Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

[Dodo]

JUst postulating that EBC would know her children well. She raised them to focus on her needs and GBC was always the one who might let "the side" down. This time he has well and truly crossed the line - he has compromised her relationship with her husband, the relationship with her "perfect" daughter and now she is reeling from the fact that the grandchildren she had a close and most special relationship with are no longer at her disposal. This is not about GBC this is about her. By offering his unwavering support to Gerard, NBC has also disappointed her but she might forgive him, if he comes to his senses and realises that GBC has played them like pawns in his own selfish game. JMO

Think Perhaps you might have hit the nail on the head! Definitely resonates on many levels. This whole saga must be like one long nightmare for the whole family! Bet GBC didn't think his little plan would lead to such huge repercussions, with so much public condemnation for the way he and his family have behaved! Hopefully this will dissuade others from such a heinous path -seeing how many innocent people have been affected and the public humiliation that is wrought on perpetrator's families.

 

[BJsleuth]

Think Perhaps you might have hit the nail on the head! Definitely resonates on many levels. This whole saga must be like one long nightmare for the whole family! Bet GBC didn't think his little plan would lead to such huge repercussions, with so much public condemnation for the way he and his family have behaved! Hopefully this will dissuade others from such a heinous path -seeing how many innocent people have been affected and the public humiliation that is wrought on perpetrator's families.

I'd like to hope that too but there will always be those who think they're too smart to get caught and I think there's only one person they're considering when they do carry out something like this and that's themselves.

 

[Curiousasacat]

There are too many "issues" to find a simple solution - one size fits all. While not a victim of domestic abuse myself, i do find some of my husband's conversations are conducted in a disrespectful manner and that his own inadequacies colour his tone. I see how HIS father speaks to his wife and realise that it is self-perpetuating through generations. It takes a strong woman to express her feelings about being spoken down to and accepting behaviour that is less than respectful.

This then I believe is the key to reducing domestic abuse in the future - the generations to come, our children, need to be taught the meaning of respect and acceptable behaviour. This I feel lands significantly at the feet of the mothers. I hope that my son's future behaviour is respectful, helpful and polite, and that my daughter is able to be friends with men who are nothing less than respectful of woman. A hard ask, but just like manners, grammar, habits etc, it is a never-ending task that becomes automatic.

I was listening to an interview on today's ABC Radio Cairns (for the life of me can find it on the website!!) about what it means to be a man. In past generations knowledge was handed down, but in this generation we are lacking "mentors" and this has lead to a breakdown in acceptable behaviours and control of risk-taking behaviours in teen boys. They look to each other to validate there behaviour. Don't know where this is going........ anyone???...

thanks for the welcome - thought I had it bad as a lurker but now I am participating...oh dear...... anyone for baked beans on toast for dinner?!:blushing:

Hi Maxwell...Great that you have joined in,you are a great poster so far.
I am in the same situation as you.
Quote-"i do find some of my husband's conversations are conducted in a disrespectful manner and that his own inadequacies colour his tone. I see how HIS father speaks to his wife and realise that it is self-perpetuating through generations. It takes a strong woman to express her feelings about being spoken down to and accepting behaviour that is less than respectful."

I am appalled to see my FIL and the way he talks to his wife and to my OH.
I had not heard of gaslighting but it sounds quite familiar to me. I have been told all along that it takes a "strong woman" to be a part of this family but I don't stand for it, being an Aussie I have been bought up to watch my mates and speak up if I am unhappy about something.It doesn't really work that way in this family, I don't take their crap anymore but I do point out that the way this family operates is not the way MY little family will. I am responsible for bringing up a little man and everyday I teach him about manners and to treat women accordingly. You should see people's reaction when a 4 year old boy opens the doors for ladies and says"ladies first" I am babbling on but I just wanted to say I know what you mean.
Yes, it's not a simple solution but I am going to take some time to think about what we can do as a group to help this cause.

Grannie, if I were still in Brisbane I would proudly take on that conference,I hope someone can represent us in some way. It's a great idea.

