17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #23

[mfcmom]

Oh my. Alan Dershowitz was just on Chris Matthews with Michael Smerconovish (sp) and trashed the probable cause affadavit, trashed the SP AC and said it was unethical, political and will probably be tossed. JMO I think replay in two hours. JMO

 

[elementary]

Oh my. Alan Dershowitz was just on Chris Matthews with Michael Smerconovish (sp) and trashed the probable cause affadavit, trashed the SP AC and said it was unethical, political and will probably be tossed. JMO I think replay in two hours. JMO

He's rather predictable. And he is a defence lawyer after all.

 

[tlcya]

Absolutely common sense. If society does not share a common coinage there would be no effective way to communicate.

I am wondering why GZ did not mention his gun to the dispatcher, then, as in, "oh, I'm okay, I have a gun, so I'm not worried about following him".

Because the volunteer coordinator states she clearly told GZ and the other NW meeting attendees that they should NOT carry weapons when patrolling?

Because GZ was not really patrolling for NW but rather a private citizen on the way to Target and felt justified in multi tasking despite the patrolling and gun carrying breaking the rules?

Or my own opinion - Because GZ knew the dispatcher would immediately tell him, nay ORDER him, to disengage, to leave the area and let LE handle it, and under no circumstances confront this "suspect"

 

[mfcmom]

He's rather predictable. And he is a defence lawyer after all.

Isn't he a law professor?

 

[WillenFan21]

"The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for an officer"

That right there says it all from the affidavit. They told him straight up from the moment that call was placed "wait for an officer" what was EXACTLY what he should have done. He's not a cop he's the watchman. You make a call about something suspicious and you wait for the police to arrive and Zimmerman did not do that. They even told him a second time we don't need you to follow him but with that first statement makes the argument invalid because it doesn't matter what the dispatcher said the second time she told him straight up from the beginning do not do anything until the police get there.

 

[frenchvixen]

I disagree. It's not the same.

The way it was stated was not an order, it was a suggestion.

Dispatcher never said the words "don't do it" or "stop doing it".

He said we don't NEED you to do that.

Not an order.

Well, GZ is an adult and why should he have to specifically say, "We don't need you do to do that" for him to clearly understand him? He is not stupid and he claims to know how law enforcement works. "We do not need you to do that". What do you translate that to mean? What other purpose would he have to say that to him other than to mean, "Stop following him"?

 

[Adrienne37]

Thought it was kind of sloppy too for all the time they said they took on it.

The big one that glared out to me was the mis-statement on what the dispatcher said....made he think they took their info from some of the media coverage instead of actually reviewing the 911 calls.

Also surprised too that AC said yesterday they never interview GZ. I wonder now if that the reason GZ called AC's office Monday was because he had been told the charges were finalized and he knew they had not talked to him yet.

There is no reason for the district attorney to interview Zimmerman. Did you see the state's attorney interviewing Casey Anthony before they filed charges against her? What about Scott Peterson? Did the state's attorney interview him before they filed charges against him? Perhaps one of our fine lawyers on this board can chime in on this but I do not think she has to interview him for anything.


~jmo~

 

[Isabelle]

Yep, it is disappointing, AC also praised Wolfinger and the SPD. It gave me a awful feeling in my stomach when she said this. Unless the FBI comes up with charges on the shoddy investigation or has answers for it, I think what happened will be swept under the rug. :maddening:

I'm sure TM's parents can hear those words from both places non stop screaming in their heads. My trust is just not there.

 

[suspicious1]

BBM IMHO.. The dispatch person telling GZ " We do not need you to do that" is the same as instructing him NOT to follow TM.. For certain, the dispatcher was not telling GZ he wanted him to follow TM as some here have suggested.JMHO...

Exactly.

And IMO GZ heard it the same way we did...and replied "OK".. IMO he understtod that to mean they did not want him to follow Tray.

The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that"

Not "we don't need you to do that BUT you can if you want to."

<modsnip>Jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

Oh my. Alan Dershowitz was just on Chris Matthews with Michael Smerconovish (sp) and trashed the probable cause affadavit, trashed the SP AC and said it was unethical, political and will probably be tossed. JMO I think replay in two hours. JMO

Wow, and yesterday he was all for Angela Corey and what she should charge Zimmerman with. I have to wonder sometimes if these people actually think before they speak.



