IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[cluciano63]

I had to laugh that your post had "just my opinion, of course" under it. Nope, it's pretty much fact that it's tomorrow in the UK. Hahahaha.

No, that is my permanent signature...keeps me from typing it all the time, lol

 

[BlueIris]

Ok, I am jumping to my laptop and gonna start wading through threads and google for links. When I get done I do no expect to be a billion pages behind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM -- good luck with that one~! LOL

 

[IAM]

Has there been any description given of the girl's clothing other than Lyrics character flip flops and Elizabeth's black high tops and purple purse?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Also...on the point of the paddle boater? I have a feeling this person isn't going to come forward now...would you? I mean it's 10 days after the fact and you now are going to come forward and say you were there...even if you were? Let the questions begin...

SBM

I keep wondering just how good the paddle boat lead was. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

If two different people, unknown to each other, said they saw a paddle boat on the lake on Friday, then okay, I believe it.

If one person told LE Friday afternoon that there was a paddle boat on the lake a few hours previously, I think that sounds fairly reliable.

But if the lead was called in after Friday, then I have to wonder if that person actually saw a paddle boat on Thursday and conflated it with the next day.

 

[Sere-nity]

If the last seen time they are giving is 12:15 at the store video, why haven't the search dogs start at the store?

Why would the girls stay out past 1:15? They knew Grandma was leaving at that time.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I just noticed the date on this article is "July 24, 2012, Tuesday"? Today is Monday, the 23rd?

Because the UK is a day ahead of us by 12 hours, iirc. :waitasec:

 

[GrainneDhu]

GranneDhu

I'm busy downstairs and can't listen to two things at once, but I think this may be the video of Aunt Tammy talking about the search dogs if you want to listen and check.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/07/17/girls-8-10-vanish-bike-trail

Thank you very much!

I prepared by making a crude cross and draping my neck with a braid of garlic, then I played the video. And surprisingly, my blood pressure did not soar; NG was actually civilised (but she still has That Voice).

That was an interview with Jim Spellman; none of the family was on it. He did describe much of what Aunt Tammy had said in other interviews about where the dogs went.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>
How? perhaps he takes two little girls he knows, and has THEM ride the bikes onto the pathway - he blends in? He looks like a dad out with his two kids? Perhaps they ARE his kids, or a friend's kids? Not sure. But - they take the bikes, ride them to where they were found, and dump them on the pathway??

That just MIGHT account for the guy Tammy talked to who said he saw two girls riding on the trail just before they arrived to search --

Just thinking out loud - what do you think of *that* theory?

BBM... this is exactly what I keep thinking about. I've seen it said that it'd be odd/out of the ordinary/draw attention to see a man with two girls. Really?? Unless the kids looked scared or were crying, yelling, etc. I wouldn't think anything of it. In fact I often feel bad for single dads because I know sometimes people DO think the worst when they see Dad out and about with his little girl... IMO they should be able to take their child to a park without getting suspicious looks.

I've also seen it said it'd be odd or out of the ordinary to see two bikes laying down on the bike trail. I see ditched bikes all the time, and know of parents who refuse to buy their kid another bike because the kid left the last one on the sidewalk or street and it got stolen or damaged. Just not out of the ordinary to me.

Maybe anywhere I've ever lived is very different from the "norm"? I don't really think so but who knows.

None of the above (my post not the quoted one) helps with finding the girls, but the theory you mentioned might help better explain the timeline.

 

[Gracelin]

Hi Guys

Newbie here.
Sorry if this has been covered but ive missed most of todays posts.

Its been mentioned before many many posts ago about a Shannon Mathewshere in the UK,
Kidnapping of Shannon Matthews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
do you think this case may be similar?.With LE looking at family members and saying that they believe the girls to be alive etc.

Welcome to WS ScotsPaddy!
I very interesting first post! I like the way you think. I think we have to look outside the box in this very strange case. Your post is one example of how we can..