 

[Curiousasacat]

I remember seeing that movie at my grandma's house (she was asleep) when I was about 11 or 12 with my slightly younger sister
We were petrified and mesmerized by the whole thing.

Think I am going to have to find a copy,I want to watch it now.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Thanks Fuskier
I have been thinking about this for the last few minutes and am a bit stumped how to keep this going. I think many of us here have gone through the mill so to speak and hopefully have learned some lessons along the way, or at least like Makara said learned to love and respect ourselves before all else.

Having said that we are still to some degree our own worse enemies, we spent time on here and say it is to the detriment of the washing, ironing, cleaning etc. I never here men on the golf course say 'damn all the emails are piling up or the washing isn't being done'. I agree that a large part of the puzzle has to be men taking responsibility for their behaviour, however there also needs to be a part of us that says my work is not limitless, it has boundaries, there is a place and a time for me to do what I enjoy. Maybe that is the respect for ourselves we need to nurture in our daughters.

Ah damn, too serious, I am doing 'dry' July and it is really starting to have an effect, maybe I need that one glass of single malt just to get me through tonight :floorlaugh:

BBM- wow, good point.

 

[Curiousasacat]

So true. The fact that my neighbours chose to call the police one fateful night probably saved my life... even my ex admitted that. It's a hard decision to make... call or not to call?? Could be someone's life you hold in your hands... or you could get abused by the neighbours for calling. Having been there myself, it would still be a tough call.

Just very recently, my OH made a noise complaint about our neighbors(not arguing,just loud music and partying at 430am) he yelled at them as they were on the footpath,the next day they were quite loud about the warning they were sent in the mail.
It has been extremely awkward ever since, they have made a couple of derogatory comments that I have overheard and they just seem really peed off about it.
This is why people don't call the police IMO.

 

[itsthevibe]

The name came from a movie originally. The movie was from 1940 and called "Gas Light" In it, a man marries a wealthy woman with the motive to drive her insane and thereby gain her fortune. He starts lighting lamps around the house where she can't see them thereby dimming the lamps in the rest of the house. When she questions it, he tells her she's imagining it. She begins to believe she's going crazy and the ultimate effect is, she is going crazy and that was his intent.

The man above knew what he was doing and why, but most people are unaware that they are doing it because their covert agenda is unknown even to them. They're obviously fighting for something but they don't know what and neither do we.

I remember seeing that movie - it was chilling. And later in my life i understood what it meant, although i didn't make the connection with the movie. But it is so true, the way you end up feeling like you are the one going mad. Basically they send you crazy and then accuse you of it as if that's all there is to any of the concerns you had. Very twisted & evil, but clever as it is very successful for a while. Some people I knew thought I was paranoid because of my suspicions about my ex and some of his activities, but in the end it turned out that the reality was much worse than I had suspected. It made me realise that you just never know what some people are capable of.

 

[itsthevibe]

Originally Posted by CaseClosed
Evening all ... I'd like to send a big Thank You to all the members who have gone to the bridge and placed flowers or are looking after the sunflower cross for Allison.

On another note, I'm still surprised that apparently EBC has not visited her son. Strange!

Maybe she's been banned too?

I recall reading that at first GBC wasn't allowed visitors other than his lawyer, and subsequently potential visitors had to apply to the head of the jail or someone else in authority for permission. I thought a MSM report said that NBC had to apply and was granted a non-contact visit. Having gleaned some sort of feeling about the BC family and how they operate, and knowing a little bit about how visiting works at Arthur Gorrie, I would say they were granted a non-contact visit with a limit of 2 people, and so the family had to decide who would go. They chose NBC and OW. NBC because he is Bwana, and could have been involved, and OW because she is helping with the case from the family side of things - attending the hearings, honing her legal knowledge from the internet, taking up collections etc. He may not have been allowed a second visit yet. EBC may eventually visit if he is granted more regular visits, but I'd say for the time being they won't allow contact visits, which is what most prisoners have, and the non-contact visits will be limited.

