Armchair Psych Profile and JH's Background

[gitana1]

I know firsthand how little can be done, when and how. (Daughter MI)
But this is what I read:
“Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team” in “the first 10 days” of June
That would have been 7 weeks before the shooting. Why did Fenton not rush this? Why did Fenton not see the urgency...
The signs would have been there IMO if he was that “F”d up by July 20th.
JMHO

I need to clarify something:

The psychiatrist treating accused Aurora theater gunman [REDACTED] was so concerned about his behavior that she notified other members of the University of Colorado Behavioral Evaluation and Threat Assessment, or BETA, team that he could potentially be a danger to others, sources with knowledge of the investigation told CALL7 Investigators.Those concerns surfaced in early June -- almost six weeks before the shooting, sources told CALL7 Investigator John Ferrugia.

“Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team” in “the first 10 days” of June but it “never came together” because in the period Fenton was having conversations with team members, [THE SHOOTER] began the process of dropping out of school, a source said.

In a news conference last week, CU Anschutz Medical Campus Graduate School Dean Barry Shur said [THE SHOOTER] dropped out of the CU Ph.D Neuroscience program on June 10th. "My understanding he has not been back on campus where the program is since that time," he said last week.Holmes lost his access to secure areas of the school June 12, according to the CU spokeswoman.

Sources said when Holmes withdrew, the BETA team “had no control over him."

Redacted and edited and bolded by me.

Fenton had concerns in the early days of June and the murderer dropped out on June 10, 2012. So it was not 7 weeks that the BETA team did nothing. Sometime in the first ten days of June, they were contacted. on June 10, the shooter dropped out. There was nothing more they could do after that.

 

[CARIIS]

Hey I am learning the lingo OT ! But Luka deal today check it out he is doing a lot of stuff with confidentiality in his case!

 

[gitana1]

I know every time I post I get reemed out but I'll do it anyway.

A college is not a country, city, or town. There is no jail. There is no psychiatric unit. It is a place where people pay tons of money to learn and research. People go to a college or university to better their lives, and the college or university strives to help students obtain those goals. Students go to school and drop out of school every day. Why is this different. Because he changed his hair color?

Should colleges and universities start monitoring every students day to day activities? Monitor emails, tweeter, facebook just in case something is going on?

True, he saw a psychiatrist at the university and was brought to the attention of a BETA team. But, what happens when he says he drops out? Do they mount their horses and warn the neighbors?

It isn't as easy as everyone thinks to have an adult committed. You don't just call the cops. For a mental health professional to have someone committed, you have to fill out a form at the court house. The court house forwards that form to a judge. The judge ultimately decides if someone should be confined against their will. It is not as easy as calling 911 and saying he is a threat. Maybe she tried to commit him and a judge said no. We don't know.

Well, according to a couple of popular radio news talk guys in my neck of the woods, the school should have hired a private detective to follow him around!!

 

[shadowraiths]

Curious to know if anyone is aware of when Holmes requested a lawyer?

From my read, he asked for a lawyer immediately aftere he was arrested ( link )

James E. Holmes, a 24-year-old former grad student who police identified as the shooter, told police he was acting alone and tipped them to the bobby trapped explosives in his Aurora apartment. But he then asked for a lawyer and stopped cooperating.​

 

[CARIIS]

To me, it seems possible there's only one friend site so far. Selective posting puts him in control of our perceptions of him. What he put out there could be a red herring as in red hairing. It could've been to intentionally play with people's minds. He knew he was going to prison and he knew his acts would bring him fame. I'm just saying, maybe, maybe he's devious like that.

I wonder tho - just like the notebook - was the prison comment on the sex site - a cry for help - he knew he was sliding out of control and so afraid that he was gonna do something horrible (sedative in car on drive over?)

 

[Roxye]

So can you tell me what that means? He didn't fill out a form so he is still a student there? Come on now.

And even if that meant he was still officially a student of the school, I ask, once again, what could or should the school have done? They cannot force him to be assessed. They can tell him he is going to be expelled if he refuses to be assessed but he took care of that by telling them he was dropping out. They can't notify the authorities unless he made a direct threat.

