17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

[annalia]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting-burglaries/index.html
The incidents occurred over 14/15 months.
~"City officials posted police reports to the city website detailing eight burglary reports in the neighborhood in the 14 months prior to Martin's February 26 death." ~

~"In three of those incidents, black males were implicated by witnesses or arrests. A fourth incident was less clear."~

~"In the other four incidents, there were no witnesses or suspects, according to police reports."~

Thank you, I meant to bookmark it and I forgot.

 

[jjenny]

Thank you button was insufficient. Several of the bill's authors and supporters have stated use of this law in this circumstance is not appropriate and they are very concerned that the SYG law is being improperly applied across the state.

I find this alarming.

I don't see how they can claim it's not appropriate if one believes the story GZ came up with.

 

[katydid23]

IMO hosing down neighborhood kids who are behaving in a way you find inappropriate or mean is a very immature act for an adult to indulge in.

While I applaud GZ for noticing a child being bullied and wish more people would get involved when they see bullying, I don't think hosing down bullies at all changes their behavior and may encourage them to seek out retribution from their prey at a later date.

Immature action that did nothing to solve the underlying problem this bullied child was experiencing.

:cow: :moo:

It might be considered immature.

My DH did the exact same thing a couple of years ago because a group of bratty middle schoolers were throwing eggs at our next door neighbors house. They were mad because he complained about their Bball Pole thing being left out at the end of the street all of the time and he complained that they were sneaking into the community pool after it closed. He made those complaints because his wife was an invalid and had trouble sleeping,and when the kids swam and played BBall late at night it kept her awake.

They began throwing things like eggs at their house at night. One time my DH was outside with the hose cleaning out the garbage cans in our side yard and he saw them sneaking up with eggs. So he sprayed them then and there. I LOVED it. Maybe it was immature, but so were they, imo. And it showed them that others KNEW what they were up to.

I just think it is silly to take that as 'proof' that GZ is a killer. IMO

 

[HiHater]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting-burglaries/index.html
The incidents occurred over 14/15 months.
~"City officials posted police reports to the city website detailing eight burglary reports in the neighborhood in the 14 months prior to Martin's February 26 death." ~

~"In three of those incidents, black males were implicated by witnesses or arrests. A fourth incident was less clear."~

~"In the other four incidents, there were no witnesses or suspects, according to police reports."~

So that means there's basically a 50/50 chance that any given burglar would be black or white. IMO JMO MOO

 

[LinasK]

I don't see how they can claim it's not appropriate if one believes the story GZ came up with.

Because George admitted to the 911 dispatcher that he was following him- that negates the law right there!

 

[jjenny]

Because George admitted to the 911 dispatcher that he was following him- that negates the law right there!

It doesn't, because following is not illegal. Nowhere in the law does it say that if you follow someone, you can not use stand your ground defense.

 

[Concerned Papa]

If GZ were threatening him, calling him names, etc...then I could see TM being terrified. I see absolutely no way that he would be "terrified" just because he thinks someone is following him. He easily could have run home if he were that desperate and fearful.

I agree with you. He could have run home if he was desperate and fearful, and I tend to think that's exactly what he did.

(a) We know he was running because GZ told us he was:

Zimmerman:

He’s running. [2:08]

(b) We know he was running straight in the direction of his home because GZ also told us that:

911 dispatcher:

He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

(c) We know that within reason his home was around a football field's length away from where he started running, because Tracy Martin told us:

(d) It doesn't take long to calculate that if he was running at a 9 mph average running speed it would only take him about 23 seconds to get there. [2:31]

That's just what makes the most sense to me. I can't see him taking off running, as GZ said he did, but stopping before he got to his home. I also can't see him running past his home.

What happened in the 5 minutes or so between then and when he got shot has different possibilities. Anything I said would be pure conjecture on my part, but going home is fairly well grounded in the facts as we know them.

 

[JeannaT]

An interesting article about voice recognition technology.

In this article, apparently it's common to get a suspect to say the same words as are in the sample, so that the suspect and sample can be compared word for word.

I'm really still surprised that no one in the media has brought up what appears to be a huge problem here - the "suspected shouter" isn't really saying many words, but rather making sounds.

I have a hard time thinking you could get a clear identification of either of the men just by comparing to usual speaking voice. It will be interesting, if it's ever done, to compare Trayvon's speaking voice to the screams and see if they can get a clear idea. I just don't see how.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/george-zimmerman-voice-recognition-120404.html

 

[tlcya]

I don't see how they can claim it's not appropriate if one believes the story GZ came up with.

As they are the authors of the actual bill, I am assuming they claim it is being misapplied to this case because they know what they were trying to accomplish by introducing it and subsequently passing it - and this is NOT it.

I will take their word as the ultimate experts on this law, what it was intended to accomplish, how it was intended to be applied and whom it was intended to afford protection to.

 

[LinasK]

It doesn't, because following is not illegal.