Sometime when I get a chance I will do a post about what it's like to have someone in Arthur Gorrie. A relative of mine, a young lad who had sadly lost his way and got involved in car theft, (fortunately back on track now through a lot of hard work and self discipline) was in Arthur Gorrie so know it well as I visited regularly for over a year. I've been meaning to post about it for a while now but the last few weeks have been horrendous - work stress, internet problems and family responsibilities and I have had so little time to spend here - way too little. I HATE missing anything but I've missed a few big chunks in the last few weeks.

Anyway I can tell much about Arthur Gorrie as I know it well - the phone calls, the visits, the letters you send, the money you bank for them etc. A lot of people here have asked questions about it and I know KeentoKnow works in the system so her posts are helpful. But from the perspective of a family member of an inmate it is obviously a lot different. I'll try to find some time sometime on Sunday hopefully.

I'm still wondering what time the mention is on on Monday.

 

[Maigret]

I recall reading that at first GBC wasn't allowed visitors other than his lawyer, and subsequently potential visitors had to apply to the head of the jail or someone else in authority for permission. I thought a MSM report said that NBC had to apply and was granted a non-contact visit. Having gleaned some sort of feeling about the BC family and how they operate, and knowing a little bit about how visiting works at Arthur Gorrie, I would say they were granted a non-contact visit with a limit of 2 people, and so the family had to decide who would go. They chose NBC and OW. NBC because he is Bwana, and could have been involved, and OW because she is helping with the case from the family side of things - attending the hearings, honing her legal knowledge from the internet, taking up collections etc. He may not have been allowed a second visit yet. EBC may eventually visit if he is granted more regular visits, but I'd say for the time being they won't allow contact visits, which is what most prisoners have, and the non-contact visits will be limited.

Sometime when I get a chance I will do a post about what it's like to have someone in Arthur Gorrie. A relative of mine, a young lad who had sadly lost his way and got involved in car theft, (fortunately back on track now through a lot of hard work and self discipline) was in Arthur Gorrie so know it well as I visited regularly for over a year. I've been meaning to post about it for a while now but the last few weeks have been horrendous - work stress, internet problems and family responsibilities and I have had so little time to spend here - way too little. I HATE missing anything but I've missed a few big chunks in the last few weeks.

Anyway I can tell much about Arthur Gorrie as I know it well - the phone calls, the visits, the letters you send, the money you bank for them etc. A lot of people here have asked questions about it and I know KeentoKnow works in the system so her posts are helpful. But from the perspective of a family member of an inmate it is obviously a lot different. I'll try to find some time sometime on Sunday hopefully.

I'm still wondering what time the mention is on on Monday.

Also - maybe they didn't realise it's not visit whenever you like and OW went the first time as she had to go back to Townsville.
Good morning itsthevibe - glad I'm not the only one awake so early on a Sunday

 

[Maigret]

We know the neighbours did call police that night and they were interviewed 3 times about this as stated in thread after thread, and MSM was quoted..too tired to prove it now sorry

If the neighbours called the police - how loud was it - would the girls not have woken up? Is it known that the police attended - or is that rumour?

 

[Wozzle]

Hi to Everyone,
This is my first time posting but I have been reading about Allison’s story from day 1, through all the threads. Her story has touched me so much as all of you on this forum. Allison’s story has also touched the hearts of people all around the world.

Even though I did not personally know her I now feel like I do and that is mainly because of the great posts from the people on this forum that have helped make Allison known to me like a good friend. I love the tenacity, intelligence and empathy which is shown on this forum to help to get Justice for Allison.

From lots of reading here I find that I have become acquainted with forum members here too, you guys are great, never give up that’s the motto! Love it. Leave no stone unturned.

I can only imagine the enormous devastation of the Dickies’ Family losing their daughter, mother and sister Allison so suddenly & tragically. Only came close for me when I nearly lost someone tragically but he was given back to me by the grace of God. Actually losing someone especially tragically like the Dickies’ Family have is beyond despicable.

Allison gave so much during her time on earth, she grew into a wonderful woman with grace and poise, great empathy and love for her family and much more.

