trial thread: 3/22/2012

[snoofer]

I remember in the video of the abduction that Tori and TLM seemed to be walking quite fast with TLM leading and Tori almost running to keep up...like there was some urgency. I can't see IMO that being about going to see a dog....it isn't what it looks like to me. It looks like TLM was in control, there was urgency and Tori felt she must follow and hurry. So I really do wonder what it IS she said to Tori...I don't believe it was come see my doggy. I think she IMO used something that made Tori believe there was an urgent situation and hurry up. Also, whatever it was she said to Tori ..TLM seemed rather confident that Tori would follow as she was slightly ahead of Tori.

 

[brighidin]

Exactly. If he had nothing to hide then he could have assisted LE with the investigation and he could ber the one up there testifying.
How does one explain things like removing the back seat of the car?

She strong-armed him into letting her use the car and when she brought it back, the seat was gone? And he didn't tell anyone about it. :waitasec:

 

[dilbert]

This would take some research or a legal expert, but IMHO, I doubt that two people accused of the same crime, both incarcerated, one awaiting trial, would be allowed to even write to each other, much less talk on the phone, or see each other in person. I'd bet quite a bit of money on this. If anyone knows the law about this, I'd love to hear it.

JMO

If they had any kind of communication you can bet it was intercepted by prison staff and forwarded to the Crown.

 

[Wondergirl]

This would take some research or a legal expert, but IMHO, I doubt that two people accused of the same crime, both incarcerated, one awaiting trial, would be allowed to even write to each other, much less talk on the phone, or see each other in person. I'd bet quite a bit of money on this. If anyone knows the law about this, I'd love to hear it.

JMO

Just to clarify, I meant did TLM and MTR both attend the preliminary hearing in January?

It's likely they did not attend, but, I wondered if TLM changed her mind on her testimony after seeing him in person?

 

[swedie]

If there is one thing I've learned so far, it's that Terry Lynne McClintic has a reason to be vengeful. Against an awful lot of people, starting within her own family. What we have also learned in the past couple of days is that she has never kidnapped or killed any of them. With the exception of her mother, she has never even assaulted any of her "enemies" outside of prison walls.

She has been sexually assaulted by likely more than one man in her youth, with her "mother" turning a blind eye to it. We've read news articles from people who knew her and her mother, who painted her mother as pretty abusive towards her growing up. So she did finally assault her, twice, but she never hacked her up and mutilated her. Her father pretty much abandoned her but she's never sought him out for revenge. She's spent years in detention centres where it's a fight for respect every day I'm sure...but she's never tried to get her "crips posse" together to take revenge out on anyone after getting out. None of the people who have made TLM's life a living hell were ever abducted, assaulted and killed by TLM.

So why would a perceived snubb by some woman who decided not to breed her dog with her mother's dog set off an act so vengeful that not only did she bypass the person or persons who had actually ticked her off, she went straight to their 8 year old innocent daughter?

It's going to take a whole lot of psychiatric experts to explain that one to me.

But whatever the motive, which so far I am not convinced was anything other than sexual, the question is, what is the point of the defence strategy? Either MR was there or he wasn't.

MOO

:clap::blowkiss: Great post Kamille! I still want to see this information where it's stated in TM testimony CM or TLM were snub because TM decided she didn't want to breed her dog with theirs. I never heard that before until tonight when Dilbert made that claim. Do you have that link Kamille. TIA

 

[snoofer]

TLM is a smoker...did she quit..or how is she affording to smoke.

 

[dilbert]

One of Russell Williams lawyers discusses the defence strategy on Connect with Mark Kelley.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/News/TV_Shows/Connect_with_Mark_Kelley/1305591601/ID=2213971998

 

[maxfactor]

I guess it depends on how good someone's eyesight is and how observant they are. (I went to CASS too )

There ya go, we have something in common after all.

 

[snoofer]

..and how is MTR getting ahold of so many "twinkies" in prison..where r they getting the money or is there an all you can eat buffet of smokes and food in prison. IMO

 

[maxfactor]

TLM is a smoker...did she quit..or how is she affording to smoke.

I'm pretty sure smoking was banned in all Federal Institutions a few years ago, not sure if it got overturned though.

 

[dilbert]

There ya go, we have something in common after all.

