GUILTY NC - PFC Kelli Bordeaux, 23, Fayetteville, 14 April 2012 - #9

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We don't, because we're not investigators on the police force, but LE sure does and I suspect KB's family knows as well. LE and KB's family (rightly or wrongly) continue to believe NH is involved.

Go back to the beginning threads and reread as there has been a lot of detail posted over the first couple of weeks.
 
In the article they indicate that the person committing the area sexual assaults is believed to have scoped out his victims first.
I believe he entered their homes. He may have wanted to do that in Kelli's case too but something went wrong as far as he was concerned
in that she put up a fight.

Sometimes a rapist changes his method too. He could have been in FB's earlier. I wonder if any of the peeps there were ever asked about the Orange County motorcycle sweatshirt or if LE even had that info when they were being questioned.
 
But Kelli wasn't attacked in her home! No sign of B&E, nothing disturbed or out of place. No one heard a woman being attacked, no noises, no one spotted at or around KB's apartment. Again, where did this attack occur? KB's keys, phone missing as well. KB never made it home.
 
But Kelli wasn't attacked in her home! No sign of B&E, nothing disturbed or out of place. No one heard a woman being attacked, no noises, no one spotted at or around KB's apartment. Again, where did this attack occur? KB's keys, phone missing as well. KB never made it home.

I know. He could have been trying to follow her into her home. He could have been following her and targeting her.
 
And so could have NH as well. NH said he dropped her off outside her apt complex. Do we know that's true? And why is NH's story believed then?

KB never made it to her home. Not to her front door, not inside her apt. She never was seen again. No sounds, no one seen around the apartment. No sign that she (or anyone) had been in or at her apartment or apartment door that night.

What are the odds of a registered sex offender giving KB a ride home, but not taking her home and she gets out and THEN an area rapist gets his clutches on her, and for some strange reason, is compelled to send a text message from KB's phone? I'd say those odds are near zero.
 
I don't believe we know the sequence of Kelli's texts or the timeline. In other words, we haven't seen a printout of her text messages from that evening showing who they were to and from.
Who told us, in the first place, about the text 'got home safely' and do we know it's the exact verbiage that was actually used. It seems to me that was a male friend who gave that info on national TV but was it ever substantiated by LE? The context of all of her texts, that LE has but we don't, would be helpful to understand if the texts sound out of place or not.

Kelli's brother gave us the info that the last text said "Got home safely" and was sent to Kelli's friend Justin (as was the earlier text that said she was getting a ride home with a man).

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/04/23/1173168?sac=fo.military
 
Thanks Chili! Case amnesia is a common occurrence, which is why those early threads in the first 2 weeks of the case are so helpful.
 
The point is, if they ever charge anyone and the case goes to trial, LE has to have evidence. The Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is the perp. Part of WS, to me, is pointing out the open gaps and hoping LE has the answers for them to satisfy a jury. If they do, then they should charge the suspect. If they don't, then good luck in court. Sometimes, what we think and what is are two different things. The lawyers have to have concrete evidence.

What makes you think NH could do this to Kelli and hide his crime so well? His original crime was against a child in her own home knowing the mother would be home soon. How does that fit an m.o.?

Just asking the questions - have not been given the tools to answer them.
 
Kelli's brother gave us the info that the last text said "Got home safely" and was sent to Kelli's friend Justin (as was the earlier text that said she was getting a ride home with a man).

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2012/04/23/1173168?sac=fo.military

So Justin is the guy who was on TV? The guy who used to be Kelli's boss? Because he was the guy who first said that and Kelli's bro said 'let's just call him Justin' or something like that. It's all sketchy info imo as to who sent what to who, etc. We don't know who 'Justin' is.
 
Don't ditch me when I ask some good questions.
That's what everybody used to do to me in Caylee's case too because they so badly wanted KC to go to the death chamber. Honestly.
 
The point is, if they ever charge anyone and the case goes to trial, LE has to have evidence. The Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is the perp. Part of WS, to me, is pointing out the open gaps and hoping LE has the answers for them to satisfy a jury. If they do, then they should charge the suspect. If they don't, then good luck in court. Sometimes, what we think and what is are two different things. The lawyers have to have concrete evidence.

What makes you think NH could do this to Kelli and hide his crime so well? His original crime was against a child in her own home knowing the mother would be home soon. How does that fit an m.o.?

Just asking the questions - have not been given the tools to answer them.

We can't know the gaps in the case because we are not privy to the details of the investigation beyond what's published in the media. And how much of that is correct we don't know either. Gaps may be imagined where there is none. Or maybe there are huge gaps other than what we can see because we don't have the information. We'll never know until or unless LE or the DA or the family discloses this information.

