IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #3

[Ollipop]

Sorry, I thought the dogs traced their scent to the docks? Was it just to the lake then?

I think its unconfirmed. IIRC, LE spokesman only said they were using dogs as a tool of the investigation. Then, Lyric's mother said the dogs went to the bikes, and to the woods. I think the CNN reporter guy on here also said that. Somewhere in there the jetty may have been mentioned. Originally, LE and family were encouraged by whatever the dogs did. But now, nobody seems convinced, so I'm thinking the scent must have just disappeared, either at the lake's edge or at the woods, or perhaps where the woods meet the lake.

I'm not much of a sleuth, I'm afraid. I really don't know, and am falling asleep.

Good night, hoping these children are sleeping soundly somewhere safe and feeling loved.

 

[Shelby2]

As the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a pair of young Iowa cousins enters its seventh day, the search has moved to a landfill and a closer look into the lake near where the girls' bicycles were found last week while a congressman calls for more FBI involvement.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=157018363

 

[GrainneDhu]

No, the reason is that they don't want to present the defence team with alternative scenarios when they eventually make an arrest. If they come out and say "we think bla bla bla happened", when something else happened, you can be sure that would be brought up in trial to create reasonable doubt.

Oooooooo, good catch! Thank you.

 

[Shelby2]

I think the dogs traced the scent to the jetty. One of the dog handlers is part of my doll makers forum on FB, they have been posting updates about it.

Her dog is a cadaver dog, that is all she has "leaked" per say.

Dogs can track a moving scent that is not say walking themselves. I remember very clearly reading about a bloodhound who tracked a child for over 5 miles, that was inside a truck.

It all depends on how the dog was trained and what scenting training methods were used, being FBI dogs, they would like be multi versed and highly trained.

I think this case is just full of smoke and mirrors!

While they investigate what they REALLY think happened.

 

[GrainneDhu]

(BBM) But I'm thinking if there was only one trail leading to the dock, which would indicate them possibly being in the water, as opposed to them being carried away from the dock by somebody.

Dogs instinctively track from the oldest scent to the most recent scent and this instinctive tendency is heavily reinforced by training. If you think about it, the proto-wolf (that was kin of the ancestor of dogs) that tended to track the wrong way probably didn't catch much prey and that's why it was not a direct ancestor to domestic dogs.

Sure, it's possible for dogs to make mistakes, they're not omniscient. But if the dogs trailed to the dock, that's the direction I would tend to think the trail went. Whether the girl(s) were carried or not.

 

[Shelby2]

Dogs instinctively track from the oldest scent to the most recent scent and this instinctive tendency is heavily reinforced by training. If you think about it, the proto-wolf that was kin of the ancestor of dogs that tended to track the wrong way probably didn't catch much prey and that's why it was not a direct ancestor to domestic dogs.

Sure, it's possible for dogs to make mistakes, they're not omniscient. But if the dogs trailed to the dock, that's the direction I would tend to think the trail went. Whether the girl(s) were carried.

No I meant if they were at the waters end of the dock, and then, carried back to land. However, turns out I am wrong and they scent was not traced to the dock but the lakeside.

Remember how they were reported missing a short time ago? I wonder what happened there, if they met up with someone or what?

 

[Shelby2]

Also I think it was Lyric's parent who said they just talked to her about 'stranger danger' etc. I wonder if this was something they had been telling her all along, like most parents, or did they just recently talk to her about it? Was it because they were late that day or some other reason?

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

My 84 year old father is an ebay addict (both selling and bidding). Plus a bunch of web forums about his various interests.

"Largest growing" doesn't mean that the majority of the people in that age group are online, however. It just doesn't seem all that hinky to me that Wylma Cook would have a computer she hasn't used in a year.

Actually, when I think about it, we have computers we haven't used in ten years in this household! My husband cannot bear the idea of throwing a computer away, so they take up space in his closet. Obviously it doesn't mean we're not online.

If something happened and LE confiscated all those old computers as well as our current ones, I think I'd be a little bemused as well. I'd just hope LE had monitors to use with them because we have gotten rid of the old monitors and those old computers are too old to use the new flatscreen monitor.

But my husband refuses to get rid of them. I love him and I choose to see it as a charming quirk since they aren't taking up space in my closet. <LOL>

LOL - I hear you. I am the guilty one here. I really need to try to break down and get rid of a lot of my collection as we could use the space. But I am the same way - I get rid of the old monitors the ones that don't work, /i keep everything else.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think the dogs traced the scent to the jetty. One of the dog handlers is part of my doll makers forum on FB, they have been posting updates about it.

Her dog is a cadaver dog, that is all she has "leaked" per say.

Dogs can track a moving scent that is not say walking themselves. I remember very clearly reading about a bloodhound who tracked a child for over 5 miles, that was inside a truck.

It all depends on how the dog was trained and what scenting training methods were used, being FBI dogs, they would like be multi versed and highly trained.

I think this case is just full of smoke and mirrors!

BBM

Tracking a human inside of a vehicle is very hit or miss. I don't know of any reputable scent dog handler who would say their dog could do it every time.

There's just too many variables. Some vehicles are more air tight than others, some humans don't give off as many scent particles (or, at least, they don't seem to--only dogs can tell for sure and they aren't telling humans), some environmental conditions are better than others, etc.

If it happens, that's great. But if the dog doesn't indicate, it isn't necessarily because the victim did not go that way inside the vehicle.

 

[nskapbt]

Perhaps the vehicle example was a poor one, as it really didn't express the point I was trying to make..which was that dogs can tracking if a person is being carried.

It's almost 2am...I should really be sleeping. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[GrainneDhu]

As the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a pair of young Iowa cousins enters its seventh day, the search has moved to a landfill and a closer look into the lake near where the girls' bicycles were found last week while a congressman calls for more FBI involvement.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=157018363

Thanks for that link. It also said that the Collins are at an undisclosed location so that they can get more rest. I'm glad, I was really worried about them.

 

[Shelby2]

I think a lot of us are getting a little confused with this case..

 

[Shelby2]

Thanks for that link. It also said that the Collins are at an undisclosed location so that they can get more rest. I'm glad, I was really worried about them.

I know, they are going through hell and it shows...

 

[GrainneDhu]

Also I think it was Lyric's parent who said they just talked to her about 'stranger danger' etc. I wonder if this was something they had been telling her all along, like most parents, or did they just recently talk to her about it? Was it because they were late that day or some other reason?

It was Tammy Brousseau, Lyric's aunt, who said that.

It wasn't clear if she did it recently or if there was any specific event that triggered it.

 

[writer7]

I'm going with one of three general theories:

#1 It's a neighbor who saw the way the girls went into the park and followed them in that day. Came up with some ploy to get them to go quickly to the neighbor's house. The girls had probably spoken to the neighbor on their rides before (at least Elizabeth). It's easy enough to think of reasons the girls would drop their bikes. In that scenario, the girls had gotten inside the gate and left the purse where it was themselves.

Which neighbor has the house for it (nobody else home), the car for it; did anyone wash their car trunk or any of the other sorts of clues that were used in other cases? Those are questions for folks who would know, so basically rhetorical here

#2 It's a pedophile who went to the park for this purpose and didn't care which little girls he lured (maybe she, but much less likely). In that case, where would he park? He'd have to be familiar with the park and close neighbors, so he's local to at least a certain degree. How did he know that the neighbors were most all at work? He's been seen in that neighborhood before. He's also smart and not as impulsive as these perps can be. He had the girls throw the purse because he had the presence of mind to think of the cell phone. Did he even know about pings? This is a fairly smart perp, imho. He's probably a cool cucumber in real life and knows he doesn't look out of place. Does he look like a dad of the girls? There's an age range there. Maybe he looks like the grandad, even? What would he say if someone asked why he parked where he did? He'd have a reason ready.

#3 The opportunity perp. This one may have parked in a different spot (or may have originally and moved his car upon watching the girls). He didn't know he'd see the girls where he did that day. He wouldn't have been there as long, possibly. Or there's a very good chance that folks saw him doing whatever it is he does at the park. Does he fish? Why was he there that day, that time? He may be more impulsive because he could have just gotten 'lucky'

So those are my thoughts in case it helps locals think of who to look at or what they might remember that could be helpful. This case may be one that is solved by a parking ticket, imho. It's happened before!

The girls really could be alive. Where would someone like this take them in that town? Summer homes or fishing cottages are some thoughts I had. Prayers for the girls.

 

[~n/t~]

Not sure if this is new information or I'm behind . Anyway, I found a few interesting details I didn't know.

1) I thought Lyric's dad was the only one with a criminal record but it appears mom has one too.

