2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

[pip]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53473091-78/call-powell-dispatcher-information.html.csp?page=2


-snipped-
Thompson also was concerned that the dispatcher’s lack of clear questioning led him to believe the situation at Powell’s home was not life-threatening despite the protestations of the caseworker.

"They are on polar opposites of the issues — he’s not asking questions to develop the information, and she’s not giving that information on her own to make that decision," he said.

But he doesn’t blame the caller. Few people in a stressful situation can organize their thoughts well on their own and quickly provide pertinent information. That’s why protocols and scripts are so important, he said.

"Would all of this have changed the outcome? It’s impossible to speculate, and you’ll never know," he said. "That’s why you do it correctly in the first place."

These are the points I was trying to make. Specific Protocols were not in place for the SW to activate an emergency call. The dispatcher also failed to ask the right questions. Valuable time was lost due to both parties in that call, IMO.

My feeling is that it still could not have been prevented, but also true that we will never know.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

OLYMPIA, Wash. - A state senator says police in Utah sent a "warning" to Washington state authorities about the welfare of Josh Powell's two young sons several days before he killed them and himself in an inferno.

State Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, says the information was sent to the state Department of Social and Health Services on Feb. 1, "at a time when something maybe could have been done to prevent what eventually did occur."

She says she has formally requested a copy of the information that was forwarded to DSHS.

“It appears DSHS was forewarned about information regarding Joshua Powell and the treatment of his boys,” said Roach. "DSHS needs to come clean with what they knew. Having information pertinent to the welfare of the Powell children, and not acting on it, may have actually contributed to their deaths."

A statement released by the West Valley City, Utah, police on Feb. 1 said that detectives had "discovered information specifically related to their (Powell) children's welfare," but it did not say what the information was.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...S-about-welfare-of-Powell-sons-139012979.html

 

[menmo]

Just decided to listen to the tapes and am more than just a little annoyed with the arrogant a$$ of a dispatcher the lady supervising the visits spoke with.
I mean it...I hate it when people lose their jobs but he needs seriously let go. Maybe he can flip some burgers somewhere.
She told him it was a high profile case. She told him it was Josh Powell and a high profile case. If you are from that area you'd pretty much have to live under a freaking rock to not know who Josh and his family members and their situation is.....he's a dispatcher for goodness sake!

They have to respond to emergency, life threatening situations first.-911 dispatcher
Well this could be life threatening-lady doing supervised visits
We'll have the first available officer contact you-911 dispatcher :what:

SERIOUSLY!?! I'm trying to feel some compassion for this jerk but I have none!

I feel for this woman and what she is going to mentally have to endure for a long time to come.

Wrap your loving arms around her, Lord, protect her and let her know that the only one to blame is Josh Powell.

MOO

 

[jadejazzkayla]

Troyer said the call was dispatched to deputies as routine. Deputies weren't told that the home belonged to Powell or that the caseworker had smelled gasoline, he said.

Had they been given that information, and had the call been deemed a priority call, he estimated the deputies could have shaved about five minutes from their response time. Troyer said additional time could also have been saved had the call taker handled the 911 call differently.

bbm...at the 1:40 mark, the 911 call taker was EXPEDITIOUSLY and EXPLICITLY WARNED of GASOLINE SMELL.

IMO - this is when the call taker should have contacted the police dispatcher. To wait 7 additional minutes is unconscionable imo.

Since the responding officers were not warned about the gasoline, I wonder if the 911 call taker told the dispatcher about the gasoline or not.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53473091-78/call-powell-dispatcher-information.html.csp?page=2


-snipped-
Thompson also was concerned that the dispatcher’s lack of clear questioning led him to believe the situation at Powell’s home was not life-threatening despite the protestations of the caseworker.

"They are on polar opposites of the issues — he’s not asking questions to develop the information, and she’s not giving that information on her own to make that decision," he said.

But he doesn’t blame the caller. Few people in a stressful situation can organize their thoughts well on their own and quickly provide pertinent information. That’s why protocols and scripts are so important, he said.

"Would all of this have changed the outcome? It’s impossible to speculate, and you’ll never know," he said. "That’s why you do it correctly in the first place."

These are the points I was trying to make. Specific Protocols were not in place for the SW to activate an emergency call. The dispatcher also failed to ask the right questions. Valuable time was lost due to both parties in that call, IMO.

My feeling is that it still could not have been prevented, but also true that we will never know.

