Sidebar Discussion #11

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My best friend's mother died this morning at the age of 90 and 3/4 It was not an easy death from any known cause, just old age and the body refusing to go on. It was a blessing for her to finally be out of pain and at peace. Caylee Marie never made it to age 3 and had at least 87 more years to live.

With that perspective, I've read A News Junkie's and Logical Girl's posts. My heart goes out to you both and to all who post here at the side bar.

It's been well over four years since Caylee met her early death at the hands of her own mother and there's nothng we can do to rectify the total lack of justice for this unfathomable act. We continue to grieve.

At this point, we are stuck in our grief, striking out at those who profited from this precious angel's death. We try to understand how her parents separately and together dealt with the whole situation.

All we end up doing is rehashing old theories and beliefs. It's all to no avail. Whatever they did, is over. We can't change a single thing.

What we can do, is focus on the Kharma that is now in motion and track what happens to the actors in the case.

Jeff Ashton just was elected State's Attorney.
Jose's door stop is, at the moment, #15,992 in books
Casey still hasn't gotten a job, a GED, or anything to make her life worth living
There's a hearing to find out how much of Dr. Phil's $$ made it to Casey's pocket

I recall all the debates in the lead-up to the trial and all the discussion during and after. Please, let's not re-hash it all. Can we all find some new, more positive direction?

I appreciate your thoughts on this. But, while some people have moved on, others have not.

Should we have two threads? One for those over it and expanding their inner self?
One for those stuck in the past, still baffled as to what in God's name happened to let this murderer (IMHO) walk free?

That way, those who don't want to rehash the past won't have to. Those that do, will. But if that is done, we should lock all the threads with the information that gets referred to and bumped up - such as the computer forensics thread, or the cell phone ping thread. Because IMO - what is that about but rehashing? Is that moving on in a positive way? IDK

I seriously don't have any hard feeling towards anyone here. To each his/her own. But I haven't moved past the "WTF just happened here" feeling about this trial. It happens when I read and discuss. So maybe I shouldn't do that. But I will certainly look in to see if maybe, just MAYBE Karma is nipping at Casey's heels. I can only hope and pray.

You know, people to this day still rehash the JonBenet Ramsay case. Look at Trisha's latest radio guest........
 
I am watching Dr Phil. Yeah I know BOO, but there was a commercial plugging the new season coming soon. Whose picture did they flash but none other than MS Anthony's. I believe it said (things the world did not know about) not sure because the commercial took me by surprise. Maybe they will put the commercial on again before the show is over. I am wondering what this is about. A general discussion maybe, GA and CA on again...someone close to the investigation or KC herself?

BBM - sounds like the pitch that JB has been using. Probably another attempt at selling his book. No thanks.
 
Not being snarky but why does everyone think it was innappropriate for GA to congratulate Ashton in person? I think it was great! What a stab in the back to JB and CA.

GA doesn't do anything without CA's approval.
They have been out of the limelight and this was a perfect opportunity for them to get their name in print and a face in front of the camera.....I don't think CA would have been too welcome...so it was a smart move to send GA in..until or if he ever comes out and tells the truth I will still have extreme disgust for him as a man, a father, a grandfather and a human being.... even if he told the truth I might not change my feelings towards him. He had a chance to do what was right, and that was tell the truth....he didn't. He did not deny the supposed sexual abuse of KC and IMO that did not go un-noticed by the jury. He worked with the defense. JMO of course
 
Amazon Best Sellers Rank:
#8,834 in Books


ETA:

Novelrank
Amazom.com
August Sales: 75
July Sales: 517
Current Rank: 9,828
 
Glad everyone is enjoying their little vacations. Hurry back when you are rested and refreshed. I took a day off after I first heard GA showed up at Jeff Ashton's victory party.

At first, it was speculated that JA may have been counseling GA for a period of time, and/or they were close or have remained close.

At first, it was speculated that GA may have left Cindy because he didn't have his wedding ring on.

After seeing Jeff Ashton's response the next day, both of the above can't be true. Jeff Ashton was SURPRISED that GA was at his victory party. Jeff Ashton remarked he hasn't had contact with GA in a long time. Furthermore, Jeff Ashton told GA to give his regards to CA, and GA said that he would. NOW, this is not word for word, but you get the idea.

There were camera's, there was an Anthony. Somehow, GA knew exactly where the victory party was going to be held. He waited, got his clothes pressed and ready, and invaded a party that he was not invited too. I would bet a ton of money (if I had some), GA never contributed one dime to Ashton's campaign. Prior to Jeff's victory, GA never said one word in support of the election of Jeff Ashton.