No DA worth their salt is going to allow an arrest and indictment if they don't have a case they feel they can prosecute successfully. That's a given. Cases can take many years to resolve. Some cases are never resolved.

I don't know NH, don't know the content of all his statements to LE, don't know what evidence LE has, or anything about NH's personality, proclivities or anything else. LE is focused on NH for some reason. They know more than I do, that much is certain.

Why would I think it impossible or unlikely that NH could be involved? Based on what? He was the last known person to be with KB that night. LE has said they believe NH has information about what happened to KB. Why would I think LE is wrong about that? Based on what?
 
Exactly, that's why on Websleuths we have a place where we can discuss a crime and examine it from all possibilities until facts specifically lead us in one direction. In Kelli's case, NH is one direction but, to me, others remain.
 
The point is, if they ever charge anyone and the case goes to trial, LE has to have evidence. The Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is the perp. Part of WS, to me, is pointing out the open gaps and hoping LE has the answers for them to satisfy a jury. If they do, then they should charge the suspect. If they don't, then good luck in court. Sometimes, what we think and what is are two different things. The lawyers have to have concrete evidence.

What makes you think NH could do this to Kelli and hide his crime so well? His original crime was against a child in her own home knowing the mother would be home soon. How does that fit an m.o.?

Just asking the questions - have not been given the tools to answer them.
The obvious thing about Holbert, if he did it, is that he hasn't hidden his crime well. He's committed a crime where he is the obvious suspect, just like he did with the girl he molested.

The other question is...why would he attack an adult female when he attacked a child before? There is something called a situational child molester. From a NCMEC report created by a former FBI Supervisory Special Agent. Here are some excerpts of that report:


Situational-Type Child Molesters
The situational-type child molester does not usually have compulsive-paraphilic sexual preferences including a preference for children. He may, however, engage in sex with children for varied and sometimes complex reasons. For such a child molester, sex with children may range from a “once-in-a-lifetime” act to a longterm pattern of behavior.


Regressed - Such an offender usually has low self-esteem and poor coping skills; he turns to children as a sexual substitute for the preferred-peer sex partner. Precipitating stress may play a bigger role in his molesting behavior. His main victim criterion seems to be availability, which is why many of these offenders molest their own children.

Morally Indiscriminate - For this offender the sexual victimization of children is simply part of a general pattern of abuse in his life. He is a user and abuser of people. He abuses his wife, friends, and coworkers. He lies, cheats, or steals whenever he thinks he can get away with it. He molests children for a simple reason—“Why not?” His primary victim criteria are vulnerability and opportunity. He has the urge, a child is available, and so he acts. He typically uses force, lures, or manipulation to obtain his victims. He may abduct his victims using trickery or physical force. Although his victims frequently are strangers or acquaintances, his victims can also be his own children or those of his live-in girlfriend.

http://www.yellodyno.com/pdf/OJJDP_Child_Molesters_Behavioral_Analysis.pdf
 
Exactly, that's why on Websleuths we have a place where we can discuss a crime and examine it from all possibilities until facts specifically lead us in one direction. In Kelli's case, NH is one direction but, to me, others remain.


Yes speculation is a main sporting event in cases. Sometimes facts are even made up or imagined to assist in weaving some creative scenarios.

Since I like to focus on known facts in cases, that requires me to be patient until a case is cracked and information comes out.


As for why would NH attack Kelli?

She's an attractive, petite, outgoing, friendly young woman. He would probably be attracted to her, as would many men. If it was NH who was responsible, maybe he didn't start out with any intention of attack. Maybe it was a pass rebuffed. Maybe something escalated from a rejection by KB and the situation got out of hand. He's not saying.
 
Exactly, that's why on Websleuths we have a place where we can discuss a crime and examine it from all possibilities until facts specifically lead us in one direction. In Kelli's case, NH is one direction but, to me, others remain.

I totally agree. Could NH have done this? Absolutely he could have, and he seems to be the most obvious suspect, though unnamed. But it is entirely possible that he is LE's prime unnamed suspect for the very same reason he is many's prime suspect here...because he is a RSO and is the last person KNOWN to have seen her. It certainly seems to me that LE either has no evidence to support their feelings, or at the very least, woefully lacking evidence to charge him with her disappearance and/or murder. At this point, like you, I am still willing to look at other possible suspects. JMO
 
There you go you've solved the case. LE have nothing on NH - nothing.

We can't know the gaps in the case because we are not privy to the details of the investigation beyond what's published in the media. And how much of that is correct we don't know either. Gaps may be imagined where there is none. Or maybe there are huge gaps other than what we can see because we don't have the information. We'll never know until or unless LE or the DA or the family discloses this information.

