JonBenet – 15 years later

[UKGuy]

There is a contrast between the behavior of Father Rol Hoverstock and Reverend Dr. Frank Harrington.
Regardless of Jeff Shapiro’s observations, Steve Thomas’ observations seem to point more toward the possibility that there may have been a confession to the pastor in Atlanta as opposed to Rol, unless Rol simply had the ability to not arouse suspicion with the BPD.

The Reverend Rol Hoverstock told police about a phone call made that morning to Patsy’s parents, Nedra and Don Paugh, in Atlanta. Mrs. Paugh, he said, mentioned that Linda Hoffmann-Pugh had commented about how beautiful JonBenét was and expressed the fear that someone might kidnap her. The housekeeper’s name had come up several times in a short period, and police had already been told she had a key. She became the first suspect, and police made plans to contact her immediately.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 26

Father Rol Hoverstock came by the police department to give hair and handwriting samples—we were even checking out the family minister—and we asked his opinion about Psalms 35 and 36, without revealing why. That started him thinking about that book of the Bible, and when Detective Gosage and I met him later in the day at his home, Father Rol suggested that we take a look at Psalm 118. He thought it might be the origin of the $118,000 ransom figure. And in his sonorous voice, he read aloud one of the verses, which contained the phrase “bind the sacrifice with cords.”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, pages 68-69

Father Rol was trusted by both sides. Perhaps something might come of this. The next day I told him that the police department was willing, and all the Ramseys had to do was choose a time. “If they agree, we’ll be out there on the next thing smoking,” I said.
I did not mention that Commander Beckner had asked If it could wait fourteen days so we could get a better airfare.
A week later Father Rol showed up at our headquarters. Beckner joined us in a conference room, and I asked, “Any good news?”
Rol pursed his lips and shook his head. Team Ramsey lawyer Bryan Morgan had learned of the proposal and insisted on being at any meeting between the Ramseys and the Boulder cops. The pastor said he was “reamed” by the lawyer for becoming involved and had become so annoyed with the whole process, he vented his anger on all of us. “Enough of the ********,” Rol said.
But instead of an interview, all he could now offer was a meeting over coffee in the Ramseys’ living room. “That’s unacceptable,” I said. We weren’t about to fly to Georgia for a coffee klatch with a lawyer. “We’re back to square one.”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, pages 284-285

Trujillo and I went over to the Peachtree Presbyterian Church to talk with the Reverend Dr. Frank Harrington the next morning. He knew the family well, had married John and Patsy, buried Beth, baptized JonBenét, and had just buried her, too. If anyone could provide us with some insight, it should be the Reverend Harrington.
The minister met us with a frosty demeanor and a curt, “I’m not sure I want to talk to you. I will tell you I will share no privileged information.”
That set me thinking about the rules of privilege, in which information can legally be kept in confidence, such as between doctor and patient or lawyer and client. Also privileged would be a confession by a parishioner to a clergyman. “Is there privileged information?” I asked.
“I won’t answer that,” Harrington said. “Do I need an attorney?”
“We’re not here as adversaries, and you’re not a suspect,” I said, hoping to smooth things out. But we had to wait around for ten minutes until both a witness and a lawyer arrived, and our brief exchange yielded little information.
Why would a man of God reach for a lawyer rather than voluntarily give police everything he could to try to solve the terrible murder of a child, particularly if he wasn’t violating the sanctity of confession? But Harrington wasn’t alone in that peculiar behavior. I would repeatedly run into that same wall of silence, and more lawyers than I can remember, in the coming months. I wanted to scream at these people, “Don’t you even care?”
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, pages 98-99

cynic,

Why would a man of God reach for a lawyer rather than voluntarily give police everything he could to try to solve the terrible murder of a child, particularly if he wasn’t violating the sanctity of confession?

He might have been told something, or knew other information from prior contact, and had probably been told by Team Ramsey to make sure he had a lawyer present at any interview.


.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/02/02/43584.htm

Courthouse News Service
Thursday, February 02, 2012
Court Tosses Suit Over JonBenet Ramsey Rumor

(CN) - A Colorado appeals court refused to revive a lawsuit that claims a corrections officer started a rumor about a prisoner's involvement in the still-unsolved murder of Boulder's child beauty queen, JonBenet Ramsey.