I never doubted that we did

 

[maxfactor]

..and how is MTR getting ahold of so many "twinkies" in prison..where r they getting the money or is there an all you can eat buffet of smokes and food in prison. IMO

lol, inmates can have money put in their account by family or friends, they can use it to buy snacks etc. In the Federal Institutions inmates can "work" and they get paid a small amount which goes into the account.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I was wondering also what happened in January to make her change her story, she wouldn't be allowed to see him but may have had a letter or 3 way call. Seems very strange to me.:moo:

Didn't she say it came up whilst she was having a counseling session with her counsellor?

 

[antiquegirl]

I was wondering also what happened in January to make her change her story, she wouldn't be allowed to see him but may have had a letter or 3 way call. Seems very strange to me.:moo:

I find it hard to believe that they would be allowed to communicate at all, but any letters would be intercepted and read by prison officials. Phone calls would be monitored and recorded. IF permitted. It does sound a bit strange, but I can only deduce that this counselor was pretty good at his or her job. JMO

RaffertyLFP:

McClintic said she had discussions with counsellor in Jan/12 which led to her admission that she and not Rafferty had killed Tori

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

McClintic had planned on telling police herself. Told the counselor, then police came to speak to her. McClintic "accepted" killing Tori

 

[daisy.faithfull]

So January 2012 is the first time that TLM ever said that she killed Tori?

 

[ChaChaCha]

If they had any kind of communication you can bet it was intercepted by prison staff and forwarded to the Crown.

Exactly Dilbert! Communication or meetings between inmates incarcarated in different institutions .... um, no... it is one of the rights they give up when they are convicted. The only time they have privacy to visit is when their lawyer comes to call when there is a serious matter involving lawyer confidentiality. (that is why lawyers always go to the prison ... instead of Skype lol) Everything that goes in and out whether phone calls, faxes, emails, omg letters! anything is tracked and recorded ... and as you can tell from today's testimony, copies made and put in the inmate's file. The same with visitors ... they are vetted and logged. All records can then be produced if there is a problem - like the young gal here in Kitchener that took her own life .... there were reams of material at the inquest.

No, if those two had communicated at all there would be records and the defence team would have brought it up under cross examination of TLM...

To clarify ... I am referring to the big institutions with the people who are serving long sentences ... if MR is being held in the London Detention Centre it is basically the same thing as opposed to the smaller jails and holding facilities in local cities.

 

[antiquegirl]

Just to clarify, I meant did TLM and MTR both attend the preliminary hearing in January?

It's likely they did not attend, but, I wondered if TLM changed her mind on her testimony after seeing him in person?

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just tired, but what preliminary hearing in January?

 

[antiquegirl]

So January 2012 is the first time that TLM ever said that she killed Tori?

That is correct.

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow

It wasn't until Jan. 13 this year, Derstine says, that McClintic recanted earlier statements and said she wielded the hammer, not Rafferty.

 

[swedie]

Not necessarily true. MTR is a known ladies man. These types may be very confident around women but not so much around men. From what I've read about him he seems very much like a poser and a whimp and a coward. More comfortable around women than men.

Conversely TLM has a hard image in female detention centers but she longed fir love and attention. As MTR reportedly told her, "you'd do anything for a bit of love". She fell for MTR at a pizza joint only to hours later have sex with him.

I believe MTR could have manipulated her and he was far from a "normal guy".

Wimp and manipulator I totally agree CC. Ladies man? Let's say a wannabe ladies man. Great post CC. Speaking of liars, MR was a fabulous liar. We haven't even heard from this guy yet but it's apparent he has told so many lies. I don't even know where to begin. His educational background, his employment, that fact that he was cheating on women and dating more than one at a time. Stealing money from a girlfriend he was living with (maybe freeloading as he was known to do). Oh shall we start with all of MR's lies?! If we dig deep enough he's probably told just as many damaging lies as TLM. Oh let us talk about his violence while we're at it. Weren't the police called to his mother's home because of domestic violence? Could he have been abusive to his mother, no not financially but physically? So who's the better liar and criminal now? JHMO A liar is a liar is a liar no matter how bad the lies are. :moo:

 

[ChaChaCha]

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just tired, but what preliminary hearing in January?

Nope ... you are wide awake. There was no preliminary in January or any other time ... the case went directly to trial.