FL - 17-yo Boy Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #2

[LolaMoon08]

So one news agency is reporting that a witness said Trayvon was attacking GZ, has this been discredited? I'm just reading up on this one.

Can you post a link? I haven't heard any witnesses coming forward to say that Tray was attacking Zimmerman. All the people who called 911 couldn't even see what was going on to give any kind of description? Where did this witness come from? Don't tell me he just came forward?

 

[annalia]

Sorry if this was posted:
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16192139

Speaking before the investigation was announced, Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee Jr told a local newspaper: "The hysteria, the media circus, it's just crazy. It's the craziest damn thing I've ever seen, and it's sad."

HE'S SAD ....a very very sad man IMHO

For the chief, it seems to be a case of reaping what you sow. He chose to come out as GZ's defense attorney before he ever had the facts and without bothering to get the facts. He has no right to cry now. He pretty much publicly declared Tray guilty.

JMHO

 

[ynotdivein]

Initial SPD report (note that the form is clearly designated "Partial Report Only").

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

This is Florida, home of the Sunshine Laws... I hope someone has filed to access the autopsy report. The angle/trajectory of the bullet that killed Trayvon is, IMO, a HUGE missing piece of this puzzle.

 

[HiHater]

So one news agency is reporting that a witness said Trayvon was attacking GZ, has this been discredited? I'm just reading up on this one.

Link?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Can you post a link? I haven't heard any witnesses coming forward to say that Tray was attacking Zimmerman. All the people who called 911 couldn't even see what was going on to give any kind of description? Where did this witness come from? Don't tell me he just came forward?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...n-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

 

[LolaMoon08]

710,000 signatures and counting!! 290,000 more to go before we hit a million!!

http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin


ETA: That is 100,000 signatures since I started keeping track at 3:52 this afternoon! Amazing!!

 

[Adrienne37]

Oh my mercy, I'm stunned just looking at Zimmerman's 911 call logs all the way back to 2004.

 

[HiHater]

"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

(From that link: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1piJcN5C0 )


Who did John tell to stop? Stop what, screaming?

 

[HiHater]

Oh my mercy, I'm stunned just looking at Zimmerman's 911 call logs all the way back to 2004.

SPD should calculate how much $, time, and manpower was wasted responding to those calls (the ones that resulted in nothing happening). I'm about his age, and I've called 911 three times in my entire life. He hadn't been the NW Captain for that long...

 

[ynotdivein]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...n-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

Horace, there are a number of inaccuracies in this report. Perhaps the most obvious is that Tracy Martin is Tray's father, not his mother as indicated in this story.

For anyone just stepping in, I'd encourage skimming through thread #1. Also check out the dates on older stories (this one came out Feb 27, and was updated Mar 14, but still gets TM's father's gender wrong, for example).

 

[LolaMoon08]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...n-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation

I think we should know exactly what Zimmerman was wearing because some say he was wearing a white T-shirt. Other's say a red T-shirt. This guy says a red sweater? If it was a red sweater, I wonder if it was a hoodie?

Still contradicts a lot of the call and statements already made by LE in this case? We'll see! I want to see Zimmerman's written/recorded original statements to LE!

 

[Horace Finklestein]

(From that link: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1piJcN5C0 )


Who did John tell to stop? Stop what, screaming?

""The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.

John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.

"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

So I read that to mean Trayvon was attacking GZ and then was the guy who ended up on the ground dead. Wikipedia has some links that seem to cover different angles of this.

 

[BuzzieCat]

I still don't understand about this "stand your ground" law. If someone claims self defense under SYG, then the police are not allowed to investigate? They can't check to see if each party's injuries, any witness statements, autopsy reports, and any other available information corroborate the self defense claim?

I mean, I guess I'm just surprised if that is really the case. I know that's what the SPD claimed, but is it really true?

 

[deelytful1]

(From that link: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1piJcN5C0 )


Who did John tell to stop? Stop what, screaming?

This report also says "He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1piLLRMJ2

So... huh? Shoddy reporting I think

 

[belle3]

But how would not prosecuting make things right? :waitasec:

Sorry, I worded that completely wrong. I meant the opposite. Sorry:-(

 

[Adrienne37]

Trayvon Martin's Mother 'Can Not Eat,' While Lawyer Expresses Concerns Over Grand Jury

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/20/trayvon-martins-mother-speaks_n_1368597.html

 

[Sensei]

(From that link: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1piJcN5C0 )


Who did John tell to stop? Stop what, screaming?

Yes, it is this type of thing that makes it clear that we need the Autopsy reports, they need to show evidence that the gunshot was very close, in fact the only way this can be possible is if it is a contact wound with gsr all over the front of Tray's shirt, and of course I would bet they don't have GZ's shirt to confirm the gsr all over it which would be there if Tray was shot while on top of GZ. Angle of the wound would also tell a lot about the position of each man, and this scenario still begs the question of how Tray's body ended up face down with his hands under him when LE found him...

So many question and just no answers, not because they weren't there, but because nobody cared to look for them.

 

[annalia]

Yes, it is this type of thing that makes it clear that we need the Autopsy reports, they need to show evidence that the gunshot was very close, in fact the only way this can be possible is if it is a contact wound with gsr all over the front of Tray's shirt, and of course I would bet they don't have GZ's shirt to confirm the gsr all over it which would be there if Tray was shot while on top of GZ. Angle of the wound would also tell a lot about the position of each man, and this scenario still begs the question of how Tray's body ended up face down with his hands under him when LE found him...
So many question and just no answers, not because they weren't there, but because nobody cared to look for them.

my bolding

Great point, and if Trayvon was on top of GZ wouldn't GZ have been covered in blood?

 

[Sensei]

I still don't understand about this "stand your ground" law. If someone claims self defense under SYG, then the police are not allowed to investigate? They can't check to see if each party's injuries, any witness statements, autopsy reports, and any other available information corroborate the self defense claim?

I mean, I guess I'm just surprised if that is really the case. I know that's what the SPD claimed, but is it really true?

No, it is not true, they are allowed to investigate, they are allowed to collect all the facts and the evidence. They could then give all the evidence along with their best rendering of the facts to the prosecutor.

Self defense, or SYG is a Courtroom defense, not a blanket cease and desist order for the police. The police are NOT supposed to make a determination as to whether SYG is a viable claim, they are simply supposed to determine the facts all of them, or as many as they can to the highest degree of accuracy that they can attain, and turn the evidence over to the prosecutor.

The fact tht they didn't investigate this death was not because they couldn't, it was because they really didn't think they had to.

 

[Reader]

I still don't understand about this "stand your ground" law. If someone claims self defense under SYG, then the police are not allowed to investigate? They can't check to see if each party's injuries, any witness statements, autopsy reports, and any other available information corroborate the self defense claim?

I mean, I guess I'm just surprised if that is really the case. I know that's what the SPD claimed, but is it really true?

Please do not go by what SPD did or the excuses they have given for not handling this case as they should.

They should have investigated all factors of the case, both sides, as usual, including what you listed above. Then the file goes to the SA to decide if charges are to be brought. If charges are made, then GZ can have his lawyer file that he is going to declare he should not be charged under the 'stand your ground' law.

The case goes to a judge and both sides bring evidence regarding if he is eligible to not be charged under the SYG law. If he wins, it's over and he cannot even be sued. If the prosecutor wins, it goes to trial.

Link added to an example of a 'SYG' case that was upheld and charges dropped:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/