IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[hollyblue]

It would be important if either of the girls were expected to testify at DM's trial. However, I remember reading somewhere that DM was expected to plead guilty just the day before the girls went missing. Apparently, he requested a jury trial at that time (just the day before).

JMO, I can't believe the prosecution would make a 10 yo testify in a drug case. They prolly have all the evidence they need. It could be, if the girls were taken because of DM's testimony... what DM says and or doesn't say about the other two. Bad guys will go after something that is precious to you to--- either punish or put the squeeze on than go after you. It's more damning. If that's the case, then whoever it is..is ruthless, and got their point across very rapidly...and bluntly....rather than just make life in general rough through consistent battering, destruction and road blocking. jmo Think of God testing Job.

 

[Considering]

what im still fuzzy about is how sure the family was that the girls would not have gone to that park, but yet they went there to search for them - what caused them to look at this park if the girls never went there -- what prompted them to look there?

This was not the first place they went. T.B. mentioned that they went to several other places first (discussed in one of the previous threads).

 

[Jules71]

That's a very good question. They have said over and over that the girls would never go that far yet they started their search there very quickly. I know LE has said there is no ransom note but what is there was a "blackmail" call and/or note.


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I believe they started searching for the girls at 2. They were at the lake at 2:45. That leads me to believe it was not the first place they looked.

ETA: I do find it odd that the girls were reported missing at 2:45 and police swarmed the lake at 3. That's a mighty fast response time IMO.

 

[nervous_nellie]

Actually, she earlier said that her first polygraph was inconclusive.

Not that it means anything, since polygraphs are woo-woo science. <grumble>

i tend to agree with you about the validity of the poly -- but i was commenting on mm announcing that she had passed the second one, i guess after so many of these cases im just sort of jaded lol....

 

[sreshowtime]

Haven't pulled up the map yet. How far is it to the area you're referring to where a car could have pulled up?

Hey Sarx- here is Hollye's map and a timeline By Ollipop, a local poster
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...a9fb56b4658&msa=0&iwloc=0004c4d406effc9c7306f

the wooded area in question is 42.461147,-92.285645

FYI it worries me greatly, because of how easy it would be to head east from there avoiding more populated metro Waterloo area

and frankly the thought of the bikes/bag being placed there after the fact, is in my mind

Sarx- learning question - can the girls scent have been transferred to the area where the bikes were found, from the bikes or something, not necessarily from them? Or woudl they have physically had to have been there? ( if not that afternoon- at some point)

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Can anyone tell me with 100% certainty what day/time TG reported the bike sighting, the location he saw the bikes, if they were for sure the missing girls' bikes, and if he reported it in person to the police dept, called it in, or only reported it to the LE searching at the lake? No? Ok, that is why we are still discussing it. We are not tearing apart a potential witness. We are trying to nail down the details.

IF the girls were on video at 12:15 by Grandma's and IF TG saw the bikes at 12:27'ish - how did the bikes get there so fast? Were the girls abducted from the lake by their bikes? Or were the abducted from somewhere else and the bikes were planted?

And if LE wants to hear from someone paddle boating between 12-1, they must think the abduction happened between that time?

All we have is 12:15 on video and 15:58 bikes found. A massive window.

It is in LE's court if they want to share a tighter timeline.

 

[nervous_nellie]

That's a very good question. They have said over and over that the girls would never go that far yet they started their search there very quickly. I know LE has said there is no ransom note but what is there was a "blackmail" call and/or note.


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yeah, i honestly dont know... thats why i was asking if anyone knew if there was a specific reason that they went to this park or if they were just searching all parks, etc....

 

[GrainneDhu]

Ok, who said they were told they aced their LDT? And did that come straight from them or through the grapevine?

Jumping around a bit. The dogs brought in, were they local FBI or were they flown in? TIA

The search over the first weekend involved locally trained dogs, including cadaver dogs (this should be considered rumour since I am not a verified member; I got the info from a friend who was called out with her dog).

Then the FBI flew in one Bloodhound from Virginia and another Bloodhound from Omaha.

It's the results of the FBI dogs that are being discussed. The information about the results as interpreted by a family member who witnessed the dogs working but probably has no experience with tracking dogs.

So take the info for what you think it's worth.

 

[sarx]

Hey Sarx- here is Hollye's map and a timeline By Ollipop, a local poster
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...a9fb56b4658&msa=0&iwloc=0004c4d406effc9c7306f

the wooded area in question is 42.461147,-92.285645

FYI it worries me greatly, because of how easy it would be to head east from there avoiding more populated metro Waterloo area

and frankly the thought of the bikes/bag being placed there after the fact, is in my mind

Sarx- learning question - can the girls scent have been transferred to the area where the bikes were found, from the bikes or something, not necessarily from them? Or woudl they have physically had to have been there? ( if not that afternoon- at some point)

Thanks for the link and the coords SRE.
Yes, there could be residual scent on the bikes that would transfer to the area, but it's going to be very tiny and not something that is going to leave a solid trail. So, enough for a dog to say "yep,that's her bike", but not likely enough to follow the direction the bike came in from.

 

[nervous_nellie]

All we have is 12:15 on video and 15:58 bikes found. A massive window.

It is in LE's court if they want to share a tighter timeline.

so the 15:58 is the official le time of finding the bikes? and le is as of todays presser not confirming gamerdinger finding the bikes at 12;20-27...

