17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[RANCH]

What does did not cycle mean?
Tia

In a semi-automatic firearm when it's fired it automatically reloads another round of ammunition into the firing chamber. That's a cycle. If something prevents the slide or gun mechanism from working the cycle is incomplete.

 

[Nana46]

I heard him say it on NG tonight... NG aired tonight at 8:00 pm and then again at 10:00 pm EST..

That is what I thought he said also Em. Glad I wasn't hearing things,lol.

 

[HiHater]

I cannot fathom how anyone can say Trayvon was in a white t-shirt. I believe George Zimmerman himself says that Trayvon has on a DARK hoodie. George Zimmerman probably got a longer look/glimpse at Trayvon than anyone, and he does not say the hoodie was white or even light-colored. He says the opposite---it's dark.

It makes more sense that someone in a jacket would have a t-shirt on underneath. How does that jacket come off? During a struggle or before a fight..IMO

When does dark mean white or light colored?

Only in the same case where "we don't need you to do that" actually means "go right ahead." :twocents::moo:

 

[Sensei]

But prosecution can not just say "his account i suspect because he is going to come up with an account that is advantageous to himself." They need to have evidence that contradicts it. And if he actually was the one screaming on those tapes then I would say the person screaming is at the very least in distress.

IF they are able to do a voice analysis, and IF the voice is that of GZ, then it is obvious he was in distress at that time, but it still does not mean that TM is the one who first attacked or that he did not compound his previously stupid actions with one more stupid action and try and detain or subdue TM.

 

[m00c0w]

I agree, but I am almost 60 years old, and I don't know how old you are but Trayvon was 17 and many kids don't have a lot of impulse control at 17 George Zimmerman was 28 and had a loaded gun and should have known better IMO JMHO and stuff

If an individual lets words get them heated to the point of putting a person in reasonable fear of their life, then I'd say there are issues there that should have been addressed long before.

 

[jjenny]

I cannot fathom how anyone can say Trayvon was in a white t-shirt. I believe George Zimmerman himself says that Trayvon has on a DARK hoodie. George Zimmerman probably got a longer look/glimpse at Trayvon than anyone, and he does not say the hoodie was white or even light-colored. He says the opposite---it's dark.

It makes more sense that someone in a jacket would have a t-shirt on underneath. How does that jacket come off? During a struggle or before a fight..IMO

When does dark mean white or light colored?

Only in the same case where "we don't need you to do that" actually means "go right ahead." :twocents::moo:

Well police show up and Zimmerman is still in his jacket, and his jacket is wet on its back, which clearly suggests Zimmerman was in his jacket all alone.

 

[bessie]

I'd be very interested to read the affidavit filed by the lead homicide investigator who wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.

[Lead investigator Chris] Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.

According to "sources", the affidavit recommended that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter, but state attorney Norman Wolfinger overruled the charges because "there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction."

The state attorney's office refused comment.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...n-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3KJSdWibbh

 

[francie]

Trayvon had been found with jewelry and a "break in" device in his back pack at school and the jewelry didn't belong to him, <modsnip>, and he defaced public property. He may very well have been casing houses that night. He could very well have been acting suspicious. It's not out of the realm of possibility. There were previous issues so I am drawing conclusions. JMO

LE is not trying this case in the court of public opinion, the family of Trayvon is.

Do we know for a fact about jewelry, etc in his backpack, is it in a report from his school or a police report? I haven't seen anything, not that reports of this don't exist of course.

I disagree that LE is not trying to sway public opinion because THEY released GZ's unsubstantiated claims of that night. And what about Zimmerman's crew out there on TV every second of every day? Joe Oliver and that lawyer have been on every show known to man pleading GZ's case, lol. jmo.

 

[m00c0w]

Do we know for a fact about jewelry, etc in his backpack, is it in a report from his school or a police report? I haven't seen anything, not that they don't exist of course.

I disagree that LE is not trying to sway public opinion because THEY released GZ's unsubstantiated claims of that night. And what about Zimmerman's crew out there on TV every second of every day? Joe Oliver and that lawyer have been on every show known to man pleading GZ's case, lol. jmo.