Cook-Morrissey in 2003 was sentenced to four years in federal prison on drug charges that involved conspiracy to cook methamphetamine, court records show. After violating her supervised release, a federal version of parole, Cook-Morrissey was sentenced to five more months in federal custody. She was released in May.

2) They took Elizabeth's older brother's laptop.

A computer was seized from the house, Cook said. A laptop belonging to Elizabeth's older brother was taken earlier in the investigation, she said.

3) Lyric wanted to run away several days before the incident because dad got angry with her for not completing chores. She even packed a bag.

Wylma Cook on Wednesday confirmed that Lyric had tried to run away from home several days before the cousins were reported missing. She said Lyric packed a bag after her father got mad at her for not completing her chores.

"She headed for the door, and I grabbed her," Cook said. "She dropped the backpack and I hugged and kissed her and I said it'll be OK."

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/328855/3/Search-for-missing-Iowa-girls-causes-tensions-to-rise

 

[CN2Souls]

Good Morning Everyone... raying: I hope they bring these Angels home today Safe and Sound

 

[CN2Souls]

Not sure if this is new information or I'm behind . Anyway, I found a few interesting details I didn't know.

1) I thought Lyric's dad was the only one with a criminal record but it appears mom has one too.

2) They took Elizabeth's older brother's laptop.

3) Lyric wanted to run away several days before the incident because dad got angry with her for not completing chores. She even packed a bag.


http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/328855/3/Search-for-missing-Iowa-girls-causes-tensions-to-rise

Great information, thank you n/t-----

I wonder then if they down played the time where they had called the police before and she was at the park and just "came home late"

 

[~n/t~]

Great information, thank you n/t-----

I wonder then if they down played the time where they had called the police before and she was at the park and just "came home late"

The article confused me. Did she run away or did grandma stop her before she did? Did Lyric run off more than once, perhaps?

Also, it said Lyric's mom was sentenced to 4 years in prison and 5 more months after she violated her probation.

It's early and I'm only on my first cup of java so forgive me if my math is screwy.

Lyric is 10 so her year of birth is 2002. That means mom served 4 years when Lyric was 1 year old? Lyric would have been 5 when mom was released? When they say released in May, do they mean May of this year? They added 5 more months because she violated parole.

How much bonding did this mom have with her child? I don't want to be mean and I know this is a victim friendly forum and her criminal background could have nothing to do with the girls disappearance but you have to wonder how this would effect a child. It must not have been easy. As others have said, perhaps Lyric was looking for "love" in all the wrong places and latched on to some unsavoury character (s).

When I read about mom's criminal record, I was overcome with sadness. Poor kids.

 

[CN2Souls]

Attempted Abductions in Iowa.
1. 5/31 /2012 FOREST CITY, IA - The driver of the van is allegedly trying to lure children into his vehicle by either provoking or scaring them. He was last spotted in front of a residence in Forest City around 2:30 &#8211; 3:00 today.
http://www.kimt.com/content/localnews/story/Attempted-Child-Abduction-Alert/un3VqM_9YEiQi8jbszPVkA.cspx


2.5/24/2012 PLEASANT HILL, IA - A possible attempted child abduction was reported at Doanes Park Wednesday around 8 p.m., according to the Pleasant Hill Police Department.
The potential victim who reported the incident was an 8-year-old, white girl who said she was approached by two adults in a black SUV, a police report said. The girl described the driver as a male in his upper 30s to low 40s in age, and a female passenger of the same approximate age with short, curly hair, wearing a yellow shirt.
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2012/05/24/attempted-child-abduction-reported-in-pleasant-hill/

3. 5/19/2012 PERRY, IA. &#8211; The tranquility on Warford Street on Perry&#8217;s west side was broken about 8 p.m. Friday when 11-year-old ZS ran through the door of J and J home, screaming that a man had tried to abduct her and two other girls.
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2012/05/19/child-abduction-attempt-reported-in-perry/

4. 8/5/2011 SIOUX CITY IA - Sioux City Police are searching for two men who allegedly tried to abduct two children Wednesday afternoon in Riverside.
According to police, at noon two men in a 1990's blue and silver van with weathered paint, approached an 11-year-old girl and a 9-year-old boy in the 1100 block of Pacquette Avenue.
http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_705cd5e4-445c-5799-95b1-7b2cd855fdef.html

If anyone one has other please post..