 

[sarx]

The search over the first weekend involved locally trained dogs, including cadaver dogs (this should be considered rumour since I am not a verified member; I got the info from a friend who was called out with her dog).

Then the FBI flew in one Bloodhound from Virginia and another Bloodhound from Omaha.

It's the results of the FBI dogs that are being discussed. The information about the results as interpreted by a family member who witnessed the dogs working but probably has no experience with tracking dogs.

So take the info for what you think it's worth.

Thank you much.

 

[cluciano63]

Back when those distinctions were put into place, it was assumed that in a kidnapping for ransom, the victim would be treated fairly well. Not as traumatised as a victim kidnapped for sexual purposes.

I honestly can't remember a kidnapping for ransom in Iowa within the last 30 years, maybe longer. I think people who wanted money that badly figured out that it's easier to get away with robbing banks than it is to get away with kidnapping for ransom.

I agree, ransom kidnappings just don't happen, almost.

But the sentence for murder is basically the same as first-degree kidnapping, so that is worrisome to me. If they were kidnapped for sexual purposes, for instance, there would be no incentive, really, to release them alive.

 

[SapphireSteel]

NO ONE HAS CONFIRMED THE GIRLS WERE EVER AT THE LAKE.

Full stop.

Right?

The dogs got their scent but as dogs can't talk, we don't know how old the scent was.

No eye witness has actually confirmed the girls made it to the lake that day, at all.

 

[elmomom]

I believe they started searching for the girls at 2. They were at the lake at 2:45. That leads me to believe it was not the first place they looked.

ETA: I do find it odd that the girls were reported missing at 2:45 and police swarmed the lake at 3. That's a mighty fast response time IMO.

I don't find it odd at all - while at the lake, Gram and Aunt Tammy were told by a guy that he had seen them a little while earlier, so they told this info to LE. As for "swarming" the lake, do we really have any idea of how much LE was sent to the lake initially, and if the "swarm" was at first a trickle until after 4PM when the bikes were found? You would think if they immediately swarmed the area, the bikes would have been found even sooner.
Jmo

 

[JaimeInLA]

I hadn't heard about the accomplices.

Surely, with a case of that magnitude, an accomplice would have more threatening witnesses to want to silence than a child, right? Maybe the girls weren't the witnesses. Maybe dads change in plea was a threat to the others? IDK....poor babies.

Dan is facing 5 counts that each carry a 45-year prison term. He is in deep, deep doo-doo. So if he pled guilty to get that reduced, and flipped on people, I can see them being mad enough to do harm to those closest to him.

This is the most thorough article I have seen on their criminal backgrounds. (Not accusing them of being involved! Just for the record!) --
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...of-involvement-Lyric-Cooks-disappearance.html

 

[Unscripted]

I believe they started searching for the girls at 2. They were at the lake at 2:45. That leads me to believe it was not the first place they looked.

ETA: I do find it odd that the girls were reported missing at 2:45 and police swarmed the lake at 3. That's a mighty fast response time IMO.

Gma (WC) says they started looking for the girls at 12:30 because she (Gma) was supposed to take Lyric and be back home by 1:30. They (Gma and Elizabeth’s older brother) drove everywhere — Elk Run, all the parks and the lake etc.

http://www.9news.com/video/1742383520001/1/Missing-Iowa-girls-Lyric-Cook-Morrisseys-grandma-talks

 

[vasportsmom]

So we have:

11:30 Girls leave E's house
12:15 Girls seen on video
12:20 T.G. Sees abandoned bikes
2:00 Girls are late - Aunt, Gmom & brother start search - are told be neighbor (name?) he was watering lawn between 12-3 and saw girls. Verified local thinks this odd or unlikely.
2:45 H.C reports girls missing at local LE station
3:00 Lake is swarmed by police
3:57 Bikes found by LE (fireman?)

I need to go grab links to back all this up but I'll need to get my laptop. What else should be on here and I'll start looking for MSM conformation?



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[oceanblueeyes]

I haven't followed tons of cases here so this is probably a stupid question that has been answered many times but if I fail a LDT yet go to the media and say I passed would LE comment on that? Would they leak the truth using an unnamed LE source perhaps?


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Not that I can recall, vasport.

People usually tell the truth though because they are very aware if they speak out in the media the police will know about it.

IMO

 

[jacy]

First, welcome to WS! Great first post! I do agree with everything you said, so thank you for saying it.

I also want to add that people seem so fast to accuse witnesses of changing times and details, but not so quick in figuring out that the info that is given to LE is what is important, not the info given to us by shoddy reporting. We have no idea of how consistent or inconsistent stories are, since we are only hearing them through varying degrees of reporting.

BBM. Just the other day a major national network gave completely twisted information, as if they'd read it off Facebook. Saw the same in the Irwin case. It's frustrating.

 

[Considering]

We aren't talking about a random man in jeans looking at the lake. We are talking about the mother of a missing/endangered 10 year old girl. I did not post that video here to declare it into evidence or point to any possible guilt. I posted that video to ask others opinions about the identity and to include it into any other conversations about oddities of this case. You may see this as perfectly normal behavior. I do not. Neither do many others.

I also found the grandmother's declaration of her son's innocence perplexing. Stating that he couldn't have "commited a murder or abduction" as he doesn't have a job or a car. Not, "My son couldn't have done this because he LOVES his daughter". Just an observation on words used.

I didn't say it was a random man. You asked for others opinions and I gave you mine. It's just different than yours. People have different opinions here. We wouldn't learn much if we didn't. :moo: