IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #4

[mck16]

Brig, there's nothing wrong with a maxi dress. My point was she smiles, shows no sense of urgency in her affect, but apparently has time to make sure she's well coiffed for the cameras. I don't like her past priorities, and I'm speculating about her current ones. Maybe she has reformed (since May). If so, kudos to her. But she was not there for her child. Her priorities were focused on herself, and my impression is that remains the case. IMO

What the heck is a maxi dress??? tia

 

[Ollipop]

She explained why they got lawyer, who was not present.

 

[brighidin]

Not being snarky. It's raining. I'm bored. Soooo I'm providing info.

Children can suffer a range of problems during their parent’s imprisonment, such as: depression, hyperactivity, aggressive behaviour, withdrawal, regression, clinging behaviour, sleep problems, eating problems, running away, truancy and poor school grades (Boswell and Wedge 2002; Centre for Social and Educational Research 2002; Johnston 1995; Kampfner 1995; Sack
et al 1976; Sharp and Marcus-Mendoza 2001; Shaw 1987; Skinner and
Swartz 1989; Stanton 1980). It is commonly cited that up to 30 per cent
of prisoners’ children suffer mental health problems, compared to 10 per
cent of the general population (Philbrick 1996).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...NB2brM&sig=AHIEtbQkOP3pcVhavRjvR8x2K3j9iTACxQ


The children of women in prison have a greater tendency to exhibit many of the problems that generally accompany parental absence including: low self-esteem, impaired achievement motivation, and poor peer relations. In addition, these children contend with feelings like anxiety, shame, sadness, grief, social isolation, and guilt. The children will often withdraw and regress developmentally, exhibiting behaviors of younger children, like bed wetting . . . As the children reach adolescence, they may begin to act out in anti-social ways. Searching for attention, such pre-teens and teens are at high risk for delinquency, drug addiction, and gang involvement (Women's Prison Association, 1995:9).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...c4bEje&sig=AHIEtbSJDLmSbAuKEtb46QfBOMa60LWK9g

Thanks for the info, pensfan. I appreciate your expertise. Still, I don't want to automatically assume that Lyric is any or all of those things, particularly since we don't know a lot about the wider context of her life while M was incarcerated. We know that at some point she lived with the Collinses and then her Grandma. I would need much more info before pigeon-holing Lyric as "psychologically damaged," which is what the OP articulated. it is possible, and maybe even probable, but we just don't know.

ETA: mck16, a maxidress is a dress that is really long.

 

[Ollipop]

and now i'm what!!?? 32 pages behind after sleeping for 5 hours? Ugh.

 

[tlcya]

BBM

Respectfully, can you point me to a msm link that shows evidence of Lyric being emotionally damaged versus engaging in normal childhood behaviours? I haven't seen any such information but I know I haven't read every article.

It sounds to me like the Cook family has been there for Lyric; the Collins family had custody of her for about 18 months (according to a local poster either in this thread or the previous one) and her grandmother has had custody of her since then.

That's not a stereotypical "Leave it to Beaver" childhood but it doesn't necessarily add up to emotional damage, either.

I am truly not being snarky right now and I hope I didn't sound that way in what I wrote.

Not being snarky. It's raining. I'm bored. Soooo I'm providing info.

Children can suffer a range of problems during their parent’s imprisonment, such as: depression, hyperactivity, aggressive behaviour, withdrawal, regression, clinging behaviour, sleep problems, eating problems, running away, truancy and poor school grades (Boswell and Wedge 2002; Centre for Social and Educational Research 2002; Johnston 1995; Kampfner 1995; Sack
et al 1976; Sharp and Marcus-Mendoza 2001; Shaw 1987; Skinner and
Swartz 1989; Stanton 1980). It is commonly cited that up to 30 per cent
of prisoners’ children suffer mental health problems, compared to 10 per
cent of the general population (Philbrick 1996).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...NB2brM&sig=AHIEtbQkOP3pcVhavRjvR8x2K3j9iTACxQ