Michael Rea claimed that a prison sergeant entered his cell and seized documents regarding the widely publicized 1996 murder of the 6-year-old girl.

 

[Tadpole12]

REA v. CORRECTIONS CORPORATION OF AMERICA
Jan 19, 2012


http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In COCO 20120119072.xml&docbase=CSLWAR3-2007-CURR

 

[Alix]

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/02/02/43584.htm

Courthouse News Service
Thursday, February 02, 2012
Court Tosses Suit Over JonBenet Ramsey Rumor

(CN) - A Colorado appeals court refused to revive a lawsuit that claims a corrections officer started a rumor about a prisoner's involvement in the still-unsolved murder of Boulder's child beauty queen, JonBenet Ramsey.

Michael Rea claimed that a prison sergeant entered his cell and seized documents regarding the widely publicized 1996 murder of the 6-year-old girl.

So a sex offender is whining about being caught with JBR materials? Or did I misunderstand?:waitasec:

 

[cynic]

Longtime Denver radio (KHOW 630) talk show host, Peter Boyles, looked back at the case during his December 28, 2011 show.
http://www.khow.com/main.html

I remember one of the FBI agents in a conversation saying to me, “this ain’t no whodunit.”
-Peter Boyles

Guests:
Julie Hayden
Don Wrege
Peter Fotopoulos

Seven segments, total time: approximately 63 minutes.
Part One:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CWu3MFSN5c"]PB1 - YouTube[/ame]

Part Two:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bXkQQOpPgM"]PB2 - YouTube[/ame]

Part Three:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ci1eBKPd8"]PB3 - YouTube[/ame]

Part Four:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykr4GOnxfGs"]PB4 - YouTube[/ame]

Part Five:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjZL8k6GE3M"]PB5 - YouTube[/ame]

Part Six:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr6rDbiIk3k"]PB6 - YouTube[/ame]

Part Seven:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDjayIrUmgE"]PB7 - YouTube[/ame]


Parody songs featured during the show:
Paula the Brown Nosed Newsie (Re: reporter, Paula Woodward)
Werewolf of Boulder
Big John “They were playing every citizen for a fool.”
Only in Boulder “Only in Boulder, Key evidence, Is shared with the prime suspects”
The (Ransom) Letter “Start off the first sentence "Listen carefully," Misspell some words so they don't think it's me. Use your other hand, make an odd demand. We'd better write us a letter.”
(Hang Down your Head) Tom Koby “Turn in your badge Tom Koby, You probably let 'em get away”

Listen to all 14 parody songs here: (Full lyrics included.)
http://www.simulstream.com/mp3.html

 

[Tadpole12]

JONBENET RAMSEY INVESTIGATOR RELEASES FREE BOOK ON BULLYING & CHILD SAFETY

http://profilingyourlife.com/blog/jonbenet-ramsey-investigator-releases-book-bullying/

Feb 1, 2012

Dale Yeager a Criminal Behaviour Analyst, who worked for the Boulder District Attorney's office in 1997 on the original murder investigation of JonBenet Ramsey, has released a book on bullying titled "3 Myths About Bullying" What Every Parent and Grandparent Should know to Protect Children and Grandchildren. The book focuses on inaccurate information about bullying that Yeager says can endanger children.

 

[BBB167893]

Parody songs featured during the show:
Paula the Brown Nosed Newsie (Re: reporter, Paula Woodward)
Werewolf of Boulder
Big John “They were playing every citizen for a fool.”
Only in Boulder “Only in Boulder, Key evidence, Is shared with the prime suspects”
The (Ransom) Letter “Start off the first sentence "Listen carefully," Misspell some words so they don't think it's me. Use your other hand, make an odd demand. We'd better write us a letter.”
(Hang Down your Head) Tom Koby “Turn in your badge Tom Koby, You probably let 'em get away”

Listen to all 14 parody songs here: (Full lyrics included.)
http://www.simulstream.com/mp3.html

You've started it now, cynic! It so happens I have a few lyrical waxings myself! With profuse apologies to Hank Williams Jr., Travis Tritt and Grace Slick!

Ramsey Family Tradtion (sung to the tune of "Family Tradition" by Hank Williams Jr.)

Well John and Patsy Ramsey

Such a close-knit family

But most of the American people

Don't believe 'em anyway, ya see

Stop and read the case file, Stan Garnett

Before you make your decision

You might get it right

Though yer not too bright

It's a Boulder County tradition!

