Trial Thread - 9 May 2012 Judge to give Jury Instructions

[maxfactor]

Oh, I imagine they'll do the same with Rafferty, then? I wonder what he'll say?

He'll probably be speechless!! IMO he thinks he's getting off.

 

[~n/t~]

Agree BorgQueen and so do others, it seems. This below was tweeted earlier:

@AM980_Court When will the judge caution #Rafferty about his eye rolling, muttering & gestures?

Too late now. The Judge should have done it yesterday with his first eye rolling but that's ok. I hope the jury sees his obnoxious disregard for the court, Tori's family and last but not least, Tori, the victim.

.

 

[myzzy]

Thank you everyone for your insights, thoughts and opinions for the last several years. Even if we don't always agree, Each one of you have kept Tori in your hearts and that is worth a 1000 words. Tori is what matters! We want Tori's little face to change us for the better and her memory to effect us forever.

It has been a emotional train ride, that is thankfully coming to a end. Both the crown and defence did their jobs and a good job presenting

BBM

Those who believe he isn't guilty are also those who believe there is no evidence which makes me want to laugh and scream at the same time.

Without knowing every bit of information the jury has ( I do not believe we have heard all the evidence via tweets) and solely going on the tweets we have heard, I do believe there is reasonable doubt, I do not think there was enough evidence to directly link MR to certain things. I do without a doubt though believe he should be accountable for actions that have been proven

I want justice for Tori just as much as anyone else period. I believe in our justice system and feel that MR got his fair trial and his peers will see as a whole if MR is guilty or not and I will 100% support and respect their decisions and be comfortable in believing they came up with the right verdict even if it disagrees with my opinion based on what i heard via the tweets

 

[parcheesy]

I'd be hiding as well.

His family doesn't concern me anyway. My concern lies with Tori's family.

My concern also lies with Tori's family!! I think I am just getting a little anxious about the verdict. I know how I feel, I really believe MTR is guilty, but I know some people feel he is innocent. I was just trying to get a sense of whether or not his own family supports him, besides his Mother that is. I think I was hoping to hear that they don't support him. If his own brothers didn't think he was innocent, how could a jury?! I will try to relax and hope justice will be served. Sweet Victoria and her family have never left my thoughts since I first heard she was missing :-(.

 

[Heliotrope]

Too late now. The Judge should have done it yesterday with his first eye rolling but that's ok. I hope the jury sees his obnoxious disregard for the court, Tori's family and last but not least, Tori, the victim.

.

I'm torn on it . For the family's sake, I'd have liked the judge to threaten to slap a Hannibal Lecter mask on him if he couldn't put on his big-boy pants and control his emotions.

On the other hand, good for the jury to see that.

Interesting to contrast him with the Colonel; the Colonel maintained fairly strict control over himself during testimony as I recall. The Colonel was also someone who had achieved material success; he was able to compartmentalize, and perhaps that's how we was able to lead a dual life for so long. This one, not so much.

 

[OhSoCurious]

Nobody has to agree with the majority, but the people who believe he is guilty also don't have to agree with the ones who believe he is not. She was only stating her opinion, which she has a right to do, as well.

The weight of the evidence points to this crime fulfilling his sexual fantasy. JMO

links please .... I can't find the fantasy evidence links MOO

 

[OhSoCurious]

Thank you everyone for your insights, thoughts and opinions for the last several years. Even if we don't always agree, Each one of you have kept Tori in your hearts and that is worth a 1000 words. Tori is what matters! We want Tori's little face to change us for the better and her memory to effect us forever.

It has been a emotional train ride, that is thankfully coming to a end. Both the crown and defence did their jobs and a good job presenting




Without knowing every bit of information the jury has ( I do not believe we have heard all the evidence via tweets) and solely going on the tweets we have heard, I do believe there is reasonable doubt, I do not think there was enough evidence to directly link MR to certain things. I do without a doubt though believe he should be accountable for actions that have been proven

I want justice for Tori just as much as anyone else period. I believe in our justice system and feel that MR got his fair trial and his peers will see as a whole if MR is guilty or not and I will 100% support and respect their decisions and be comfortable in believing they came up with the right verdict even if it disagrees with my opinion based on what i heard via the tweets

I would venture to say this is a very safe statement. JMO

(I do not believe we have heard all the evidence via tweets)

 

[littlebirdie]

Agree BorgQueen and so do others, it seems. This below was tweeted earlier:

@AM980_Court When will the judge caution #Rafferty about his eye rolling, muttering & gestures?

Using this popular quote -- IMO it seems to me that MR is "digging his own grave" with these antics. Possibly, he thinks he is some kind of celebrity and is thinking about all of the stories that may be written about him and likes to draw attention to himself. This is all JMO. I will be dreaming tonight about the sound of a cell door slamming shut for 25+ years and then he can do all of the eye rolling he wants.