The children of women in prison have a greater tendency to exhibit many of the problems that generally accompany parental absence including: low self-esteem, impaired achievement motivation, and poor peer relations. In addition, these children contend with feelings like anxiety, shame, sadness, grief, social isolation, and guilt. The children will often withdraw and regress developmentally, exhibiting behaviors of younger children, like bed wetting . . . As the children reach adolescence, they may begin to act out in anti-social ways. Searching for attention, such pre-teens and teens are at high risk for delinquency, drug addiction, and gang involvement (Women's Prison Association, 1995:9).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...c4bEje&sig=AHIEtbSJDLmSbAuKEtb46QfBOMa60LWK9g

BBM pensfan you are right, children with a tumultuous homelife and a parent incarerated can suffer problems.

GrainneDhu you are right, I also have seen nothing in MSM or elsewhere that would suggest or indicate that Lyric suffered any of those problems due to her mother's incarceration.

Children can and it would not be uncommon for them to suffer issues because of a parental incarceration however we have no reason to believe based on the facts we currently know that Lyric is one of them.

 

[Pensfan]

SBM and BBM

Respectfully, my personal experience is that it isn't so much that disgusting types of people are drawn to meth, it's that meth turns people into disgusting messes.

As Ollipop posted yesterday, Iowa was pretty much the ground zero for the plague of meth making. I provided two references for the Iowa history of this drug in one of the previous threads.

As Ollipop says, most Iowans are within three degrees of separation from someone who has been involved in meth at some point.

I've seen people who were essentially normal (although usually somewhat immature) be turned into people I wouldn't trust to be within a quarter mile of me.

My mistake. It should have stated that meth has the most disgusting type of druggies rather than attracts them.

My area has a heroin plague. A police officer friend explained that the different "plagues" are related to distribution "centers". It is apparently easy to move heroin into my area and it is currently very cheap.

 

[sweetpea33]

Misty just clearing the air why the got a lawyer. were questioned for 3 hrs and accused of harming the children. this was the time they woke them in the middle of the night. the call to comand central last night was a briefing that they have no new leads, no new evidence. family has been providing names of questionable people going back to when they were in high school. trying to think of anything or anyone suspicious. this may be going wider than just the Cedar Valley

 

[brighidin]

Misty just clearing the air why the got a lawyer. were questioned for 3 hrs and accused of harming the children. this was the time they woke them in the middle of the night. the call to comand central last night was a briefing that they have no new leads, no new evidence. family has been providing names of questionable people going back to when they were in high school. trying to think of anything or anyone suspicious. this may be going wider than just the Cedar Valley

Thanks sweetpea!

High school? aren't these people in their mid-30s?? I guess maybe because its a smaller town, but I feel like LE might be grasping at straws here.

 

[Shelby2]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-iowa-girls-fbi-dogs-detect-cousins-scents/story?id=16798151

This link states their scent was picked up near the bikes but states LE didn't provide any additional details.

Thanks. I posted two links, one where one of the moms says the trail stopped at the lake. Lots of conflicting info.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Again, I go back to my question a few posts back...could the dogs have been trailing a scent of the girls that could have been ON the abductor back into the woods or off the bikes, and not the girls themselves? Could the trail of the scent back into the woods be where the bikes were brought back INTO the trail to be dumped...from the back side, since it stopped there?

It's highly unlikely. Not impossible but highly unlikely. Very very unlikely.

 

[GrainneDhu]

search stopped and 2 little girls missing seems so odd to me.lease:

Consider the conditions: temps in the high 90s and high humidity. There had already been several incidents with searchers showing signs of heat distress (not so much they had to be hospitalised) over the weekend.

Rule number one for searchers is "don't become part of the problem." In other words, don't take risks that turn you into another victim.

The town and the rural areas immediately around the town had been searched (both by volunteer foot searchers and SAR dogs).

Searches by LE have continued but they did not feel at that time that further volunteer searches were needed. If that changes, LE said they would put out another call for volunteers.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

If this wait is so agonizing for US, I can't imagine what the families are going through. I can't get the images of the girls faces from their pictures out of my head.

 

[Shelby2]

Can meth use cause any type of damage to the brain?

