17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[HiHater]

Zimmerman did not have on a white t-shirt. Police described him wearing red jacket.

I wonder what was under that red jacket...

 

[Concerned Papa]

Zimmerman said it was a cut-through street and he didn't know the name of it. This is what makes me believe he might have been looking for a street sign so that when LE called him back, he would know what to tell them.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but there's only three streets in that development.

 

[Inabsentia]

They've said he was both standing and kneeling in various reports. Their story is really bizarre.

The report I saw that seemed the clearest seemed to indicate that he was kneeling over Trayvon's face down body, in a straddling position, with one knee on either side. They didn't convey it very articulately, though. I saw that report quite awhile ago, but I'll give a quick look for it.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

ITA about the "choices" Storm - but getting out of the vehicle wasn't the worst.

1) He got out of the vehicle
2) He took the gun with him
3) He confronted the "suspicious" person that he'd already called LE about

And the LAST, WORST bad choice that GZ made was

4) He pulled the trigger.

Period.

Even after the gun is drawn - unless they were actually fighting over it, each one trying to overpower the other and it went off (which I don't think that is at all what happened).

So, GZ now has the gun drawn - most people, even when fighting, once they see a gun - they tend to stop what they are doing. GZ has the gun drawn - he didn't need to pull the trigger - THAT was HIS WORST CHOICE and what has us all here.

He pulled the trigger.





JMHO

 

[ScubaTwinn]

And why was TM wearing a hoodie on a Florida night that is warm anyway?

Respectfully snipped for space.
It was 60 degrees that night. I will find the link.

 

[Sensei]

Maybe he was in shock that he just shot and killed a person, just speculation.

I do not deny that as a distinct possibility, although I begin to wonder what he thought might be the result of following a teen that he himself said, "There's something wrong with him, might be on drugs or something" and, "he 's got something in his hands, his hands are at his waist"

he is a criminal justice major, he was enamoured of police, he was at the neighborhood watch meeting and knew about not carrying a gun and or confronting people, he had gone through the process to get a permit to carry which I had assumed gave some information on staying out of situations where you might be forced to shoot, and yet all the information we have shows that he and his loaded gun followed Trayvon and put himself in precisely that situation, in spite of dispatch, and all his training.....IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[RANCH]

I hadn't seen anything about GZ in a red jacket, do you have a link? Thanks.

But I believe the witness on 911, apparently police took no crime scene photos, didn’t look for blood/skin/tissue on sidewalk where his head was supposedly banged, didn’t take shooter’s clothes, didn’t test shooter for drugs/booze, immediately accepted GZ's version of events despite unarmed dead victim, etc, jmo. If they did complete these investigative tasks I think they'd release the findings to show GZ wasn't at fault as they claim. jmo.

BBM
It's in the police report.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[francie]

Yes the man in white was TM greys would appear as white at night ,GZ had on red shirt unless something different has come out.Red does not look like white at night .

I disagree. A white T-SHIRT is not a HOODIE. Zimmerman was wearing the white t-shirt. jmo jmo

 

[jjenny]

I disagree. A white T-SHIRT is not a HOODIE. Zimmerman was wearing the white t-shirt. jmo jmo

Again, he wasn't. Look in the police report. He had on a red jacket.

 

[Adrienne37]

Zimmerman said it was a cut-through street and he didn't know the name of it. This is what makes me believe he might have been looking for a street sign so that when LE called him back, he would know what to tell them.

This man lived there since 2009. As much "patrolling" that he did of his neighborhood, you can bet your last dollar that he knew every nook and cranny of that place so his story about a cut-through street is completely bogus. It was the only excuse that he could come up with on the fly to make them believe his story.


~jmo~

 

[HiHater]

Took notes during Lawrence O'Donnell's show...found these things interesting...

Detective Serino told Lawrence O'Donnell that he is looking forward to the truth coming out, and feels good about the new investigators...cannot speak because of the department's rules. Recall Det. Serino is the original investigator who wanted homicide charges against Zimmerman.