~jmo~

 

[atthelake]

Here is a quick and VERY amateur video I just made regarding the PF9, as there were some questions earlier about sounds in the 911 call. I don't know what the sounds were, but wanted to show what sound this would make if you were "preparing to use/carry etc.."

I'm not a gun expert, just someone who carries.

PF9 - YouTube

Anadarko

:takeabow: Great post! A blond with a gun, you go gal!

 

[LambChop]

lease: ITA!.....and the comment of "we don't need you to do that" is similar to the standardized comment one MAY/might receive from a 911 dispatcher of "stay on the line" OR "start chest compressions by doing......" IMVHO, one calls 911 for HELP and ASSISTANCE, one would anticipate/expect/believe that the CALLER will follow the given ADVICE/HELP as offered. :moo:

Very similiar to "this is what you need to do". jmo

 

[mercuriod]

BBM do you have reason to believe that investigators simply review tapes and do not interview the actual participants? Aside from GZ who Spec Pros Corey says was not interviewed I am acting under the belief that witnesses were actually spoken to.

I think GZ would have been spoken to had he not flaked out and gone incommunicado even to his attorneys. From their presser yesterday they spoke of trying to set up the meeting or interview with Ms. Corey and GZ was MIA

Until I hear differently, I am going to believe that investigators actually investigated and spoke to people/witnesses

Ms. Corey in the presser yesterday very clearly said that her investigators RE-INTERVIEWED the witnesses!

 

[atthelake]

Sometimes Florida time zones are confused because North West Florida is in the central time zone.

That's why they call that part of Florida lower Alabama :floorlaugh:

 

[Desdemona]

I'm so puzzled about the charging document that justifies the 2nd degree murder charge with the statement that TM was running home with GZ following him (disregarding the instruction "to stop.")

On the call audio, GZ says of the suspicious person: "He's running" at 2:08 into the video, apparently after TM walked toward GZ's position. So TM starts his frightened dash for home at that point.

After GZ is told "We don't need you to do that," and answers, "Okay," GZ does not sound as if he is running in hot murderous pursuit. He calmly continues the call, responding verbally to the call-taker's requests for information (name, address, present location, location where he'll be meeting LE, giving directions, etc.). Around 2:38, (30 seconds after TM started "running home,") GZ is still on the call, providing address/directions, etc. and calmly adds, "He ran." Past tense.

This is what puzzles me: How far was it from GZ's truck to TM's door? How long would it have taken a swiftly running TM to make it home?

Two whole minutes elapse between "He's running" and the end of the call. A good runner can cover a football field in less than 30 seconds. How could GZ have possibly caught up to a young athlete "trying to run home?" I can't make this work time-wise, even assuming GZ were out of his truck trying to regain sight of TM on foot while finishing up the call with LE.

Here is a youtube video of a guy running end zone to end zone at Cowboys stadium in about 20 seconds:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NykJW3oHS0Y"]Me running from End Zone to End Zone at Cowboys Stadium in Dallas, Texas - YouTube[/ame]

I cannot reconstruct any reasonable scenario in which TM, on his way home via the clubhouse area, began running in fear after passing GZ's location (2:08 on the audio recording) but only managed to cover such a short distance before tangling with GZ at least two minutes later. There must be something I'm missing here.

:waitasec:
JMO

 

[Etilema]

I'm so puzzled about the charging document that justifies the 2nd degree murder charge with the statement that TM was running home with GZ following him (disregarding the instruction "to stop.")

On the call audio, GZ says of the suspicious person: "He's running" at 2:08 into the video, apparently after TM walked toward GZ's position. So TM starts his frightened dash for home at that point.

After GZ is told "We don't need you to do that," and answers, "Okay," GZ does not sound as if he is running in hot murderous pursuit. He calmly continues the call, responding verbally to the call-taker's requests for information (name, address, present location, location where he'll be meeting LE, giving directions, etc.). Around 2:38, (30 seconds after TM started "running home,") GZ is still on the call, providing address/directions, etc. and calmly adds, "He ran." Past tense.

This is what puzzles me: How far was it from GZ's truck to TM's door? How long would it have taken a swiftly running TM to make it home?

A good runner can cover a football field in less than 30 seconds. Two whole minutes elapse between "He's running" and the end of the call. How could GZ have possibly caught up to a young athlete "trying to run home?" I can't make this work time-wise, even assuming GZ were out of his truck trying to regain sight of TM on foot while finishing up the call with LE.