The ol' system's got problems

That is plain to see

There's one set of rules for the rich

Another one for you and me

The police didn't want to play ball

Linny Winny told 'em you got to

The Rs bought their way out

That's what I'm talking about

And Mikey spreads the doo-doo!

I'm gonna tell ya just what I think

And I'm not gonna blink

And I don't have big name shysters to whom the DA is linked

Yeah, I am my own man

Even though it does give me some friction

If I smell somethin' wrong

I'm gonna come down strong

It's a SuperDave tradition!

I am very proud

of my country's name

but a case like this makes me hang my head

it is just a shame

John Lou Lin and Mikey can have each other

At least Patsy showed some contrition

"Please move on

We are standin' strong"

It's Ramsey family tradition!

I'm gonna tell ya just what I think

And I'm not gonna blink

And I don't have big name shysters to whom the DA is linked

Yeah, I joined the Collective

Even though the implants give me some friction

If I smell somethin' wrong

I'm gonna come down strong

It's a SuperDave tradition!

It was so sloppy all around

Everything so amateurish

But Johnny had all his millions

And Patsy was a good-looking dish

How could you do such a terrible thing

Why put yourselves in the position

If you run out of luck

Use the almighty buck

That's a Ramsey family tradition!

A certain trailer park woman

Set me on the road to assimilation

Now I'm saying my part

I'm singing from the heart

Against the RST abomination

Jammy, if you'd been nicer

I might not have changed my position

You wanted a fight

You got one all right

That's my Irish family tradition!

People ask me, "Why do you post

Why do you make note

When will we get to read

That book that you wrote?"

Stop and think it over

put yourself in my unique position

I gotta be true

Why wouldn't you

It's a family tradition!

I'm gonna tell ya just what I think

And I'm not gonna blink

And I don't have big name shysters to whom the DA is linked

Yeah, I joined the Collective

Even though the implants give me some friction

If I smell somethin' wrong

I'm gonna come down strong

It's a SuperDave tradition!

And:

The Kool-Aid Ain't Workin' Anymore (to the tune of "The Whiskey Ain't Workin'" by Marty Stuart and Travis Tritt.)

There was a time

I could drink the facts away

And deny all of the reasons

that hounded me all day

When the thought of truth came crashin' through

I'd have one more

But now the Kool-Aid ain't workin' anymore!

Finally:

Red Dragon (with updated lyrics) (Sung to the tune of "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane)

One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small
And the ones that voynich gives you don't do anything at all
Go ask Tricia when she's ten feet tall
And if you go chasing rabbits
And you know you're going to fall
Tell them a fire-breathing dragon has given you the call
Recall JB when she was so small
When men on the crime board get up and tell you where to go
And you've just read some kind of web links, and your mind is running low
Go ask DeeDee...I think she'll know
When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead
And the doggy is talking backwards
And the RN's "OFF WITH HER HEAD"
Remember what SD said
Feed your head
Feed your head

Enjoy! I'm trying to do one of "Rocket Man" by Elton John right now.

 

[BBB167893]

The radio broadcast should be required listening. Peter really nails the people responsible for helping the killers walk. Personally, I don't have the facility to tell you what I think should happen to them.

 

[butwhatif?]

I thought I would start a thread for people's comments as another anniversary approaches.

15 years later and still no justice for JonBenet.
Misinformation still abounds as Aphrodite Jones aptly demonstrated with her abysmal, error-filled “documentary” earlier this year.
John Ramsey is still self-absorbed and has affirmed this by writing yet another self-serving book.
While Mary Lacy’s reign of incompetence has ended and the current DA has un-cleared the Ramseys, it seems that little has changed.
BR has chosen to continue the family legacy of evading police and hiding behind lawyers.
The silver lining continues to be the small community of people here and elsewhere that have preserved the truth of the case and continue to keep it alive.

BBM- I just saw this streaming online yesterday.

One thing that made no sense to me at all was the focus they put on the footprints. They assumed that only the perp could have left those footprints. Yet they had how many people tour the house at that time?

They didn't mention that the footprints could have been left by any of the people that toured the house, or the LE that were at the scene. :doh:

And the handwriting expert made no mention of that atypical 'g' of Patsys.

I don't have all the answers, but it's a shame that the show was focused on trying to exclude the Ramseys and make it look like they were thrown under the bus, instead of just presenting the facts and evidence with no bias.

 

[DeeDee249]

BBM- I just saw this streaming online yesterday.

One thing that made no sense to me at all was the focus they put on the footprints. They assumed that only the perp could have left those footprints. Yet they had how many people tour the house at that time?

They didn't mention that the footprints could have been left by any of the people that toured the house, or the LE that were at the scene. :doh:

And the handwriting expert made no mention of that atypical 'g' of Patsys.

I don't have all the answers, but it's a shame that the show was focused on trying to exclude the Ramseys and make it look like they were thrown under the bus, instead of just presenting the facts and evidence with no bias.

Not only that, but that particular brand of shoe/boot (Hi-Tec) was popular with many people working in LE. We know that BR did own a pair of Hi_Tec sneakers. But that print was never tested against them.

 

[Nova]

...Burke has proven himself to be weak. He's his father's son....

I don't know Burke Ramsey and I don't believe anyone else here knows him. Many if not most people tend to side with their families unless confronted with absolutely irrefutable evidence--and sometimes even then!

If young Mr. Ramsey is loyal to his father and suspicious of LE, I don't think we need to judge him negatively for it. It's hard for me to see how he could be anything else.

 

[DeeDee249]

It is completely understandable that BR sides with his family. But- as has been said before- until the perp(s) is identified BY NAME, ALL persons who were in that house during the time the murder occurred are and will remain suspect. BR is "cleared" because of his AGE. It isn't so much that he is cleared, but rather that he cannot EVER be considered a suspect because he was under 10 at the time. As far as these forums, which are opinion ONLY, he remains suspect to many here.

It is true that only the parents fibers are present on the body and crime scene, but anything linking BR to the crime would not even be included in evidence at all, and never made public, so we don't know if there is any fiber or other evidence linking him to the crime. It is also true that the Hi-Tec print We don't know if a plaster impression of that print was made, do we? And obviously BR's Hi-Tec sneakers are no longer around.

There was a comment from Coroner Mayer that he found a partial fingerprint on the body. However, he made a decision not to put it in his report.
This was a CHILD MURDER, with sexual contact. Don't you think a fingerprint ON THE DEAD BODY would be important in the investigation? To me, his decision not to include it is most suspicious and I have to say I can think of only one reason why.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...2f84WA?docId=3e71bfa8218c419eaf13277ab9724c73

Feb 24, 2012
Australian inquest opens in dingo-baby mystery

SYDNEY (AP) — A coroner on Friday opened Australia's fourth inquest into the most notorious and bitterly controversial legal drama in the nation's history: the 1980 death of a 9-week-old baby whose parents say was taken by a dingo from her tent in the Australian Outback.
Azaria Chamberlain's mother, Lindy, was convicted and later cleared of murdering her and has always maintained that a wild dog took the baby. She and her ex-husband, Michael Chamberlain, are hoping fresh evidence they have gathered about dingo attacks on children will convince Northern Territory Coroner Elizabeth Morris and end relentless speculation that has followed them for 32 years.

 

[UKGuy]

It is completely understandable that BR sides with his family. But- as has been said before- until the perp(s) is identified BY NAME, ALL persons who were in that house during the time the murder occurred are and will remain suspect. BR is "cleared" because of his AGE. It isn't so much that he is cleared, but rather that he cannot EVER be considered a suspect because he was under 10 at the time. As far as these forums, which are opinion ONLY, he remains suspect to many here.

It is true that only the parents fibers are present on the body and crime scene, but anything linking BR to the crime would not even be included in evidence at all, and never made public, so we don't know if there is any fiber or other evidence linking him to the crime. It is also true that the Hi-Tec print We don't know if a plaster impression of that print was made, do we? And obviously BR's Hi-Tec sneakers are no longer around.

There was a comment from Coroner Mayer that he found a partial fingerprint on the body. However, he made a decision not to put it in his report.
This was a CHILD MURDER, with sexual contact. Don't you think a fingerprint ON THE DEAD BODY would be important in the investigation? To me, his decision not to include it is most suspicious and I have to say I can think of only one reason why.

DeeDee249,

but anything linking BR to the crime would not even be included in evidence at all, and never made public, so we don't know if there is any fiber or other evidence linking him to the crime.