I think her reaction was pretty normal. People faced with their worst nightmares often freeze, block out what is really going on or have a very hard time communicating it and I don't think there is any training that would prepare them for it. A perfect example is soldiers freezing up on the battle field after months of the most intensive training you can imagine.

It is very possible her brain was not allowing her to register that two boys she was in charge of just walked into a house which was soaked in gas and the monster dad would not let her in and just stared out the window at her.

 

[Cortne]

Just decided to listen to the tapes and am more than just a little annoyed with the arrogant a$$ of a dispatcher the lady supervising the visits spoke with.
I mean it...I hate it when people lose their jobs but he needs seriously let go. Maybe he can flip some burgers somewhere.
She told him it was a high profile case. She told him it was Josh Powell and a high profile case. If you are from that area you'd pretty much have to live under a freaking rock to not know who Josh and his family members and their situation is.

They have to respond to emergency, life threatening situations first.-911 dispatcher
Well this could be life threatening-lady doing supervised visits
We'll have the first available officer contact you-911 dispatcher :what:

SERIOUSLY!?! I'm trying to feel some compassion for this jerk but I have none!

MOO

I ask you to seriously reconsider? From my experience dispatchers are not that friendly and emotional on the job. In fact, IMO you are lucky if you get one that is very chipper on the job. This industry hits close to home, just sharing.
Of course you are entitled to how you feel and I do not blame you.
Lots of ball dropping happened here. I dont think it would have made much difference had he been nice. I also hope this male dispatcher has a good support group as I am sure he feels like a major jack aaa**!! And might be job-less too. He should have been more helpful for sure.

Group hug to all and RIP Susan Charlie and Braden.


* Never take anything personal *

 

[concentric]

I think her reaction was pretty normal. People faced with their worst nightmares often freeze, block out what is really going on or have a very hard time communicating it and I don't think there is any training that would prepare them for it. A perfect example is soldiers freezing up on the battle field after months of the most intensive training you can imagine.

It is very possible her brain was not allowing her to register that two boys she was in charge of just walked into a house which was soaked in gas and the monster dad would not let her in and just stared out the window at her.

---------
I agree with the posters who say there should have been more than one social worker with the children.

If there had been two, perhaps they would have collectively kicked the door in.

Powell was able to overpower the one person delivering the children. He planned this out, IMO.

JMO.

 

[Paige SC]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53473091-78/call-powell-dispatcher-information.html.csp?page=2


-snipped-
Thompson also was concerned that the dispatcher’s lack of clear questioning led him to believe the situation at Powell’s home was not life-threatening despite the protestations of the caseworker.

"They are on polar opposites of the issues — he’s not asking questions to develop the information, and she’s not giving that information on her own to make that decision," he said.

But he doesn’t blame the caller. Few people in a stressful situation can organize their thoughts well on their own and quickly provide pertinent information. That’s why protocols and scripts are so important, he said.

"Would all of this have changed the outcome? It’s impossible to speculate, and you’ll never know," he said. "That’s why you do it correctly in the first place."

These are the points I was trying to make. Specific Protocols were not in place for the SW to activate an emergency call. The dispatcher also failed to ask the right questions. Valuable time was lost due to both parties in that call, IMO.

My feeling is that it still could not have been prevented, but also true that we will never know.

No, we won't ever know. But we DO know the boys died of smoke inhalation (vs trauma) and their bodies were located in the living room behind the front door. With that being the case, 5-10 minutes COULD have made all the difference in the world in executing a successful rescue, IMHO. Not that it would have mattered but it could have.

 

[dovebar]

I ask you to seriously reconsider? From my experience dispatchers are not that friendly and emotional on the job. In fact, IMO you are lucky if you get one that is very chipper on the job. This industry hits close to home, just sharing.
Of course you are entitled to how you feel and I do not blame you.
Lots of ball dropping happened here. I dont think it would have made much difference had he been nice. I also hope this male dispatcher has a good support group as I am sure he feels like a major jack aaa**!! And might be job-less too. He should have been more helpful for sure.

Group hug to all and RIP Susan Charlie and Braden.


* Never take anything personal *

I agree. I'm not sure why it is forbidden for us to discuss the female social worker's response - perhaps in shock - but fine to bash the dispatcher. As we listen, it is easy and natural to have reactions to the way each of them sound. He seems clueless and dense and argumentative while she seems not to have called immediately, did not have her phone ready, and in her tone and in the first things she says to him, does not really raise an alarm. She sounds miffed that the door was shut in her face. BUT these are the reactions of people who are trying to rapidly process, mentally, events occurring around them that they cannot envision before the crime occurs. Only after the fact can we Monday morning quarterback and wonder why they couldn't put it together - but they were lacking the piece of information that was JP's brain.