As the Sunflower grows and faces the sun, so did Allison, she always faced the sun, she will continue to inspire people from all around the world through her story and will leave a legacy of greatness for her daughters to remember and be proud of and to emulate and to pass on to their children through the generations to come.

Justice will be served.

RIP Allison, you were admired and adored by many. xx

What a lovely post Cyansea.....I think you've described very well what this forum means to all of us. Allison represents all of us in many different ways, be it giving up what would have been a glittering career for her family, or staying with a partner, when you really deserved so much more respect and devotion, because you loved them very much (been there, done that!) etc. etc. Also LOVE the sleuthing going on at the mo.....great stuff - tossing ideas back and forth, providing previous posts and links and relevant articles etc. with quite a few 'funnies' interspersed....it's great reading, thanks everyone!

Love your 'name' Cyansea....hubby and I are are buying a boat when we've sold our houses this year, and I'd been tossing up calling her something related to Allison (as I don't really want MY name on it, as hubby suggests!) I was tossing around variations of Allison's names in my head, and 'A. Dickie' was passed over as not appropriate....then I thought of what had been done to my maiden name when a kid, and wondered what Allison might have had to put up with if her name was called out at roll call as A. Dickie....this is what makes her so very 'real' to us I feel, we relate to her in so many many ways, even silly little thoughts like this! (It crossed my mind that I could always name the yacht after GBC ie. 'A *advertiser censored*' :what: *Wozzle slaps herself for being so facetious!*)

Special shout out to Marlywings and those with such extraordinary (and rapid) 'link-ability'...you have no idea how helpful it is to the forum (I, of course, remember all the things you link to.....but how to find them - and the time! - is completely beyond me! I actually wanted to find a 'dinosaur' for my avatar as I feel technologically challenged, but had to settle for 'Scrat' from Ice Age....who is a ridiculous and inept little fellow....but is amusing, means well and tries hard!)

On I go with the reading (wearing blinkers to dishes in sink...bird needing to be put out....dog hair on carpet....pile of washing....recycling bin overflowing....*sigh*.....)

 

[Strangeworld]

the neighbours did not call police the night Allison disappeared:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...alarms-residents/story-e6frep2f-1226341666902

 

[KG1]

the neighbours did not call police the night Allison disappeared:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...alarms-residents/story-e6frep2f-1226341666902

Following on from the link above:-

Businessman Will Truter was watching television with his family when he heard two screams, then went out into the dark to investigate.

"While I was standing outside we heard a third sound,'' Mr Truter told The Sunday Mail from his Brookfield property, about 4km from Mrs Baden-Clay's home."It was like if someone was screaming and someone kept a hand over their mouth. That was the last we heard."

One of his neighbours who heard the same screams shouted she was going to call the police then phoned Mr Truter to check his family was all right, he revealed.

Mr Truter, who went to police last Saturday after seeing news reports of the disappearance, lives in a house near Rafting Ground Rd, a half-hour walk from Mrs Baden-Clay's Brookfield Rd house.



As I understand it, police discounted these screams as there was a party in the vicinity.

However, the neighbours questioned 3 times were in the vicinity of ABCs house, and it was an adjoining neighbour's dog, Scrap, who ran to the fence and barked incessantly around 10.00pm on the night of 19 April. These neighbours also did not call the police, after hearing loud arguing from the house. All the neighbours adjoining and others were questioned from 20 April, as police door knocked in the area of the house and more. Hope this helps.
BBM

 

[Maigret]

the neighbours did not call police the night Allison disappeared:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...alarms-residents/story-e6frep2f-1226341666902

they were not near neighbours - they live 4 kilometres away

 

[Maigret]

Following on from the link above:-

Businessman Will Truter was watching television with his family when he heard two screams, then went out into the dark to investigate.

"While I was standing outside we heard a third sound,'' Mr Truter told The Sunday Mail from his Brookfield property, about 4km from Mrs Baden-Clay's home."It was like if someone was screaming and someone kept a hand over their mouth. That was the last we heard."