I always believe people can change, but one has to
SEE some type of change, in order to have a little faith in a person. I have none. PROVE IT!! Actions speak louder than words.

Seems like nothing has changed in all these years, no justice for Caylee and all about the Ant's. :banghead:

And once again, NOTHING IS ABOUT CAYLEE!! Never has been, never will be.

ETA: GA is not controlled by CA. He is a grown man who has made his own choices. One can't MAKE someone say something or do something. As much as I loathe CA, she is not, and has never been to blame for GA's inactions.


BBM:

:goodpost: And I totally agree !

:moo:
 
I've been thinking about this morning and wondering how it quickly went so sideways and I apologize for hurting your feeling. Yes, I was also an abandoned child - that was the beginning...

No where in my posts did I ask you or anyone to forgive, forget, not hold the Anthony's responsible for their actions and I also didn't ask anyone to "understand" them. I simply stated that "understanding" the personalities behind their actions was something that I was seeking.

Again, my apologies to anyone here on the Caylee threads who felt I was attacking them. It may take me a few days to understand how asking for some simple decorum caused such a brush fire.

Logical,
The reason I got upset is because you have stated your forgiveness evolved belief system over and over and over again. The way in which you state it, is to reply to others showing their continued mistrust, frustration and anger at the players in the case.

You stated: "The question for me is not whether or not the Anthony's were on a reality show but whether or not we at Websleuths are."
Then when I asked why WS is on a reality show - You replied to me: "Not on - in! :floorlaugh:" THE Word you used was ON - but that reply felt mocking of me for not understanding your message. But ON or IN - this comment comes off as judgmental, IMHO.

Then in that same reply you said:
"What I was talking about was the way or manner this hatred of the Anthony's is expressed. If we are criticizing someone like CA, or GA, the fact that we are "right" doesn't mean we have to sink the the level of the Jerry Springer show to show our dislike or disapproval does it?"

This offends me as I don't think WS reads at all like the Jerry Springer show or the "level of the Jerry Springer show." Maybe I missed some posts that have been deleted but I have never seen anything close to the level of trashiness of that show.

You say above you have not asked anyone to forgive, forget, etc and you also said this in a reply to me:
"I'm not asking anyone to show sympathy or forgiveness and I'm not scolding anyone - I'm asking if we could "lift the level" of our disapproval is all." Again, this feels scolding of those whom don't feel as you do and one of the things I ADORE about WS is that we can respectfully disagree in a non-judgmental fashion. I don't see anything wrong with our 'level of disapproval' by any of the members posting, so I am confused why you are telling us to up our game? I guess if the mods had come in and said, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all- and we continued to show our frustration, mistrust or anger then you would be right to guide us to conform to your comfort level or your evolved belief system.

The same standard doesn't apply to jose - and IMHO, you even encourage the display of discontent for him and others. I do too, as I want them exposed for the lies and trickery.


AZ posted "Any of us who have never made a choice of which we were later ashamed should keep on bashing him... "
This seems hypocritical to me as the same standard doesn't apply to others in the case (jose being the classic example) and this too feels like judging fellow posters for 'where they are' with GA and CA. I think bashing is against TOS and I am not seeing any moderators deleting posts and taking away drinks for bashing. So to those whom still want to vent frustration, this feels like scolding, especially coming from highly respected members.

I consider everyone here my 'friends' - yeah, feel like I know most of you guys and in real life we would be a hoot. But, in real life my friends don't scold me or judge me or reprimand me with "I feel" camouflaged statements. They don't tell me to "up my level" - etc.

I had been reading since GA showed up at JA's victory party and you shared your opinion over and over and over again and it felt stifling to me to speak my opinions of why he showed up. Heck, I was even just not thanking any posts for fear it would put me on a side. I doubt I was the only one sitting on my hands wanting to speak up but not wanting to rock the boat of posters that are so popular and liked. It felt as if anyone said, no I am not ready to give the benefit of doubt; or anything not 'give them grace-ish' then you replied to again state your highly evolved belief system. Those words have a way of making one feel inferior, not evolved. Those words make one feel intimidated to not want to post for fear of looking shallow. That is what I saw and was feeling reading your posts on GA so I posted to ask you to clarify and see if you realized that was how I was reading what you wrote.

I didn't see a lack of decorum so your asking for "simple decorum" was and is still baffling to me. Again, if a mod asks - I know not to question it. Then to say that me asking you about your post and expressing my feeling has "caused such a brush fire" is hurtful. I don't feel I started a brush fire.