I believe that they were each inadequately trained to deal with this once-in-a-career or life situation and believe the responsibility lies much further up with DFS and the judge, and legislators, who should never have allowed this kind of visitation given who the father was. They are the ones who, in calm moments, had access to research about the danger of this situation - a father who is a murder "person of interest" who's just been denied visitation. The whole scenario was a recipe for disaster and unfortunately, the people we have on tape are taking the brunt of our scrutiny. The best we can hope for is that the people responsible higher up will be held accountable, especially for changing laws and regulations, and that this will lead not to blame of a single individual but to protection of a whole lot of other children in bad circumstances.

 

[Paige SC]

i agree. I'm not sure why it is forbidden for us to discuss the female social worker's response - perhaps in shock - but fine to bash the dispatcher. As we listen, it is easy and natural to have reactions to the way each of them sound. He seems clueless and dense and argumentative while she seems not to have called immediately, did not have her phone ready, and in her tone and in the first things she says to him, does not really raise an alarm. She sounds miffed that the door was shut in her face. But these are the reactions of people who are trying to rapidly process, mentally, events occurring around them that they cannot envision before the crime occurs. Only after the fact can we monday morning quarterback and wonder why they couldn't put it together - but they were lacking the piece of information that was jp's brain.

I believe that they were each inadequately trained to deal with this once-in-a-career or life situation and believe the responsibility lies much further up with dfs and the judge, and legislators, who should never have allowed this kind of visitation given who the father was. They are the ones who, in calm moments, had access to research about the danger of this situation - a father who is a murder "person of interest" who's just been denied visitation. The whole scenario was a recipe for disaster and unfortunately, the people we have on tape are taking the brunt of our scrutiny. The best we can hope for is that the people responsible higher up will be held accountable, especially for changing laws and regulations, and that this will lead not to blame of a single individual but to protection of a whole lot of other children in bad circumstances.

awesome.

 

[AnaTeresa]

---------
I agree with the posters who say there should have been more than one social worker with the children.

If there had been two, perhaps they would have collectively kicked the door in.

Powell was able to overpower the one person delivering the children. He planned this out, IMO.

JMO.

Seriously? Kick the door in? This isn't a television show.

 

[concentric]

Seriously? Kick the door in? This isn't a television show.

Sorry, I think that if two people would have smelled the amount of gas fumes in that house, they would have validated their impressions with one another and decided to kick the door in. Especially, after hearing one of the children crying and screaming.

 

[21merc7]

I don't know if they would kick the door in, gas, fire and a fresh flood of oxygen would have made it worse. JP would have lit that fire long before any door kicking could happen, so the fire would have already been blazing, only resort would be hose it until they could get in.

 

[Spice]

Just decided to listen to the tapes and am more than just a little annoyed with the arrogant a$$ of a dispatcher the lady supervising the visits spoke with.
I mean it...I hate it when people lose their jobs but he needs seriously let go. Maybe he can flip some burgers somewhere.
She told him it was a high profile case. She told him it was Josh Powell and a high profile case. If you are from that area you'd pretty much have to live under a freaking rock to not know who Josh and his family members and their situation is.....he's a dispatcher for goodness sake!

They have to respond to emergency, life threatening situations first.-911 dispatcher
Well this could be life threatening-lady doing supervised visits
We'll have the first available officer contact you-911 dispatcher :what:

SERIOUSLY!?! I'm trying to feel some compassion for this jerk but I have none!

I feel for this woman and what she is going to mentally have to endure for a long time to come.

Wrap your loving arms around her, Lord, protect her and let her know that the only one to blame is Josh Powell.

MOO

As soon as she said that she was a social worker bringing children to a supervised visitation and was not let in.......that dispatcher should have treated it as an emergency situation. She even said " I am afraid for their lives, he went to court this week and did not get his kids back."

The dispatcher dropped the ball. BIGTIME.

 

[LinasK]

Troyer said the call was dispatched to deputies as routine. Deputies weren't told that the home belonged to Powell or that the caseworker had smelled gasoline, he said.

Had they been given that information, and had the call been deemed a priority call, he estimated the deputies could have shaved about five minutes from their response time. Troyer said additional time could also have been saved had the call taker handled the 911 call differently.