Joe Oliver and Zimmerman only know each other socially...they worked together...Joe Oliver is not working currently, no one is paying him to go in the media though...

Oliver and Zimmerman spent time together at work, have been alone together pretty much only at work; other times were family gatherings. Never had discussions about Zimmerman's experiences with law enforcement, Joe Oliver was never told about the arrest in 2005, but learned about it later.

Lawrence O'Donnell say the cop Zimmerman assaulted says Zimmerman walked up to a pal under arrest and started talking. He refused to leave or stop talking (?) Zimmerman pushed the officer after cursing him, and a short struggle ensued. Joe Oliver says George may have been drinking that night.

Joe Oliver knew Zimmerman since Zimmerman met his wife, Shellie. Shellie was likely aware of previous charges (and domestic violence), but Oliver was not.

He went through anger management (part of pre-trial diversion)--Zimmerman.

Zimmerman talked to Joe Oliver on Saturday, no lawyers present was not set up by lawyers. Conversation was necessary in order to publicly defend him. Joe Oliver says he had a turning point, but will not share what it was. Lawrence O'Donnel doesn't want to hear the "talking points" of Joe Oliver.

Joe Oliver says he has a "gut feeling" about what happened. It's instinctual, he's had it validated by info that has been leaked. If we weren't talking about George shooting Trayvon, we'd be talking about Trayvon shooting George..

George was not pursuing Trayvon with his gun drawn.


Joe Oliver says he hears goons and c*ons.


Zimmerman talked about his desire to be in law enforcement, Zimmerman was a criminal justice major, and he wanted to do police work and become a lawyer.


His relationship with George is not a "close friend" it is more of an older uncle, he's old enough to be Zimmerman's father...They've had general discussions. Never discussed neighborhood watch.


Law enforcement has not interviewed Joe Oliver, even though he had an "unprotected" conversation with Zimmerman.


Lawrence O'Donnell said Joe Oliver was saying wildly nutty things yesterday, and that Joe Oliver's role doesn't make sense.

 

[m00c0w]

I hadn't seen anything about GZ in a red jacket, do you have a link? Thanks.

But I believe the witness on 911, apparently police took no crime scene photos, didn’t look for blood/skin/tissue on sidewalk where his head was supposedly banged, didn’t take shooter’s clothes, didn’t test shooter for drugs/booze, immediately accepted GZ's version of events despite unarmed dead victim, etc, jmo. If they did complete these investigative tasks I think they'd release the findings to show GZ wasn't at fault as they claim. jmo.

Why do you feel they took no crime scene photos, and didn't look for tissue on the sidewalk? I'd like to see some evidence of this. The article that's stated they've collected his clothing has been posted here multiple times. They didn't conduct a blood test because you have to have probable cause to compel someone to undergo an invasive medical procedure. They also took him to the police station and conducted a videotaped interview.

 

[csziggy]

I don't think anyone beleives that Zimmerman deserved to be killed because he was following someone, but neither did Trayvon. Trayvon was not the one with a loaded gun, and I would really like some corroborating evidence that would show me that Zimmerman did not attempt to restrain or stop Trayvon before the fight started, some evidence that would show that he really was in a fight that was significant enough to make him fear for his life from an unarmed teen, something other than simply his word for it. I would really like some evidence that makes sense to show my why an unarmed teen would brutally attack the stranger that was following him.

I could very well be wrong, but I just can't make sense of a kid with no weapon turning and engaging viciously someone that he was not sure did not have a gun, someone moreover who would and should have cleaned his clock for him, with the weight advantage that he had.

Zimmerman's version of the story:

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

If that is true, maybe when GZ reached for his cell phone, Trayvon saw the gun in GZ's waistband and thought that was what GZ was reaching for. Trayvon could have thought he had to attack before GZ got his hand on that gun and punched GZ.

That would mean that TRAYVON was the one who was in fear for his life and thought he was fighting a crazy who was ready to shoot him.

The tragedy would be that if that were true, both men were in fear fighting for their lives because ***GZ*** had set up a situation in which communication was cut off and pure gut fear was what was ruling both of them.

Frankly, I don't believe GZ's story, but this could be one explanation.

 

[vlpate]

If you use Google Street view for 1960 Oregon Avenue, Sanford, FL you can see where the brick wall ends and a row of mutilated crape myrtles screens that side of the subdivision from the main street.
1960 Oregon Avenue, Sanford, FL - Google Maps

It really would not be a shortcut though, it would just let someone walk less distance along the main road and be able to walk along the presumably quieter subdivision streets.

Because of the lakes behind the various subdivisions, there is really no shortcut from where Trayvon was staying and the 7-Eleven.

He said cut-through, not short cut. If you look at this map, it is the thin arrow going right

[/IMG].

 

[LambChop]

It does not matter what they told him at NWP because that was when he was on his watch.When he went to go out he was just like anyone else he had a right to have his gun in his holster.

NWP is just that, a watch. They are not suppose to patrol. They do not perform the duties of a security system. Neighbor watch is a program not a position. They are never suppose to presume they are acting as a police officer. Read the manual. There is nothing in there that says you are anything but a private citizen asked to report suspicious behavior, that's it. All the residents were told the same thing. No one is more responsible than the other. Other than one person may be assigned to touch base with someone from LE about having an information meeting that was where his "duty" stopped. jmo

 

[Yoda]

First article account by Miami herald: march 3 2012

"A Miami teenager visiting family in Central Florida is coming home in a casket.

Trayvon Martin, 17, was visiting family members in Sanford when he was shot to death by a man at a convenience store on Monday night.

The teen walked into the store to buy ice cream and Skittles. He had $22 in his pocket.

About 100 feet from the building, Martin was confronted by an armed man who shot him dead, said his uncle Ronald Fulton, who lived with the teen. There were no witnesses."

It is great that we have this forum to debate and discuss on, but soon we are going to have to open forums down in the basement to quote from msm! Our sleuthers here gather better information from police reports, government records, etc. then msm.

 

[francie]

Bad link.

It still works for me.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/2...os-after-florida-teen-is-shot/?iref=allsearch

 

[Adrienne37]

As to the question regarding why Trayvon was wearing a hoodie on 02/26/2012 is completely and totally irrelevant to what took place. First off, it was 61 degrees, it was rainy. Secondly, Trayvon is from Miami where it is significantly warmer than Sanford is. Perhaps he felt chilled. Again it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to what happened. Last and certainly not least, it's of no relevance period unless you are Geraldo Rivera. Kids now days where Hoodies. It's not a crime and it doesn't give anyone the right to shoot and kill an unarmed child.


http://www.wunderground.com/history...ty=Sanford&req_state=FL&req_statename=Florida

~jmo~

 

[mikeysmommom]

The two lady witnesses who were on tv said when they looked out Zimmerman was knelt down on the body with his knees on each side of the body and his hands on Martin's back. They said they yelled at him several times and he just looked at them then said call he cops.



What was he doing?

Sounds like after the shot,TM in white shirt who was on top fell over like 911 witness said.GM might have straddled him maybe he tried to see if he had pulse?maybe in shock checking neck for a pulse. realized he was gone then was standing pacing like in shock then yelled call cops JMO as the 911 calls seemed to play out when I heard them.

 

[annalia]

As to the question regarding why Trayvon was wearing a hoodie on 02/26/2012 is completely and totally irrelevant to what took place. First off, it was 61 degrees, it was rainy. Secondly, Trayvon is from Miami where it is significantly warmer than Sanford is. Perhaps he felt chilled. Again it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to what happened. Last and certainly not least, it's of no relevance period unless you are Geraldo Rivera. Kids now days where Hoodies. It's not a crime and it doesn't give anyone the right to shoot and kill an unarmed child.


http://www.wunderground.com/history...ty=Sanford&req_state=FL&req_statename=Florida

~jmo~

Especially considering that GZ was wearing a jacket.