 

[sweetpea33]

Sweetpea, just a personal question here. You don't have to answer. When bad things happen to young people, especially so close to home, I think e erroneous tames it hard. How are YOU, your family, neighbors coping? This has to be hard for the kids and for the adults.

I think there is a sense of disbelief. it is hard to reconcile that 2 girls could basically vanish and no one saw a thing. the first response is to keep your kids closer. the second is to reach out and help anyway you can. the best way to describe it is that there is a feeling of foreboding. business has to go on like usual, but everything has changed in a way you can't put your finger on. i know my kids feel like their little world here in Iowa isn't the same as it used to be. i think "it happens other places but not here" has really hit them.
Everyone here is touched one way or another. you either know one of the family members or know 5 people that do. I used to live a couple blocks from Misty's house. my kids went to the same elementary school that Lyric now attends. their friends have syblings that know her. I remember when Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin disappeared, I was just a teenager and I am now having a very accute case of deja' vue. it is heart wrenching to me as a mother.

 

[SyraKelly]

I really believe these parents are innocent
At least they are talking with all media & not just national
they are not asking to be paid for their interviews-unlike others who did!!
I really believe these girls were kidnapped at that lake where their bikes were found!!
all JMO

 

[elepher50]

and now i'm what!!?? 32 pages behind after sleeping for 5 hours? Ugh.

Hi Ollipop - hope you had a good rest. It is almost a full time job keeping up to a case if it is hopping like this one is. Not really and new news other than the divers are in the lake now. Discussions about Meth and discussions about flip flops.
Discussions on whether stranger or family or if they are indeed in the lake. Frustrations abound.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Judge puts dad of missing girl under supervision

Authorities will keep a closer watch on the father of one of two missing Iowa cousins, a man with a lengthy criminal history who stopped cooperating with police in the week-old investigation.

A judge granted a prosecution request Thursday to put Dan Morrissey under pretrial supervision while he faces September trials in two drug cases. It means parole officers will make sure Morrissey doesn't violate the terms of his release



Read More: http://wcfcourier.com/news/national...3d9-5c7b-9b71-b4bc2eb0aedd.html#ixzz21BW8BznF

Read More: http://wcfcourier.com/news/national...3d9-5c7b-9b71-b4bc2eb0aedd.html#ixzz21BW0aDHh
http://wcfcourier.com/news/national...cle_b290fbe6-63d9-5c7b-9b71-b4bc2eb0aedd.html

 

[elepher50]

I really believe these parents are innocent
At least they are talking with all media & not just national
they are not asking to be paid for their interviews-unlike others did!!
I really believe this girls were kidnapped at that lake where their bikes were found!!

I agree and I do not think the girls are in the lake. What has to be done to get LE to put more focus on an abduction. There is no signs of struggle, all RSOs have been cleared, no clues or leads to go on - they have no place to start.

Unfortunately when they have no place to start, we usually zip right to the end and IMO the end is a very sad place for these two girls.

 

[Kamille]

Misty just clearing the air why the got a lawyer. were questioned for 3 hrs and accused of harming the children. this was the time they woke them in the middle of the night. the call to comand central last night was a briefing that they have no new leads, no new evidence. family has been providing names of questionable people going back to when they were in high school. trying to think of anything or anyone suspicious. this may be going wider than just the Cedar Valley

So am I to understand that these two parents, who were previously supposedly living with their respective mothers and who were not allowed to have contact with each other are now staying together in a hotel? I believe I read that the no contact order was lifted during this time so that they could be together during the searches, media interviews and police briefings but was the intention also for them to be able to co habitate together again? Is their son also staying with them in this hotel?

Perhaps this is what got the FBI's hinky meter up? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[elmomom]

Can meth use cause any type of damage to the brain?

Meth may be the single worst drug to abuse. Fairly rapidly it destroys the receptors for pleasure in the brain, permanently. Meaning that it takes more and more drug to maintain your staus quo mood, and even if you kick the habit, you have a flat emotional response to things that should make you happy... you basically lose the ability to be happy and normal...
it is just an awful, awful drug for your brain.