borndem]

Yes the CA trial seems to have had a huge effect on our justice system. Although I do not have a popular opinion, LOL, the state overcharged in that case without lesser charges and that is why she was acquitted. I actually agreed with the jury on that one. I believe she was guilty but they just just did not prove the degree of the charges they put forth. Had they been given lesser charges, CA would be spending at least 15 years in jail right now. I did not post much on the CA case because no one liked by opinions because I did not think the state proved their case as outlined but I was trying to weigh the evidence objectively.

In this case, they could have charged 2nd degree murder with a lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter and left it up to the jury.

ITA, Credence!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Pity, that!

I, like some others, think that CM did want to testify -- especially after Flan-again said that without it, he would probably be convicted......

I do wonder if CM had a plan and a dialog all ready to meet the PT -- "He was doing great. His heartbeat was strong, he was breathing deeply & well, his p/o was 98. I left him for only 2 minutes and he injected the propofol so fast, he died before I got out of the loo." Yep, that ought to do it. Then I can talk medical to Walgren and the jury will be amazed at what I say, and I'll be outta here! And if he is convicted, he will blame it on Cherny. And he will let the world know it. Or he'll get a one way ticket to Trinidad. Or both. JMO.

I think all the drama moment was orchestrated. There isn't one attorney on his DT that could have stopped him if he really wanted to testify but I do think he wants to project that idea out there so in the end if he is convicted he will come out all weepy and say he wanted to testify. Like if he had just testified he would have gone free. Right. :floorlaugh:

Like Beth Karas said today Murray puts a lot of thought in what he says before he says it and he tired to make it so melodramatic..using the great pause affect and all.:floorlaugh: Just like he was on the youtube video when he said he had told the troot.:floorlaugh:

When we know he cant handle the truth.

BTW, he traveled to Trinidad in 2005 promoting a spors drink and he took a harem uh I mean some ladies with him. Beth said he has another child living in Trinidad. He is from Grenada and I guess he can go back there and become a doctor again or like you say move to Trinidad where paying for one child is better than paying for several here.

IMO