It was a report from the school, but the family said they never knew about the jewelry and screwdriver specifically. They confirmed everything else.

 

[Sensei]

If an individual lets words get them heated to the point of putting a person in reasonable fear of their life, then I'd say there are issues there that should have been address long before.

I was speaking of who struck the first blow, and not reasonable fear of their life....since I personally find it ludicrous that a man who had a loaded gun, and went to some trouble and ignored any and all training and advice that he had from both getting the carry permit and attending the neighborhood watch meeting, and any other classes he might have taken...could go from large and in charge following this kid that he just knew was one of those that always get away, to in fear of his life from the same unarmed teen in a matter of less than 2 minutes...

Maybe it's just me, but I seriously have to doubt how reasonable that fear was, because his judgement hasn't shown much reasonableness thus far.

 

[HiHater]

Well police show up and Zimmerman is still in his jacket, and his jacket is wet on its back, which clearly suggests Zimmerman was in his jacket all alone.

Yes, but do you think it's possible that he had on a white t-shirt underneath it? It was dark out, so a witness may not have described the red (harder to see jacket) and just said white because that may have been more visible. IMO

I cannot see a person described a gray (dark) hoodie as a white t-shirt. That makes no sense to me at all.

 

[RANCH]

I cannot fathom how anyone can say Trayvon was in a white t-shirt. I believe George Zimmerman himself says that Trayvon has on a DARK hoodie. George Zimmerman probably got a longer look/glimpse at Trayvon than anyone, and he does not say the hoodie was white or even light-colored. He says the opposite---it's dark.

It makes more sense that someone in a jacket would have a t-shirt on underneath. How does that jacket come off? During a struggle or before a fight..IMO

When does dark mean white or light colored?

Only in the same case where "we don't need you to do that" actually means "go right ahead." :twocents::moo:

The police report describes Trayvon wearing a grey hooded sweatshirt and GZ wearing a red jacket.
If there really was someone there wearing a white t-shirt then there's a third person. Or maybe someone is mistaken about colors.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[rotterdam]

I didn't at first, but the more i Learn from reading about this case, the more I tend to believe that TM attacked Zimmerman. That statement, "He's coming to check me out" tells me that GZ was not following TM at that time, since TM was coming toward GZ. Also the fact that GZ suffered a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. He had wet grass on his back which supports the eye witness' account that GZ was on his back and TM on top of him. TM was not a little kid as portrayed by the media picture. He was around 6 feet tall and did not look skinny to me. He was an athlete which means he probably was in pretty good physical condition to go along with his size. This is all my opinion only and could change as more information comes out like what was the trajectory of the bullet. That would show the position of both parties when the bullet was fired. Autopsy will show whether TM had any other injuries besides the gun shot wound. Things like this are what is going to tell the truthful story.

I dunno , when Tray went up to GZ to check him out, GZ had been following him in his car and GZ was still in the car. It could have been as innocent as to check if GZ was somebody Tray knew and when he saw a strange silent white dude , he ran. Also remember that Tray was just 17 alone and black. A none talking staring white guy , unmarked car and in street clothes probably scared Tray more than if GZ would have been black or could be identified as a watch man/security guy. There are still some white supremacists out there who do not like black teenagers.

 

[SuziQ]

Lets look at the fatal event and go backwards. I've been giving lots of thoughts to Trayvon's GF's account. I don't think her statement will be allowed at trial. I think it will be hearsay or severely limited. We know Trayvon ran and there is no evidence he ran due to criminal activity. So we go backwards. The last I can determine is that according to GZ's words to 911 "they always get away" and "effing g****or c**** and he leaves his vehicle. We do not know and probably will never know what happened between then and the fatal shot. So how is it going to be determined who was the true aggresor and the true victim that initiated the final incident?

 

[Chris_Texas]

Me too. I came to this case convinced that GZ was a crazed vigilante who intentionally instigated the confrontation.

Actually, we KNOW he was a vigilante and we KNOW he instigated the confrontation. Hell, he even defied police instructions in order to do so. He saw a black kid in a hoodie, and in his mind that was all the provacation he needed.