So is it safe to assume that BR is not linked to the Hi-Tec print?


.

 

[UKGuy]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...2f84WA?docId=3e71bfa8218c419eaf13277ab9724c73

Feb 24, 2012
Australian inquest opens in dingo-baby mystery

SYDNEY (AP) — A coroner on Friday opened Australia's fourth inquest into the most notorious and bitterly controversial legal drama in the nation's history: the 1980 death of a 9-week-old baby whose parents say was taken by a dingo from her tent in the Australian Outback.
Azaria Chamberlain's mother, Lindy, was convicted and later cleared of murdering her and has always maintained that a wild dog took the baby. She and her ex-husband, Michael Chamberlain, are hoping fresh evidence they have gathered about dingo attacks on children will convince Northern Territory Coroner Elizabeth Morris and end relentless speculation that has followed them for 32 years.

Tadpole12,
Poor woman, had her baby stolen by a dingo, then was vilified by the media. Just to remind everyone, fours years after her baby was taken, the childs blood-stained clothing was found in a dingo's den.



.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

So the Ramseys were cleared in a very controversial move...whereas the Chamberlains haven't been cleared...32 years later....even though there's a lot more evidence that they weren't involved in their baby's death...

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,

So is it safe to assume that BR is not linked to the Hi-Tec print?


.

Assume no such thing. Because he has not been linked publicly does not mean he has not been linked at all. And just because the print may have been matched to BR's Hi-Tecs doesn't mean the existence of the print itself cannot be made public. Only the link to BR is secret, not the physical evidence. The same applies to the partial fingerprint the coroner found on the body. The existence of the print, though not put in the written report, is still known. Wether it was matched to anyone, including BR, was not made public.
While the presence of the Hi-Tec print is well known and documented, it has never been publicly linked to BR. However, we do know that BR TOLD police he owned a pair of Hi-Tec sneakers (even though his parents said he did not), but is has never been made public whether BR's sneakers (if they still existed) were ever tested to see if they match the print.

 

[UKGuy]

Assume no such thing. Because he has not been linked publicly does not mean he has not been linked at all. And just because the print may have been matched to BR's Hi-Tecs doesn't mean the existence of the print itself cannot be made public. Only the link to BR is secret, not the physical evidence. The same applies to the partial fingerprint the coroner found on the body. The existence of the print, though not put in the written report, is still known. Wether it was matched to anyone, including BR, was not made public.
While the presence of the Hi-Tec print is well known and documented, it has never been publicly linked to BR. However, we do know that BR TOLD police he owned a pair of Hi-Tec sneakers (even though his parents said he did not), but is has never been made public whether BR's sneakers (if they still existed) were ever tested to see if they match the print.

DeeDee249,

While the presence of the Hi-Tec print is well known and documented, it has never been publicly linked to BR. However, we do know that BR TOLD police he owned a pair of Hi-Tec sneakers (even though his parents said he did not), but is has never been made public whether BR's sneakers (if they still existed) were ever tested to see if they match the print.

This is similar to the size-12's. If neither parent owned Hi-Tec sneakers then knowing BR owned a pair puts him in frame immediately. The only point of contention is the timeframe.


.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249,

This is similar to the size-12's. If neither parent owned Hi-Tec sneakers then knowing BR owned a pair puts him in frame immediately. The only point of contention is the timeframe.


.

Unfortunately, like fingerprints, that shoe print cannot be dated. It's presence there could have come long before the murder, or been left at the time of the murder, or been left by one of the LE who were in that room after she was found. That brand of shoe makes a type of service oxford that is favored by LE as well as contractors. BUT- its location so close to the body and its relatively non-smudged condition leads me to believe that it was recent. It's hard to imagine that print not being smeared away during the placement of the body in the wineceller and the unwrapping of the boxes, etc. The mould on the floor of the wineceller was soft and easily brushed away. That kind of white mould is very common on damp concrete or cinderblocks. It leaches right through the porous material.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I found some interesting info just snooping around:

Here's Burke resume: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/burke-ramsey/1a/6b8/b6b
He's been working in the Indianapolis area since January.

I also found Burke's Google + profile. There's nothing on it except you can see his friends. One of his friends is John Andrew Ramsey. One of John Andrew's friends is Brad Millard. Remember him? I also know that Burke remained friends with Doug Stine.