Okay, we need an attorney other than Hornsby to explain this better than I can. Following in itself is not illegal, but by doing that it negates the standing your ground. George was not defending his home/castle, he was being the aggressor. TM was the one who was standing his ground when he was shot.

 

[jjenny]

An interesting article about voice recognition technology.

In this article, apparently it's common to get a suspect to say the same words as are in the sample, so that the suspect and sample can be compared word for word.

I'm really still surprised that no one in the media has brought up what appears to be a huge problem here - the "suspected shouter" isn't really saying many words, but rather making sounds.

I have a hard time thinking you could get a clear identification of either of the men just by comparing to usual speaking voice. It will be interesting, if it's ever done, to compare Trayvon's speaking voice to the screams and see if they can get a clear idea. I just don't see how.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/george-zimmerman-voice-recognition-120404.html

Because there so few words of someone screaming, it probably won't be admissible in court (assuming they follow the guidelines). Which didn't stop these experts from getting on TV and claiming they ruled Zimmerman out.

 

[JeannaT]

So that means there's basically a 50/50 chance that any given burglar would be black or white. IMO JMO MOO

No. Statistics are kind of my thing. ;D

If these numbers are accurate, it's like you have a bag of 8 jellybeans (representing the 8 crimes). You pull out 3 of them, and they're purple. You pull out one, and no one can determine the color or it's confusing somehow. What are the odds on the colors of the rest of the jellybeans?

Pretty overwhelming that they're going to be purple.

You have no cases of burglaries where it's clear anyone except an AA young man committed the crime, and 3 cases out of 8 where it's clear the suspects are AA men.

 

[jjenny]

Okay, we need an attorney other than Hornsby to explain this better than I can. Following in itself is not illegal, but by doing that it negates the standing your ground. George was not defending his home/castle, he was being the aggressor. TM was the one who was standing his ground when he was shot.

You don't need to defend your home/castle. That law says you can defend yourself anywhere you can legally be. Since Zimmerman can legally be in a gated community he can defend himself there all he wants based on this law.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Yes, thank God. One of the things that dispatcher did right was to ask George if he was following Trayvon.

And his statement to GZ, "Okay, we do NOT need you to do that!" was the ONLY emphatic and forcefull thing he said during the entire exchange. There was no doubt what he meant. It was not a "Wow, thanks, what a nice gift, you shouldn't have!" it was "Knock that crap off now."

 

[jjenny]

As they are the authors of the actual bill, I am assuming they claim is is being misapplied to this case because they know what they were trying to accomplish by introducing it and subsequently passing it - and this is NOT it.

I will take their word as the ultimate experts on this law, what it was intended to accomplish, how it was intended to be applied and whom it was intended to afford protection to.

Well if it is not applied as they intended it to apply, then they didn't write it clearly enough, did they? Maybe they had a vision in their heads of what it should be used for, but I really doubt it worked out that way.

 

[LinasK]

No. Statistics are kind of my thing. ;D

If these numbers are accurate, it's like you have a bag of 8 jellybeans (representing the 8 crimes). You pull out 3 of them, and they're purple. You pull out one, and no one can determine the color or it's confusing somehow. What are the odds on the colors of the rest of the jellybeans?

Pretty overwhelming that they're going to be purple.

You have no cases of burglaries where it's clear anyone except an AA young man committed the crime, and 3 cases out of 8 where it's clear the suspects are AA men.

Nope, that's profiling, what if it were a bag of M&M's rather than jelly beans? You are making assumptions. And FWIW, a kid at my daughter's science fair did research the proportions of colors of M&M's in a bag- and they do put in far less red & brown ones than blue & green ones!

 

[marlame]

Five of which were young black males so Trayvon fit that profile.

BBM...

The problem with profiling based upon the color of one's skin/gender is that it subjects innocent people to unwarranted suspicion and accusations. No matter what percentage of black males living in Sanford, FL can be considered criminal, there is an additional percentage who cannot be considered criminal. And it is a violation of the civil rights of all of these people to make an assumption that is not based on evidence, as opposed to statistical assumptions.

As always...Just My Opinion

 

[HiHater]

Because there so few words of someone screaming, it probably won't be admissible in court (assuming they follow the guidelines). Which didn't stop these experts from getting on TV and claiming they ruled Zimmerman out.

In the article that was linked, I didn't see any guidelines? Are you talking about the Frye Standard?

 

[songline]

Any evidence of him peddling his yet-to-be-determined influence? Any evidence out there that his friends in high places would be willing to cover up a supposed murder? Such ridiculous accusations imo.

Basically, not much has been new on this case. We must wait for a proper investigation which is underway now.
I personally come on here to lend my support for FAIR LEGAL OUTCOME.
Yes Trayvon’s parents deserve an answer.
<Mod Snip>

 

[LinasK]

Well if it is not applied as they intended it to apply, then they didn't write it clearly enough, did they? Maybe they had a vision in their heads of what it should be used for, but I really doubt it worked out that way.

And I can well believe they will at least be tweaking the law from now on, if it is not revoked entirely!!!