 

[nobodyzgirl]

I know me too, well mostly lol. I really don't know what they would do, maybe depends if the judge wants to get up out of bed too? jk. Maybe Justice Heeney will address that tomorrow too.
Is anyone at the courthouse with them if they deliberate into the night? I'm sure there has to be someone to let the pizza delivery guy in?

They deliberate until a certain time, and if they haven't reached a verdict, they retire for the night and then start again the next day, and it will continue like that until they reach a verdict. It is very unlikely that they will reach a verdict at 2:00a.m.

 

[Flowercb]

AM980_Court Another large eye roll for Rafferty when Gowdey brings up him manipulating women.

Look at what he reacts too...IMO!..****

He rolls his eyes at the truth!!!MOO!

 

[Kittymama]

links please .... I can't find the fantasy evidence links MOO

I did insert my "JMO." But since you asked, the evidence that points to this being a sexual fantasy of MR's:

-no other theory with any proof (i.e. "drug debt"--no proof; "innocent dupe"--no proof)
-Tori's blood found in MR's car, mixed with MR's blood, on the gym bag. It was on the bottom of the gym bag, IIRC. If it was splatter from TLM wielding the hammer, how did it get on the bottom???
-Tori's blood found in the same spot as a sperm faction--now I know there are those who say maybe they got there at different times, but how likely is that, really? I don't think it's very likely. Especially considering it was such a tiny spot, and in such an out-of-the-way place in the car.
-MR's crazy sex drive--I mean, wow. Reminds me of Warren Jeffs.
-MR's lies to police
-MR covering up the murder, and, IMO, other things (such as the sexual assault)
-that MR was there at all--why WAS he there, if not to do what he did?
-the statistical likelihood of these kinds of crimes being sexual offences
-him driving by the school three times that day

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of on the fly. Anyone, feel free to add to the list.

JMO

 

[Tahorn]

Thank you everyone for your insights, thoughts and opinions for the last several years. Even if we don't always agree, Each one of you have kept Tori in your hearts and that is worth a 1000 words. Tori is what matters! We want Tori's little face to change us for the better and her memory to effect us forever.

It has been a emotional train ride, that is thankfully coming to a end. Both the crown and defence did their jobs and a good job presenting




Without knowing every bit of information the jury has ( I do not believe we have heard all the evidence via tweets) and solely going on the tweets we have heard, I do believe there is reasonable doubt, I do not think there was enough evidence to directly link MR to certain things. I do without a doubt though believe he should be accountable for actions that have been proven

I want justice for Tori just as much as anyone else period. I believe in our justice system and feel that MR got his fair trial and his peers will see as a whole if MR is guilty or not and I will 100% support and respect their decisions and be comfortable in believing they came up with the right verdict even if it disagrees with my opinion based on what i heard via the tweets

For VS I hope they find MR guilty just to give them the peace they are looking for.

However, I too believe that the information provided on this site, tweets and news articles I hate to say it but if I were on the jury I would be hard pressed to find him guilty. Now I have not seen the photos, or heard TLM in whole, nor have I seen MR body language or expressions ... all may weigh heavily on the juries.

 

[Heliotrope]

My concern also lies with Tori's family!! I think I am just getting a little anxious about the verdict. I know how I feel, I really believe MTR is guilty, but I know some people feel he is innocent. I was just trying to get a sense of whether or not his own family supports him, besides his Mother that is. I think I was hoping to hear that they don't support him. If his own brothers didn't think he was innocent, how could a jury?! I will try to relax and hope justice will be served. Sweet Victoria and her family have never left my thoughts since I first heard she was missing :-(.

I'm sure the reason this hits many of us so hard is imagining what the family feels like. Although, if you all are anything like me, you've never been able to let your mind go all the way, and really think "what if this was my child?" Our mind protects us from that, and throws up a barrier before we can go too far down that road.

I took a public affairs course once, meant for people who weren't media but might be expected to speak to the media on occasion. One of the presenters was an editor from CBC Newsworld - he spoke on the limits of what can and can't be shown, and how he as an editor decided what was too much.

He showed a series of clips and asked, would you have shown it? One was a of a politician caught in a scandal who shot himself in the head during a news conference. One was a journalist in a war zone laying face down with his hands up at a checkpoint - they shot him in the back of the head.

But the worst clip by far, and I wasn't even a mother at that point, was a clip of a woman who had just learned the fate of the flight her child was on. Her child was on Pan Am 103, which was brought down by a terrorist bomb over Locherbie, Scotland, in 1988 IIRC.

She fell to the floor, keening, wailing. It didn't even sound human, it was like an animal sound. It haunts me to this day, more than the video clips of people being shot. I have no doubt that her family are in that same place, and will be until the day they die. The sun is never really going to rise for them again.

 

[brighidin]

Thank you everyone for your insights, thoughts and opinions for the last several years. Even if we don't always agree, Each one of you have kept Tori in your hearts and that is worth a 1000 words. Tori is what matters! We want Tori's little face to change us for the better and her memory to effect us forever.