 

[passionflower]

Hi Guys

Newbie here.
Sorry if this has been covered but ive missed most of todays posts.

Its been mentioned before many many posts ago about a Shannon Mathewshere in the UK,
Kidnapping of Shannon Matthews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
do you think this case may be similar?.With LE looking at family members and saying that they believe the girls to be alive etc.

excellent!

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thankyou for all you do!
I was referring to the family in the video being so relaxed and composed.....
I would be so tearful, upset and could not think clearly but that's me.......

Grandma Vicki Weikert, like the rest of the family, has not been named as a person of interest or a suspect.

She seems like a normal Iowan to me. I look at her eyes and her eyebrows and there's worry there. She's trying to seem normal but I get a feeling she was probably speaking a little faster than usual because her grammar was slipping. With most Iowans, those are the size of the signs of concern.

I've seen Iowans picking their way through their houses that were hit by a tornado or destroyed by floodwaters. Even though it's a total wreck, they are still composed and polite when they speak to media. They still smile, they don't act upset. They just try hard to project an image of calm competence.

I've gone to fundraisers for farmers who were severely injured or killed in farm accidents. The family, from oldest to youngest, acts calm and tries to emphasise that they are bearing up and will find their way through this trial.

It's hard to explain. It isn't a lack of caring; Iowans care deeply. But there's a generalised horror of crying in public. I'm only 1% joking when I say that most Iowans (myself included) would rather chop off their hand with a rusted tin can lid than cry in front of a camera.

 

[SapphireSteel]

How do you explain other cases where innocent parties say they were told by LE they passed the poly?

Alleged?

Or do you have specific cases for me to comment on?

Were they polys given by good ole boys or the FBI?

Too many variables in this question for me to answer sorry.

I just know that LE are NOT in the habit of informing possible suspects of their test results, as a general rule. That's for talk shows.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

If the last seen time they are giving is 12:15 at the store video, why haven't the search dogs start at the store?

Why would the girls stay out past 1:15? They knew Grandma was leaving at that time.

Why indeed? That is possibly the best idea yet. They have nothing to lose and might gain something.

 

[gregjrichards]

Hi Guys

Newbie here.
Sorry if this has been covered but ive missed most of todays posts.

Its been mentioned before many many posts ago about a Shannon Mathewshere in the UK,
Kidnapping of Shannon Matthews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
do you think this case may be similar?.With LE looking at family members and saying that they believe the girls to be alive etc.

Hi I'm from Scotland too.

The family would be getting jail time and be subject to public anger if this is a copycat case. I don't know if this is the same situation I hope not. I just want the girls found alive like everybody else.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I posted about Shannon Matthews way back in thread 2 and it got deleted.

It was the first thing that occured to me, too.

Now that so much time has gone by I have almost completely discounted it, merely because something like that takes some forward planning and organisational skills that I doubt these people are capable of.

Just like I doubt their local king pin drug dealer is capable of planning a revenge abduction of two little girls.

For the poster who pointed out the scourge that drugs have cut through middle America - thanks for that...but all it means is that an increasing amount of families are going to look as dysfunctional as this one does, if you put them under a microscope. This disease touches everyone and unfortunately small town America is not the simple, safe environment it once was. Mom and Pop no longer have 3.5 kids and a white picket fence. Times have changed and people are going to appear shifty, as though they are lying and withholding evidence, because they probably are - whether it's related to their child's abduction or not, remains to be seen but my gut is telling me this mob couldn't organise a p iss-up in a brewery, as we say here.

Drug users regard LE as their natural enemy and are going to be uncooperative, simply because that is the nature of the beast. It doesn't mean they are involved.

Oh and the courts aren't going to put back hearing your case for any reason, including dying kittens or missing children. You could lose a leg and the trial will go ahead, they'll just hand you a stool.

