17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #34

[Dr.Fessel]

The City of Sanford has deleted everything about Trayvon now.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

 

[Salem]

A quick note to let everyone know we are locking the thread tonight. I'm going to close it up 11:30ish p.m. PST.

I have some things to do and I won't close it until I'm ready to sign off for the night, but when 11:30 gets here, please be forewarned, the thread could close at any second. LOL!

Salem

 

[vlpate]

You know, the more I listen to this 911 call made by GZ, the more convinced I am that it is indeed the sound of a gun being cocked.

Just before he says his last name is Zimmerman, you can hear that cocking noise. (2:13)
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/vide...e-Zimmerman-911-call-reporting-Trayvon-Martin

Our member, Anadarko posted this video a while back, showing us the sounds of the exact same gun. The noises are extremely similar to me.
PF9 - YouTube

Please compare the sounds. It's remarkable.

His was a double action only trigger, IIRC. So there would have been no reason for him to "*advertiser censored*" it. IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

His was a double action only trigger, IIRC. So there would have been no reason for him to "*advertiser censored*" it. IMO

To get a bullet in the chamber you have to *advertiser censored* it.

 

[octobermoon]

I think many of those that donated probably feel they same way I do: I was not there, I don't know what happened, I'm going to wait until the evidence is presented to make an informed decision. In having that view, I have become very frustrated with the witch hunt that has been occurring. I think, possibly, many that donated, did so not because they are sure it was a syg situation, or that they think GZ is innocent, but because they feel it could be a way to support in getting him a fair trial. Just because people say that GZ didn't give TM a fair chance doesn't mean we should abandon our principles and not give GZ his day in court.
To me, a major decider in my decision is who physically attacked first. To others it might be GZ following. To others it might be GZ following with a gun. I'll be interested in seeing the evidence and hearing the arguments. Something else might pop up that would help shape my decision. I don't know what happened, I'm unsure of intent, I'm unsure the dispatchers authority, I'm unsure if GZ was really returning to his truck, but I will wait until i can make a more informed decision. Moo

Just jumping off your wonderful post...

GZ should get his day in court. With that I agree. I do wonder if he was overcharged time will tell.

What bothers me is his supporters making him out to be the poster boy for concealed carry and self defense. He is IMO an irresponsible gun owner with a need to catch the bad guy. His frequent calls to LE show a ????, a need, an obsession to insert his own idea of law and order on others. Who here has called 46 times to 911 or the non emergency #? That along with his anger management classes, domestic issues (him and his gal) make me wonder why people support him. All I can figure is it is all politics.


ETA by supporters I mean those all over the radio, the web...... NOT here!!!

 

[Ambrosia]

The gun cocking sound followed by swearing, then followed by the (solid taps) could be palm hits on the bottom of the magazine. Whan he cocked the gun as I mentioned before - his thumb position may have inadvertently released the magazine. Hence the swear and solid tapping sounds that came next. Then there is another thing that could happened, but this I doubt unless he was a bumbling idiot. He could have cocked the pistol not realizing that there was already one in the chamber. This bullet would have been ejected but at what force I'm not sure. It might have landed in the grass. With it being dark and if he didn't find it that night it could very well still be there. If found with a search using a metal detector. This would give solid evidence as to where he was at that time he was talking to the operator. The pistol magazine holds seven. However, with one in the chamber the magazine could be removed to add an additional round that would give it eight. Even with the slightest chance I pray all this stuff will be investigated from the tape. I found some info last night that some owners who have reported issues with GZ's gun, the Kel-tec PF-9. Some owners have had problems with the magazine spring and catch which may cause the magazine to become unseated. If thr magazine could fall out and in a struggle TM may have been able to use it as a weapon to hit GZ in the head with before he was shot. This should be checked for TM's fingerprints as well.

 

[vlpate]

To get a bullet in the chamber you have to *advertiser censored* it.

Pulling the trigger "*advertiser censored*" the gun....and thus, "double action".

 

[RANCH]

His was a double action only trigger, IIRC. So there would have been no reason for him to "*advertiser censored*" it. IMO

Your right. A couple of weeks ago someone brought up the same thing about "clicks" heard on the 911 tape.

It makes more sense that the "clicks" were from the 911 dispatchers keyboard than a pistol's slide being racked multiple times. JMO.

 

[jaded cat]

BBM

I wouldn't count on that, though -- that he doesn't think he did anything wrong. My hunch, based on multiple experiences with people whose choices have led to tragic consequences, is that George would give anything to go back to that night and make some different choices. Self defense or not, because of some decisions he made that night a young man is now gone forever, he himself will go down in history as a monster, and emotions are seething everywhere. There are no do-overs. The consequences are forever, regardless of what happens with the criminal case. Yeah, I'll bet George now wishes he could have done some things very differently that night. IMO

I couldn't find anything specific to bold because your whole post is most excellent! I believe this is some horrible tragedy and wasn't what GZ thought would happen when he stepped out of his truck. So much meaning in the words "If only..."