Clearly, he was not going to play by their rules. They have no power to force him to be assessed or diagnosed - no power. Nothing. Once more, the only thing they can do is say he can't come back to class without an assessment. Well, he left. That's it. Their limited authority over this student is ended.

Well, according to a couple of popular radio news talk guys in my neck of the woods, the school should have hired a private detective to follow him around!!

But why would they do that, at their own expense? He was no longer a student, correct? Not filling out the forms completely, despite their telling him he needed to, 'tied their hands'. He made no DIRECT threat YET. What where they suppose to do?

They can't call Mom and Dad. He was over 17. They can't call the police yet, because there has yet to be a direct threat. Even if he said to Fenton, "I am angry and I want others to pay." That is NOT a direct threat!

She thought he was a threat and did what she could. It is sad that the stop gaps we have now didn't alert others to the danger this man is/was. But it is no fault of those around him. IMO I think he was smart enough NOT to make DIRECT threats.

That is what it comes down to. Direct threats. As of yet, we haven't heard that he did that.

 

[February]

Who says he wasn't a student when she contacted the BETA team? I'm confused. She contacted them before he said he was dropping out, according to reports but once he dropped out, their efforts to assess his threat ended. That makes sense to me because any power they had ended when he left the school. The only thing they could do is to drop him if he refused to play ball, unless he made a direct threat.

Fenton called the BETA TEAM about JH . This lead me to understand that JH still a student at that time at UC because the BETA Team and Fenton should only be responsible for students at that University. BETA Team decided not to pursue JH because he is dropping out so where this go back? To Fenton , as a licensed psychiatrist, she has a duty to warn if JH is exhibiting some behavior that could result to an injury to others.

 

[February]

Well, according to a couple of popular radio news talk guys in my neck of the woods, the school should have hired a private detective to follow him around!!

That's funny...lol..

 

[danzn16]

Psychiatrist called BETA members together in beginning of June, 6 weeks before shootings. However nothing was done as this was when JH was dropping out of school. Said nothing could be done when he was no longer a student.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31324092/detail.html?hpt=hp_t2

Not sure if this has been posted yet. Haven't had a chance to catch up yet today.

 

[February]

If the school knew of any direct threat, and did nothing, they will be liable. And they should be. Otherwise, their hands were tied.

I Totally agree with you on this.

 

[CARIIS]

Well, I don't know if I'd stereotype all residents in a student complex. Especially nowadays. I gave it a little extra cred because the article referred to 'they' as if the reporter had spoken to multiple people from that apartment.

I used to live in a student complex in a college town and I know the guys across the way, one floor up, probably had a bird's eye view of my apartment. I know they didn't have curtains in theirs. And, I saw them there, regularly. Didn't sit and watch but I could've told a reporter I'd seen a couple guys there that had lights on at night. Glad I moved out of there. Danny Rolling ended up killing his final two victims, Tracey Paules and Daniel Toboada, in that apartment complex! I would've freaked had I still been living there.

Were you in that apt complex? ugh I remember the day that broke ugh chills..........

 

[February]

I think that the person, a psychiatrist none the less, who wrote the university's rules on that assessment who found something so troubling about Holmes that she brought it to the attention of the team would see his dropping out as a huge red flag. If she was in fact treating him in a doctor-patient capacity wouldn't she be ethically, morally and potentially legally compelled to have an intervention of some sort with Holmes?

If he was a threat of such a nature that he was displaying manic behavior like dropping out in addition to her fears he was a threat, as his psychiatrist shouldn't she at least have him committed on a 72 hour psych evacuation hold?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S II

That's is another side, Fenton wrote the policy of the BETA Team , so she should know better IMO

 

[shadowraiths]

UCDenver
The Legal Issue, Summer 2007, Volume 1, Issue 4 ( PDF )
Beyond Privacy: FERPA Exceptions and Communication Within the University Regarding Student Conduct