:moo:

 

[palaminodee]

From NG transcripts

COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

I left for work. At 2:00 o`clock, my mother, their grandmother, called and said she couldn`t find them. They`d been on a bike ride, and you know, to come directly to Heather`s home. I only work just up the street. I came directly there.

My mom had been driving around looking for them. We stood in the yard and talked for a few minutes. Heather pulled up, had not been able to find them. It was about 2:20, 2:30 PM. And so Heather said, I`m going to the police station. And that`s when she went to the Evansdale PD to involve them.

Tammy
When Mom -- I had met Mom at her house because we had had some plans. She had originally left. When Misty showed up to pick up Lyric, and Mom said, you know, The girls have been off and it`s been a little bit too long, but you know, you guys need to go find your kids, Tammy and I have some other things that we`re doing, and Tammy`s at the house.

So Mom came and got me. We got a phone call back from Drew (ph), Elizabeth`s father, saying, You guys need to get back here and help. So me and Mom jumped in the car, and right away we came back. Kelly -- we picked up Kelly, the 12-year-old son, and we started going to all these places that they`d already checked.

I said immediately to my mom, I said, Take me to Meyers Lake, take me to Meyers Lake. This is approximately a quarter to 2:00 when I asked -- or a quarter to 3:00 when I asked Mom to take me to Meyers Lake.


Any idea why Aunt T immediately suggested going to Meyer's Lake?
Did any interviews ever mention where Aunt T was up until the girls went missing?

Just a couple questions I do not recall getting answered in this case

 

[Unscripted]

Thank you very much!
I prepared by making a crude cross and draping my neck with a braid of garlic, then I played the video. And surprisingly, my blood pressure did not soar; NG was actually civilised (but she still has That Voice).
That was an interview with Jim Spellman; none of the family was on it. He did describe much of what Aunt Tammy had said in other interviews about where the dogs went.

Excellent, should you lose your way we’ll be able to find you by just sniffing the breeze — no tracking dogs required. :dance:

 

[paris_paris]

I've been busy with grandkids, so will admit I haven't read every post.

I had a thought a couple of days ago. Could the girls have ridden from behind the store (at 12:15) to the lake... laid the bikes on the path and bike rider saw the bikes (at 12:27)... girls are off poking around somewhere in the area... then back on their bikes to ride around the lake area (or past the home of the guy watering his yard)... then back to the spot by the lake and put the bikes against the fence?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Alleged?

Or do you have specific cases for me to comment on?

Were they polys given by good ole boys or the FBI?

Too many variables in this question for me to answer sorry.

I just know that LE are NOT in the habit of informing possible suspects of their test results, as a general rule. That's for talk shows.

Sure. Cases that come immediately to mind are Kyron Horman and Sierra LaMar.

In the Kyron Horman case, Kaine Horman and Desiree Horman both said very early on that they took polygraphs and were told they passed. I don't know who administered them but the FBI was called in very early, just as in this case.

In the Sierra LaMar case, Marlene LaMar and Rick Gardiner (her BF), said early on that they'd taken polygraphs and passed. Again, I don't know who administered them but the FBI was called in very early.

I cannot remember reading a case under investigation where LE came out and said whether someone passed, failed or got an inconclusive on their polygraph. Once the case has been solved (with conviction), it can come out but before a conviction, there may be rumours but nothing directly from LE.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Alleged?

Or do you have specific cases for me to comment on?

Were they polys given by good ole boys or the FBI?

Too many variables in this question for me to answer sorry.

I just know that LE are NOT in the habit of informing possible suspects of their test results, as a general rule. That's for talk shows.

I just remembered a case where LE told their chief suspect repeatedly that he had gotten an inconclusive: Amber DuBois's stepfather. They kept teling him they knew he'd done it because he was not passing his multiple polygraphs.

Also, Steve Groene was told by LE that he had failed one or more questions on his polygraph. Again, it was used as a pressure tactic to try to get a confession.

Neither man was guilty of doing anything more than not scoring well on a device that is woo-woo science at best.