I am not going to speak on this topic again. I hope that our friendship is strong enough to support the truth of what I felt. I am only responding out of respect for that friendship, and others, and only posting this here as you addressed it again after I said I was going on vacay. So, now I am going back on vacay and might just get lost at sea after all this.
 
Call me naive...
There is still room in my heart for forgiveness.
More importantly there is room for hope.
Hope the kharma train is headed down the tracks.
Miracles do happen everyday if we open our eyes to what surrounds us.
Maybe GA got some kahunas and will be turning his life around.
We are who we are by the decisions and mistakes we have made.
We are who we become by how we eventually right those wrongs, learn from our mistakes and hopefully become better persons.
Time and patience.
Both difficult in the here and now.
We are human, after all.
Keep hope that justice for Caylee is imminent, in whatever shape or form it may present itself.

Congrats to JA and to a long career in seeking justice!
jmo
 
So, now I am going back on vacay and might just get lost at sea after all this.

snipped tons for space -- no getting lost at sea for you, my lady. we've all spent all these years together through everything, dont let disagreements (especially about personal feelings for the anthonys of all people) push any one out of here....we all know each other better than that IMO...sometimes we all come off a bit wrong when it's only text <3
 
Logical,
The reason I got upset is because you have stated your forgiveness evolved belief system over and over and over again. The way in which you state it, is to reply to others showing their continued mistrust, frustration and anger at the players in the case.

You stated: "The question for me is not whether or not the Anthony's were on a reality show but whether or not we at Websleuths are."
Then when I asked why WS is on a reality show - You replied to me: "Not on - in! :floorlaugh:" THE Word you used was ON - but that reply felt mocking of me for not understanding your message. But ON or IN - this comment comes off as judgmental, IMHO.

Then in that same reply you said:
"What I was talking about was the way or manner this hatred of the Anthony's is expressed. If we are criticizing someone like CA, or GA, the fact that we are "right" doesn't mean we have to sink the the level of the Jerry Springer show to show our dislike or disapproval does it?"

This offends me as I don't think WS reads at all like the Jerry Springer show or the "level of the Jerry Springer show." Maybe I missed some posts that have been deleted but I have never seen anything close to the level of trashiness of that show.

You say above you have not asked anyone to forgive, forget, etc and you also said this in a reply to me:
"I'm not asking anyone to show sympathy or forgiveness and I'm not scolding anyone - I'm asking if we could "lift the level" of our disapproval is all." Again, this feels scolding of those whom don't feel as you do and one of the things I ADORE about WS is that we can respectfully disagree in a non-judgmental fashion. I don't see anything wrong with our 'level of disapproval' by any of the members posting, so I am confused why you are telling us to up our game? I guess if the mods had come in and said, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all- and we continued to show our frustration, mistrust or anger then you would be right to guide us to conform to your comfort level or your evolved belief system.

The same standard doesn't apply to jose - and IMHO, you even encourage the display of discontent for him and others. I do too, as I want them exposed for the lies and trickery.


AZ posted "Any of us who have never made a choice of which we were later ashamed should keep on bashing him... "
This seems hypocritical to me as the same standard doesn't apply to others in the case (jose being the classic example) and this too feels like judging fellow posters for 'where they are' with GA and CA. I think bashing is against TOS and I am not seeing any moderators deleting posts and taking away drinks for bashing. So to those whom still want to vent frustration, this feels like scolding, especially coming from highly respected members.

I consider everyone here my 'friends' - yeah, feel like I know most of you guys and in real life we would be a hoot. But, in real life my friends don't scold me or judge me or reprimand me with "I feel" camouflaged statements. They don't tell me to "up my level" - etc.

I had been reading since GA showed up at JA's victory party and you shared your opinion over and over and over again and it felt stifling to me to speak my opinions of why he showed up. Heck, I was even just not thanking any posts for fear it would put me on a side. I doubt I was the only one sitting on my hands wanting to speak up but not wanting to rock the boat of posters that are so popular and liked. It felt as if anyone said, no I am not ready to give the benefit of doubt; or anything not 'give them grace-ish' then you replied to again state your highly evolved belief system. Those words have a way of making one feel inferior, not evolved. Those words make one feel intimidated to not want to post for fear of looking shallow. That is what I saw and was feeling reading your posts on GA so I posted to ask you to clarify and see if you realized that was how I was reading what you wrote.

I didn't see a lack of decorum so your asking for "simple decorum" was and is still baffling to me. Again, if a mod asks - I know not to question it. Then to say that me asking you about your post and expressing my feeling has "caused such a brush fire" is hurtful. I don't feel I started a brush fire.