No DA worth their salt is going to allow an arrest and indictment if they don't have a case they feel they can prosecute successfully. That's a given. Cases can take many years to resolve. Some cases are never resolved.

I don't know NH, don't know the content of all his statements to LE, don't know what evidence LE has, or anything about NH's personality, proclivities or anything else. LE is focused on NH for some reason. They know more than I do, that much is certain.

Why would I think it impossible or unlikely that NH could be involved? Based on what? He was the last known person to be with KB that night. LE has said they believe NH has information about what happened to KB. Why would I think LE is wrong about that? Based on what?
 
There you go you've solved the case. LE have nothing on NH - nothing.

Huh?

I haven't seen the case files. Have you? How do you know what LE has and doesn't have?

The only thing we know at this moment is there's been no arrest for KB's disappearance, KB hasn't been found, and LE is doing whatever LE does in investigations.
 
It seems that the searches have been scaled back to every other Saturday instead of every Saturday. Does any local have any idea how many people are still showing up for those searches? Is it an extremely small number?
 
While I am hoping that this body found off of Ramsey Street is KB simply so that her family will know where she is for once and for all, my gut is telling me that it's not her. Think about it: hypothetically, if for whatever reason, you murdered somebody & you had a WHOLE weekend (Late Friday night/early Saturday morning through Sunday afternoon), would you really dispose of the body three miles, give or take some, from the location where the victim was last seen? I know if it were me, I would get the heck outta dodge, maybe go to a different state. I think that's why this case has been so baffling, just because the perp had so much time between Kelli's last appearance & when she was reported missing. If you're smart enough about the situation, a lot can happen in 48 hours. However, I have met a ton of people during my 21 years in Fayetteville and I would say that a good majority of them would not be intelligent enough to pull off a disappearance such as this one: no clues, no real evidence, and a bunch of dead ends, which is a reason I feel like the body found could be KB's, but that's about the only reason.

As for NH, my hubby and I have discussed this time and time again. I wish we knew more about his situation with the child back when he was a teenager. If he did it simply because he's attracted to children (yikes), why would he target an older (older than a child, obviously) woman? But, people go through crazy changes between the age when he committed the offense and the age he is now, so maybe his types of attraction have changed.
If he committed those despicable acts with that child simply out of curiosity, then he would be a more plausible suspect in this case for me. I have different feelings on different days about NH. Some days, I think there are too many variables that pin him to this disappearance, but there are other days when I just think that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm just really on the fence about him.

Something my husband and I also discussed was KB's husband recently creating a Zoosk account: an online dating website. I am friends with her husband on Facebook & the update came up on my newsfeed that he had joined the site and linked it with his Facebook. I think he removed the link though as soon as it posted because I went back to check it out and it was gone. Something seems weird there. You know, while his wife may be gone and there's no certainty that she's coming back alive, there's still a level of sensitivity that needs to be respected, at least until the case has been resolved. If I were to go missing, my husband told me that he would be out on his own every day doing everything he could to find me and it would certainly take him longer than three months to move on from the situation and start dating again. So why is MB so quick to jump back into the dating world while his wife's disappearance is under such heavy investigation? Seems odd and offsetting IMO.

There is a lot going on behind closed doors and I think this steady quiet that we've been experiencing the past month or two is just the calm before the storm. I think that LE has a grasp on who the perp is and at this point, they're just collecting hard evidence and building a case against this person before they make an arrest. I have no doubt in my mind that have pin pointed exactly who did it.

Another thing I am on the fence about is their marriage. It literally could go either way with me. Maybe they didn't have problems. Maybe they did. But, Kelli going out to the same bar two or three times does not signify marriage problems. I've seen people on different websites saying that they must have had marriage problems if she was going out to bars without him, but my husband works nearly every night of the week and I, personally, find it a bit relaxing to go out to a bar and have a few drinks with friends. I go to a bar local to Fayetteville every Friday night to unwind and relax and have fun. Does that mean there are problems with my marriage? No. My marriage is not perfect, but sometimes a girl has to let her hair down! I think it was an honest mistake on Kelli's part - a wrong place, wrong time of sorts. From what I understand, the night that she vanished, she was not with friends; she was there alone with the exception of NH, a man she barely knew. I think KB had been working hard all week and wanted a break; to go somewhere casual and gritty and a place that she thought was safe.

Cases like this kind of make you realize just how something minuscule could make a difference; such as going alone to a bar as opposed to taking a friend.

Sorry for my long post but that's JMHO.
 
Sorry for my long post but that's JMHO.

Please don't say sorry, that was a really good post! Sums things up perfectly, and covers all the things I feel about this case! So thanks again!
 
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