One of his neighbours who heard the same screams shouted she was going to call the police then phoned Mr Truter to check his family was all right, he revealed.

Mr Truter, who went to police last Saturday after seeing news reports of the disappearance, lives in a house near Rafting Ground Rd, a half-hour walk from Mrs Baden-Clay's Brookfield Rd house.

As I understand it, police discounted these screams as there was a party in the vicinity.

However, the neighbours questioned 3 times were in the vicinity of ABCs house, and it was an adjoining neighbour's dog, Scrap, who ran to the fence and barked incessantly around 10.00pm on the night of 19 April. These neighbours also did not call the police, after hearing loud arguing from the house. All the neighbours adjoining and others were questioned from 20 April, as police door knocked in the area of the house and more. Hope this helps.

thanks - so there was no call out - wonder if a call was made to police re noise but there were other more pressing matters and then the noise had died down....

 

[Mountain Misst]

My guess is that perhaps she is unwell from all the unimaginable stress of the past few months.

Whether she knows anything or not, or was directly involved or not, the whole awful tragedy must be taking an enormous toll on her physical and mental health.

That being said, she still has an obligation to do what she must for justice for Allison, whatever that may be. :twocents:

EBC was an only child, born in Lancs, UK; father relocated to Bournemouth. She and NBC married from father's home in Bournemouth. EBC also returned home to her father to await the birth (and delivery) of GBC before returning to Nth Rhodesia with NBC. NBC made a point of commenting (on record) that his family took EBC into the Clay family with open arms. They became her family.
That's the background. EBC has no-one else apart from this dysfunctional Clay family/enclave. She is bound to be under overwhelming stress. All things aside I hope and trust that she is getting good psychological and spiritual support.

 

[Wozzle]

Just back from the bridge...I replaced the dead sunflowers on KeentoKnow's cross. I only bought 6, but it looks better with fresh ones.

IndroMum you are a complete and utter darling! And thankyou for telling us, but I don't want to bask in the reflected glory of your good deeds....I want to be a PART of it. I was going to PM you and ask how I could sling you a few bucks for flowers on behalf of all the websleuthers, but thought I might as well be 'public' as I'm sure many others would feel as I do. I am a very trusting soul and give up my private details to anyone I sense is genuine and sincere (and most people are, I feel...in general, not just here!) However you might value your anonymity and wouldn't want to PM me your address or bank account details. So putting it 'out there'.....how might I get some $$$ to IndroMum (and others more local who wish to replenish flowers) if they would prefer to remain anonymous?

TIA (That's 'thanks in advance' Dr W, not me having a mini-stroke...although some might beg to differ!!!!)

 

[Fuskier]

I have found a couple of articles which may be of interest in relation to the ability to 'age' bloodstains. The first one is from 2006 and sounded promising, insofar as my ability to interpret scientific data is concerned, and the second attachment pdf is in relation to an instrument developed to read and age the bloodstains to assist forensics. So it seems that the process, if not already available is well on the way.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/213892.pdf

Morning all.
KG1. Thank you for posting this article. Since the publication of it in 2006, technology would have advanced even further. Basically authors M. Lee and A. Huber of Implen GmbH, Munich, Germany invented the Implen Nanophotometer and discovered that tiny blood stains can be analysed for 'age' since deposit by minutes, hours, days and months. The National Centre for Forensic Sciences at UCalifornia replicated the study using the Implen Nanophotometer and confirmed that micro blood samples can be analysed for 'age' since deposition. It is now possible to determine the 'age' of a blood stain since deposition in minutes, hours, days and months. I wonder if this method is available to the John Tonge Forensic Center in Queensland? As it is also a portable method, the Nanophotometer can be taken to the crime scene. It would be useful to subject the clothing/shoes of the alleged killer and any alleged accomplice to this testing in the Allison Baden-Clay case. They may be able to determine which blood stain was deposited at death and which blood stains were deposited post mortem for example. It would be interesting to determine if the blood in the Captiva was post mortem blood. MOO.