Here is a youtube video of a guy running end zone to end zone at Cowboys stadium in about 20 seconds:
Me running from End Zone to End Zone at Cowboys Stadium in Dallas, Texas - YouTube

I cannot reconstruct any reasonable scenario in which TM, on his way home via the clubhouse area, began running in fear after passing GZ's location (2:08 on the audio recording) but only managed to cover such a short distance before tangling with GZ at least two minutes later. There must be something I'm missing here.

:waitasec:
JMO

We have heard it said that he told his girlfriend he was not going to run (against her advice). So either (1) he ran in spite of what he told her, (2) GZ lied and did not see Trayvon run (perhaps said it to LE in order to bolster his assertion that Trayvon was up to no good), (3) Trayvon started running and then slowed down after he was some distance along, only saying afterwards that he wasn't going to run, or (4) he was simply walking quickly and GZ interpreted it as running.

Even if he actually ran, though, he may not have done it full-speed. After all, he was apparently talking to his girlfriend at the time, which is hard to do when running as fast as one can.

JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm so puzzled about the charging document that justifies the 2nd degree murder charge with the statement that TM was running home with GZ following him (disregarding the instruction "to stop.")

On the call audio, GZ says of the suspicious person: "He's running" at 2:08 into the video, apparently after TM walked toward GZ's position. So TM starts his frightened dash for home at that point.

After GZ is told "We don't need you to do that," and answers, "Okay," GZ does not sound as if he is running in hot murderous pursuit. He calmly continues the call, responding verbally to the call-taker's requests for information (name, address, present location, location where he'll be meeting LE, giving directions, etc.). Around 2:38, (30 seconds after TM started "running home,") GZ is still on the call, providing address/directions, etc. and calmly adds, "He ran." Past tense.

This is what puzzles me: How far was it from GZ's truck to TM's door? How long would it have taken a swiftly running TM to make it home?

Two whole minutes elapse between "He's running" and the end of the call. A good runner can cover a football field in less than 30 seconds. How could GZ have possibly caught up to a young athlete "trying to run home?" I can't make this work time-wise, even assuming GZ were out of his truck trying to regain sight of TM on foot while finishing up the call with LE.

Here is a youtube video of a guy running end zone to end zone at Cowboys stadium in about 20 seconds:
Me running from End Zone to End Zone at Cowboys Stadium in Dallas, Texas - YouTube

I cannot reconstruct any reasonable scenario in which TM, on his way home via the clubhouse area, began running in fear after passing GZ's location (2:08 on the audio recording) but only managed to cover such a short distance before tangling with GZ at least two minutes later. There must be something I'm missing here.

:waitasec:
JMO

The words "running" and "following" come from George Zimmerman's own admissions. You could Zimmerman moving while talking to LE. He was following Trayvon.

Also, it has been discussed that Trayvon may have been disoriented. He did not live there and we have no idea how many times he has been there to visit. All the houses look the same... I think he became disoriented and may have actually started walking back towards the way he came because he was confused by where he was at... and that is how GZ caught up with him. OR GZ didn't go the way he said he was going and actually used the other sidewalk to cut Trayvon off.

MOO

ETA: I didn't mean to say "other sidewalk" but I believe he may have cut through the buildings to catch Trayvon off guard?

 

[m00c0w]

So again it is Trayvon's fault that George murdered (allegedly) him because he didn't outrun George's bullet! Wow just wow :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

That's not quite what was said. If the timelines don't fit, the timelines don't fit. You would be attempting to fit a square peg into a round hole. JMO

 

[Adrienne37]

We have heard it said that he told his girlfriend he was not going to run (against her advice). So either (1) he ran in spite of what he told her, (2) GZ lied and did not see Trayvon run (perhaps said it to LE in order to bolster his assertion that Trayvon was up to no good), (3) Trayvon started running and then slowed down after he was some distance along, only saying afterwards that he wasn't going to run, or (4) he was simply walking quickly and GZ interpreted it as running.

Even if he actually ran, though, he may not have done it full-speed. After all, he was apparently talking to his girlfriend at the time, which is hard to do when running as fast as one can.

JMO

Speaking of running, I'd really like to know how fast Zimmerman was running as he was hunting Trayvon down. From the 911 call, it sounds like he was going pretty good because of the wind hitting the phone.


~jmo~

 

[Desdemona]

Full charging document if it hasn't been posted.



http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2012-04/69353440.pdf

Wow. It doesn't even mention that GZ is the neighborhood watch captain.