Recent events at higher education institutions throughout the country, including the tragic events at Virginia Tech, have raised many questions regarding how information is shared within higher education institutions regarding students, and how common misperceptions regarding legal limitations on the disclosure of information can create harmful institutional inertia. Appropriately, many higher education institutions place considerable emphasis on respecting student’s privacy and protecting their personal information. The federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (“FERPA”) provides significant legal protections for students, and generally requires a student’s consent to disclose information within a student’s educational record. However, FERPA includes some important, and often times overlooked, exceptions that provide higher educational institutions with opportunities to share and disclose information within the institution that may assist the institution in protecting its students and employees.​

Also see BETA team power point presentation on classroom disruption ( PPT )

 

[February]

UCDenver
The Legal Issue, Summer 2007, Volume 1, Issue 4 ( PDF )
Beyond Privacy: FERPA Exceptions and Communication Within the University Regarding Student Conduct

Recent events at higher education institutions throughout the country, including the tragic events at Virginia Tech, have raised many questions regarding how information is shared within higher education institutions regarding students, and how common misperceptions regarding legal limitations on the disclosure of information can create harmful institutional inertia. Appropriately, many higher education institutions place considerable emphasis on respecting student’s privacy and protecting their personal information. The federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (“FERPA&#8221 provides significant legal protections for students, and generally requires a student’s consent to disclose information within a student’s educational record. However, FERPA includes some important, and often times overlooked, exceptions that provide higher educational institutions with opportunities to share and disclose information within the institution that may assist the institution in protecting its students and employees.​

Also see BETA team power point presentation on classroom disruption ( PPT )

I assume that the Campus Police and the BETA Team is separate right?
Wonder if Fenton also reported this to Campus Police? ( at least reporting - not asking if they do anything at this point )

 

[CARIIS]

That is clearly not accurate. Nothing in the law says that a crime can only be called premeditated if the suspect acted alone.

There is a huge diff between premediation and being activily delusionial --north pole south pole!

 

[Padua]

UCDenver
The Legal Issue, Summer 2007, Volume 1, Issue 4 ( PDF )
Beyond Privacy: FERPA Exceptions and Communication Within the University Regarding Student Conduct

Recent events at higher education institutions throughout the country, including the tragic events at Virginia Tech, have raised many questions regarding how information is shared within higher education institutions regarding students, and how common misperceptions regarding legal limitations on the disclosure of information can create harmful institutional inertia. Appropriately, many higher education institutions place considerable emphasis on respecting student’s privacy and protecting their personal information. The federal Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (“FERPA”) provides significant legal protections for students, and generally requires a student’s consent to disclose information within a student’s educational record. However, FERPA includes some important, and often times overlooked, exceptions that provide higher educational institutions with opportunities to share and disclose information within the institution that may assist the institution in protecting its students and employees.​

Also see BETA team power point presentation on classroom disruption ( PPT )

Wow! Nice find. Looks like a basic crisis intervention power point training. I'm thinking you posted it because of the food for thought page. Maybe Holmes was part of the BETA team.

 

[February]

The psychiatrist treating the accused Colorado movie theater gunman was so concerned about his behavior that she mentioned it to her colleagues, saying he could potentially be a danger to others, CNN affiliate KMGH reported Wednesday, citing sources with knowledge of the investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/01/justice/colorado-theater-shooting-psychiatrist/index.html

 

[Padua]

From the powerpoint presentation from shadowraiths:


Some concerns in the classroom do not necessarily fit into this code and may need to be evaluated in more than one context
One common example of this is in creative expression that may touch on disturbing or violent subject matter
How are expectations about what is acceptable and limitations about such expression communicated to students?
Is there a policy or statement in the syllabus?

 

[February]

The university did confirm that Fenton was a member of a campus Behavior Evaluation and Threat Assessment team, composed of faculty and staff, including campus police.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/ap/crime/public-court-record-on-colo-shooting-altered/nP778/

campus police part of the BETA Team...

 

[zvzvzv]

off-topic outside the average/
this is a neat music video,
not related to details at all but
psychologically interesting.
[video=youtube;pUQJ2KEONr8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUQJ2KEONr8[/video]