 

[katydid23]

The gun cocking sound followed by swearing, then followed by the (solid taps) could be palm hits on the bottom of the magazine. Whan he cocked the gun as I mentioned before - his thumb position may have inadvertently released the magazine. Hence the swear and solid tapping sounds that came next. Then there is another thing that could happened, but this I doubt unless he was a bumbling idiot. He could have cocked the pistol not realizing that there was already one in the chamber. This bullet would have been ejected but at what force I'm not sure. It might have landed in the grass. With it being dark and if he didn't find it that night it could very well still be there. If found with a search using a metal detector. This would give solid evidence as to where he was at that time he was talking to the operator. The pistol magazine holds seven. However, with one in the chamber the magazine could be removed to add an additional round that would give it eight. Even with the slightest chance I pray all this stuff will be investigated from the tape. I found some info last night that some owners who have reported issues with GZ's gun, the Kel-tec PF-9. Some owners have had problems with the magazine spring and catch which may cause the magazine to become unseated. If thr magazine could fall out and in a struggle TM may have been able to use it as a weapon to hit GZ in the head with before he was shot. This should be checked for TM's fingerprints as well.

Why would he *advertiser censored* his gun at that point?

 

[vlpate]

<Snipped for brevity>
This is followed by a rather strange sound that I can only describe as like that of a screech from a cockatoo. ???

Since it was raining, could the "screech" sound be windshield wipers?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Pulling the trigger "*advertiser censored*" the gun....and thus, "double action".

You have to *advertiser censored* it to get the first bullet into the chamber. After that shooting a bullet *advertiser censored* the gun automatically.

 

[RANCH]

You have to *advertiser censored* it to get the first bullet into the chamber. After that shooting a bullet *advertiser censored* the gun automatically.

I think that were talking about a sound heard on the 911 tape. If you have a DAO pistol you should not have to *advertiser censored* it. Therefore no sound. It's designed to have a round in the chamber at all times and only fires when you pull the trigger. Think of it being like a double action revolver.

 

[Desdemona]

In GZ's original call, he says the SP ran. GZ seems to have gotten out of his vehicle to at least try to regain visual contact with the person who apparently disappeared from his view.

Dispatch asks what direction the SP ran. GZ says "toward the other entrance." When asked, he specifies "the back entrance."

Huff puff. Are you following him? Yeah. Okay, we don't need you to do that. Okay. Huff puff.

Where exactly was GZ at that point? Do we know for sure? Would the truth surprise us? Toward the back entrance. This has me very intrigued, despite all the good work and wonderful speculative diagrams and descriptions we've seen, which may or may not be spot on. Despite the prevailing assumptions. I'm not sure.

Could it be that once more information is revealed, a new set of calculations, analysis, and maps will be needed?

JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I think that were talking about a sound heard on the 911 tape. If you have a DAO pistol you should not have to *advertiser censored* it. Therefore no sound. It's designed to have a round in the chamber at all times and only fires when you pull the trigger. Think of it being like a double action revolver.

So if you have an empty gun and you put the magazine with bullets into it you don't have to slide back the slide to pickup a bullet and put it into the chamber?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

In this video she talks about chambering a round. You have to chamber the first round. You do that by cocking the gun.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7R8YBayEzs&feature=player_embedded"]PF9 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I think that were talking about a sound heard on the 911 tape. If you have a DAO pistol you should not have to *advertiser censored* it. Therefore no sound. It's designed to have a round in the chamber at all times and only fires when you pull the trigger. Think of it being like a double action revolver.

Ok are you saying you don't have to chamber that first round and simply pulling the trigger will chamber it? If so I did not know you could do that.

 

[RANCH]

So if you have an empty gun and you put the magazine with bullets into it you don't have to slide back the slide to pickup a bullet and put it into the chamber?

Correct. But you do that before you put the pistol in your holster and you don't have to do it multiple times.

ETA: Of course you have to chamber a round first.

 

[vlpate]

So if you have an empty gun and you put the magazine with bullets into it you don't have to slide back the slide to pickup a bullet and put it into the chamber?

Quick google search provides the following:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/28/george-zimmermans-gun-a-popular-choice-for-concealed-carry/

"The weapon, manufactured by Cocoa, Fla.-based Kel-Tec CNC, is a well-known device and not uncommon for police and private ownership, according to Tom Gresham, host of Gun Talk, a Sirius XM radio show. &#8220;The particular model is a popular one for concealed carry,&#8221; he says. &#8220;It&#8217;s a simple firearm, there is nothing unusual about it. This would be a gun any police officer would carry for personal protection.&#8221; A concealed carry permit allows a person to carry a gun or other weapon in a covered manner, either on his person or elsewhere, like in his glove compartment."

ETA: Pasted wrong text:

"It weighs about 12 oz. unloaded, has a five-pound trigger pull and has an automatic hammer block safety, which prevents it from firing when dropped. It is also &#8220;double-action only,&#8221; which means the trigger must be pulled fully in order to fire. In his ownership of the weapon, Zimmerman is not unlike millions of other licensed gun owners."

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Operation

Typically, the first round is manually loaded into the chamber by pulling back and releasing ("racking") the slide mechanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_pistol