But with facts as they are, I no longer believe that. Neither do I place any blame on the victim, TM. I think it was a tragedy that fell together like dominoes. TM and GZ both misread each other. Sadly, GZ was armed.

TM certainly did not misread GZ, he knew the guy was dangerous. He didn't know how dangerous, he didn't know his stalker had brought a gun.

Unless new facts come to light, such as bullet trajectory, I can't see that, legally, there's much of a case. And I fear that we will never know the truth.

Perhaps, but self defense is not something you can claim without proof -- and it is reasonable to say that someone who stalks, pursues, and confronts an innocent juvenile forfeits any right to such a claim. We teach kids to fight, to attack and kick and bite and scream, but apparently some would have us apply a different standard to teaching black kids.

These folks believe that black kids shouldn't do ANY of that stuff. Black kids should be taught that people are going to suspect them based on nothing more than the color of their skin. Black kids should be taught NOT to fight back, and if a stranger follows them they should stop immediately with their hands in plain sight, and answer any questions the stranger might demand. If they feel forced to fight, they need to be taught that they should never ever attempt to WIN.

Rights? Those are for non-black kids, and they need to know it. Black kids need to know that they don't have the right to not be followed, the right to privacy, the right to do whatever the hell they want up until the point that they break an actual law and are lawfully detained by legitimate law enforcement.

Other than reporting his racist suspicions, which everyone has the right to do, GZ never had the legal authority to do ANY of the things he did. He took that authority upon himself, and he needs to face the consequences.

In my opinion

 

[m00c0w]

I was speaking of who struck the first blow, and not reasonable fear of their life....since I personally find it ludicrous that a man who had a loaded gun, and went to some trouble and ignored any and all training and advice that he had from both getting the carry permit and attending the neighborhood watch meeting, and any other classes he might have taken...could go from large and in charge following this kid that he just knew was one of those that always get away, to in fear of his life from the same unarmed teen in a matter of less than 2 minutes...

Maybe it's just me, but I seriously have to doubt how reasonable that fear was, because his judgement hasn't shown much reasonableness thus far.

I, personally, do not believe that merely taking a punch or two should be considered a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury. Being pinned on the ground, getting your head smashed in would. I fully agree that Zimmerman should face some serious punishment if he initially laid hands on Martin, or if he wasn't in nearly the danger he's portraying himself to have been in.

 

[csziggy]

I want to know how long George Zimmerman has had that gun and the permit to carry.

It would be interesting to know if he has had them for years, or if he just got them two or three months ago. It would not stop me from thinking that there should be a crime labelled criminal stupidity, and that he should be arrested for it, but maybe it would relieve my mind that it wasn't a shiny new gun, and new permit to carry and he was all adrenalin pumped to let everyone know he had them and USE it.

From this review, it looks as though that model gun has only been out a couple of years:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/10/don-gammill-jr/gun-review-kel-tec-pf-9-9mm/

 

[m00c0w]

Lets look at the fatal event and go backwards. I've been giving lots of thoughts to Trayvon's GF's account. I don't think her statement will be allowed at trial. I think it will be hearsay or severely limited. We know Trayvon ran and there is no evidence he ran due to criminal activity. So we go backwards. The last I can determine is that according to GZ's words to 911 "they always get away" and "effing g****or c**** and he leaves his vehicle. We do not know and probably will never know what happened between then and the fatal shot. So how is it going to be determined who was the true aggresor and the true victim that initiated the final incident?

Certain aspects, such as the shoving, would be hearsay. Martin describing what's going on would not. Present sense impressions would be the most relevant exception to the hearsay rule.

Hearsay is also not excluded from the grand jury proceedings, although it will not be allowable in the actual trial.

 

[vlpate]

Misread each other? Zimmerman shot and killed a kid armed with candy and iced tea.

Which he put down in order to punch GZ in the nose.

TM was running, not far from home - 2 minute head start on the overweight (depending on who you believe), GZ. Trayvon had a cell phone. Why didn't he just GO HOME. Why, in those two minutes, if he was so scared, didn't he dial 911? Why didn't his girlfriend?

 

[rotterdam]

I'm just not sure why these two females have an entirely different account from everyone else that was involved.

Not sure but could they be the same that heard two shots first?