It has been a emotional train ride, that is thankfully coming to a end. Both the crown and defence did their jobs and a good job presenting




Without knowing every bit of information the jury has ( I do not believe we have heard all the evidence via tweets) and solely going on the tweets we have heard, I do believe there is reasonable doubt, I do not think there was enough evidence to directly link MR to certain things. I do without a doubt though believe he should be accountable for actions that have been proven

Respectfully snipped by me.
I see things differently, but I appreciate how you phrased and substantiated your POV. May I ask you a question? Okay, a few.
Do you not think that there is enough evidence to show that he participated in the kidnapping? Or, do you not think Tori was kidnapped?

I only ask because, in Canadian law, if a murder is committed during a kidnapping, it is first degree murder, which, as you know, is what he was charged with.

Thanks!

 

[Kamille]

I did insert my "JMO." But since you asked, the evidence that points to this being a sexual fantasy of MR's:

-no other theory with any proof (i.e. "drug debt"--no proof; "innocent dupe"--no proof)
-Tori's blood found in MR's car, mixed with MR's blood, on the gym bag. It was on the bottom of the gym bag, IIRC. If it was splatter from TLM wielding the hammer, how did it get on the bottom???
-Tori's blood found in the same spot as a sperm faction--now I know there are those who say maybe they got there at different times, but how likely is that, really? I don't think it's very likely. Especially considering it was such a tiny spot, and in such an out-of-the-way place in the car.
-MR's crazy sex drive--I mean, wow. Reminds me of Warren Jeffs.
-MR's lies to police
-MR covering up the murder, and, IMO, other things (such as the sexual assault)
-that MR was there at all--why WAS he there, if not to do what he did?
-the statistical likelihood of these kinds of crimes being sexual offences
-him driving by the school three times that day

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of on the fly. Anyone, feel free to add to the list.

JMO

Just wanted to point out that the blood on the gym bag had both of their DNA. I believe the crown pointed out that the DNA could have come from blood or semen. There is no way to tell how his and Tori's DNA was mixed on that bag. Obviously one person's DNA is the blood but the other's may not necessarily be.

MOO

 

[Bravo]

I'm feeling especially haunted by this case. More than any other. Ever. Sigh....

 

[Kittymama]

Just wanted to point out that the blood on the gym bag had both of their DNA. I believe the crown pointed out that the DNA could have come from blood or semen. There is no way to tell how his and Tori's DNA was mixed on that bag. Obviously one person's DNA is the blood but the other's may not necessarily be.

MOO

Oh, really? I thought it was blood/blood on the gym bag, and blood/sperm faction on the door frame. I might be confused about that, though.

 

[snoofer]

I did insert my "JMO." But since you asked, the evidence that points to this being a sexual fantasy of MR's:

-no other theory with any proof (i.e. "drug debt"--no proof; "innocent dupe"--no proof)
-Tori's blood found in MR's car, mixed with MR's blood, on the gym bag. It was on the bottom of the gym bag, IIRC. If it was splatter from TLM wielding the hammer, how did it get on the bottom???
-Tori's blood found in the same spot as a sperm faction--now I know there are those who say maybe they got there at different times, but how likely is that, really? I don't think it's very likely. Especially considering it was such a tiny spot, and in such an out-of-the-way place in the car.
-MR's crazy sex drive--I mean, wow. Reminds me of Warren Jeffs.
-MR's lies to police
-MR covering up the murder, and, IMO, other things (such as the sexual assault)
-that MR was there at all--why WAS he there, if not to do what he did?
-the statistical likelihood of these kinds of crimes being sexual offences
-him driving by the school three times that day

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of on the fly. Anyone, feel free to add to the list.

JMO

- the fact that he fits the profile of a child sex killer to the letter
- the fact that he took an 8 year old blonde haired blue eyed girl to a rural field 1.5 hours from her home
- the fact that she was found naked from waste down
- THEN add in what TLM said about, masturbation, you know I am going to have sex with her.
- the fact that his own defense could not offer one bit of evidence to clear him such as the hammer or other things tossed away, or the car seat that could proove him innocent if he didn't do anything. It may not be defense responsibility to proove his innocence but I SURE WOULD DO IT if it would clear me.
-common sense (why DOES a 28 year old man have to explain why he had an 8 year old girl in his car, and took her to a rural field, who then ends up dead with no pants on) it is common sense to me why that is in light of the fact that the defendant can't offer up anything for a defense.

IMO it is a no brainer. MOO
MOO

 

[Flowercb]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says Rafferty was the mastermind all the way in the kidnap and murder of Tori details each part of trip

Gowdey thanks jurors for patience. Asks them to recall Tara McDonald panicking.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey wraps up He returns to Tara MacDonald's panic on day of abduction

Evidence establishes what happened to Tori, and that Rafferty did it.

Amen. MOO!

 

[Kittymama]

I'm feeling especially haunted by this case. More than any other. Ever. Sigh....

Me too. I had to step away from it last year after I learned how Tori was killed. Too many nightmares.