 

[marlywings]

What a lovely post Cyansea.....I think you've described very well what this forum means to all of us. Allison represents all of us in many different ways, be it giving up what would have been a glittering career for her family, or staying with a partner, when you really deserved so much more respect and devotion, because you loved them very much (been there, done that!) etc. etc. Also LOVE the sleuthing going on at the mo.....great stuff - tossing ideas back and forth, providing previous posts and links and relevant articles etc. with quite a few 'funnies' interspersed....it's great reading, thanks everyone!

Love your 'name' Cyansea....hubby and I are are buying a boat when we've sold our houses this year, and I'd been tossing up calling her something related to Allison (as I don't really want MY name on it, as hubby suggests!) I was tossing around variations of Allison's names in my head, and 'A. Dickie' was passed over as not appropriate....then I thought of what had been done to my maiden name when a kid, and wondered what Allison might have had to put up with if her name was called out at roll call as A. Dickie....this is what makes her so very 'real' to us I feel, we relate to her in so many many ways, even silly little thoughts like this! (It crossed my mind that I could always name the yacht after GBC ie. 'A *advertiser censored*' :what: *Wozzle slaps herself for being so facetious!*)

Special shout out to Marlywings and those with such extraordinary (and rapid) 'link-ability'...you have no idea how helpful it is to the forum (I, of course, remember all the things you link to.....but how to find them - and the time! - is completely beyond me! I actually wanted to find a 'dinosaur' for my avatar as I feel technologically challenged, but had to settle for 'Scrat' from Ice Age....who is a ridiculous and inept little fellow....but is amusing, means well and tries hard!)

On I go with the reading (wearing blinkers to dishes in sink...bird needing to be put out....dog hair on carpet....pile of washing....recycling bin overflowing....*sigh*.....)

Thanks Wozzle ....speaking of boats...I like to think of us as all being in this one big boat called "justice for Allison" & if posting links/info helps to row this boat in any way then I'm more than happy to do so.

There's a suggestion for your boat, "justice"...pronounced as "just us"...lol.

One more boat name suggestion...Sunflower Sea

 

[Mani]

What a lovely post Cyansea.....I think you've described very well what this forum means to all of us. Allison represents all of us in many different ways, be it giving up what would have been a glittering career for her family, or staying with a partner, when you really deserved so much more respect and devotion, because you loved them very much (been there, done that!) etc. etc. Also LOVE the sleuthing going on at the mo.....great stuff - tossing ideas back and forth, providing previous posts and links and relevant articles etc. with quite a few 'funnies' interspersed....it's great reading, thanks everyone!

Love your 'name' Cyansea....hubby and I are are buying a boat when we've sold our houses this year, and I'd been tossing up calling her something related to Allison (as I don't really want MY name on it, as hubby suggests!) I was tossing around variations of Allison's names in my head, and 'A. Dickie' was passed over as not appropriate....then I thought of what had been done to my maiden name when a kid, and wondered what Allison might have had to put up with if her name was called out at roll call as A. Dickie....this is what makes her so very 'real' to us I feel, we relate to her in so many many ways, even silly little thoughts like this! (It crossed my mind that I could always name the yacht after GBC ie. 'A *advertiser censored*' :what: *Wozzle slaps herself for being so facetious!*)

Special shout out to Marlywings and those with such extraordinary (and rapid) 'link-ability'...you have no idea how helpful it is to the forum (I, of course, remember all the things you link to.....but how to find them - and the time! - is completely beyond me! I actually wanted to find a 'dinosaur' for my avatar as I feel technologically challenged, but had to settle for 'Scrat' from Ice Age....who is a ridiculous and inept little fellow....but is amusing, means well and tries hard!)

On I go with the reading (wearing blinkers to dishes in sink...bird needing to be put out....dog hair on carpet....pile of washing....recycling bin overflowing....*sigh*.....)

Hahahahhahha - you are a riot!

Love Scrat - we laugh so hard at his antics - such smart animation (sorry mods OT,,,again)