That's exactly what I guessed-he deemed it a low priority and didn't take the social worker seriously. This guy should be fired, not retrained, or given a pass because he has a stressful job/had a bad day, yeah he had a really bad day! His inexcusable delay may have made the difference between life and death for the Powell boys.

 

[MsWeatherwax]

Sorry, I think that if two people would have smelled the amount of gas fumes in that house, they would have validated their impressions with one another and decided to kick the door in. Especially, after hearing one of the children crying and screaming.

I'm going to go ahead and be completely honest here, even though it doesn't make me the bigger person. If I was in that situation (even with another person) and I smelled gas, there is no way I would go into the house. No way. I'd feel bad about it for the rest of my life, but my own family would come first. I dare say that trained fire-fighters would be reluctant to enter a house if they thought they were walking into a gasoline explosion.

 

[KMouse]

bbm...at the 1:40 mark, the 911 call taker was EXPEDITIOUSLY and EXPLICITLY WARNED of GASOLINE SMELL.

IMO - this is when the call taker should have contacted the police dispatcher. To wait 7 additional minutes is unconscionable imo.

Since the responding officers were not warned about the gasoline, I wonder if the 911 call taker told the dispatcher about the gasoline or not.

I cannot agree more. I am so angry over the gas issue. I cannot even express how angry I am.

Gas smell. I sure would like to know what the police were told about this call because if the gas issue was completely overlooked (and it sounds like it was) then a lot of other lives were placed in danger.
The social worker and the responding officer(s) could have also died had that house blown up when they were pounding on the door.

I have nothing but love for people that work in emergency response but I will say that the male 911 operator should be fired.

 

[LinasK]

I agree. I'm not sure why it is forbidden for us to discuss the female social worker's response - perhaps in shock - but fine to bash the dispatcher. As we listen, it is easy and natural to have reactions to the way each of them sound. He seems clueless and dense and argumentative while she seems not to have called immediately, did not have her phone ready, and in her tone and in the first things she says to him, does not really raise an alarm. She sounds miffed that the door was shut in her face. BUT these are the reactions of people who are trying to rapidly process, mentally, events occurring around them that they cannot envision before the crime occurs. Only after the fact can we Monday morning quarterback and wonder why they couldn't put it together - but they were lacking the piece of information that was JP's brain.

I believe that they were each inadequately trained to deal with this once-in-a-career or life situation and believe the responsibility lies much further up with DFS and the judge, and legislators, who should never have allowed this kind of visitation given who the father was. They are the ones who, in calm moments, had access to research about the danger of this situation - a father who is a murder "person of interest" who's just been denied visitation. The whole scenario was a recipe for disaster and unfortunately, the people we have on tape are taking the brunt of our scrutiny. The best we can hope for is that the people responsible higher up will be held accountable, especially for changing laws and regulations, and that this will lead not to blame of a single individual but to protection of a whole lot of other children in bad circumstances.

Because he screwed up big time- she didn't!

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Respectfully, I have read this thread from the beginning and have yet to see anything but support and sympathy for the monitor who contracted with CPS. (she is not a SW).

Now that may be because Mods were on top of things and quickly removed any of those type posts, but I haven't seen a one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've seen a couple of references that this lady was "not a social worker." Where is that information coming from?

The term "social worker" is often mis-used. A social worker is someone who has a degree in social work. He/she is then subject to licensure. It is a profession, not a particular job.

Social workers work in many areas, including supervised visitation, including contractual situations. So because someone is contracted with CPS to supervise visitation, that does not mean he/she is not a social worker.

Much MSM has referred to this lady as a "social worker." Of course, they may be wrong, but if they are, where is the link correcting this information?

 

[Paige SC]

I've seen a couple of references that this lady was "not a social worker." Where is that information coming from?

The term "social worker" is often mis-used. A social worker is someone who has a degree in social work. He/she is then subject to licensure. It is a profession, not a particular job.

Social workers work in many areas, including supervised visitation, including contractual situations. So because someone is contracted with CPS to supervise visitation, that does not mean he/she is not a social worker.

Much MSM has referred to this lady as a "social worker." Of course, they may be wrong, but if they are, where is the link correcting this information?

I don't know what her specific qualifications are but I think the term "social worker" is just an easy way of explaining john q public who she was in a general sense of the word. The agency she is associated with has their requirements and overall mission statement listed on their website. It's pretty easy to find, if that helps.