I am not going to speak on this topic again. I hope that our friendship is strong enough to support the truth of what I felt. I am only responding out of respect for that friendship, and others, and only posting this here as you addressed it again after I said I was going on vacay. So, now I am going back on vacay and might just get lost at sea after all this.
Speaking of vacay (lol), I actually will be going away soon and have wondered how I will get by without "seeing" all my sidebar friends. :(
I hope it's not too difficult a withdrawal.

oxoxoxox
 
I appreciate your thoughts on this. But, while some people have moved on, others have not.

Should we have two threads? One for those over it and expanding their inner self?
One for those stuck in the past, still baffled as to what in God's name happened to let this murderer (IMHO) walk free?


That way, those who don't want to rehash the past won't have to. Those that do, will. But if that is done, we should lock all the threads with the information that gets referred to and bumped up - such as the computer forensics thread, or the cell phone ping thread. Because IMO - what is that about but rehashing? Is that moving on in a positive way? IDK

I seriously don't have any hard feeling towards anyone here. To each his/her own. But I haven't moved past the "WTF just happened here" feeling about this trial. It happens when I read and discuss. So maybe I shouldn't do that. But I will certainly look in to see if maybe, just MAYBE Karma is nipping at Casey's heels. I can only hope and pray.

You know, people to this day still rehash the JonBenet Ramsay case. Look at Trisha's latest radio guest........

BBM I would be on both . Some days are better than others.
 
To believe that anything George or Cindy said or did not say at trial helped free FCA means a belief in the P-12 that I absolutely do not share. Those 12 folks were incapable of reasoning through what was presented to them and indifferent to the responsibility of what was being asked of them. IMO, the only evidence George or Cindy could have presented them that would have sunk in was for one or the other of them to say they had witnessed the murder.

As for bashing George, still. My objection to that is not just because I think it is misplaced- just MO, and a stand alone opinion at that, but second, because bashing George feeds and supports Jose and FCA. I'm positive that FCA DELIGHTS in reading posts in this forum and elsewhere that slam her father. To have total strangers echoing her worst feelings about him! Imagine! What sweet revenge for her. Personally, I'd never give her that satisfaction, even if bashing George was all I wanted to do in life.

Last. I am not one of the seemingly revered old-timer posters here. I've always posted here fairly infrequently, though have read far more than I've posted, and for many months haven't stopped by at all.

Maybe, just maybe, having those distances of many kinds from the site can provide a different perspective, whatever its merit.

When I first visited WS, I chose it over any other site discussing Caylee and the trial because of the great analysis I consistently found here, and for the high quality of discussions. I stayed reading here and posting for the same reasons.

Returning in recent days, though, I see very little of what was so compelling in the past. Rather, more than not, posts seem to be reduced to strong personal expressions of contempt, disgust, even hatred towards George, and a relentless mocking of Jose's "book" sales.

<modsnip>

If there is any interest, however, in engaging a broader readership, perhaps hiking back up to higher ground would serve the site well. Just my highly opinionated opinion.

--Hope
 
Speaking of vacay (lol), I actually will be going away soon and have wondered how I will get by without "seeing" all my sidebar friends. :(
I hope it's not too difficult a withdrawal.

oxoxoxox

Withdrawal ....relapse.......chronic user............withdrawal............relapse.... :seeya:
 
Logical,
The reason I got upset is because you have stated your forgiveness evolved belief system over and over and over again. The way in which you state it, is to reply to others showing their continued mistrust, frustration and anger at the players in the case.

You stated: "The question for me is not whether or not the Anthony's were on a reality show but whether or not we at Websleuths are."
Then when I asked why WS is on a reality show - You replied to me: "Not on - in! :floorlaugh:" THE Word you used was ON - but that reply felt mocking of me for not understanding your message. But ON or IN - this comment comes off as judgmental, IMHO.

Then in that same reply you said:
"What I was talking about was the way or manner this hatred of the Anthony's is expressed. If we are criticizing someone like CA, or GA, the fact that we are "right" doesn't mean we have to sink the the level of the Jerry Springer show to show our dislike or disapproval does it?"

This offends me as I don't think WS reads at all like the Jerry Springer show or the "level of the Jerry Springer show." Maybe I missed some posts that have been deleted but I have never seen anything close to the level of trashiness of that show.

You say above you have not asked anyone to forgive, forget, etc and you also said this in a reply to me:
"I'm not asking anyone to show sympathy or forgiveness and I'm not scolding anyone - I'm asking if we could "lift the level" of our disapproval is all." Again, this feels scolding of those whom don't feel as you do and one of the things I ADORE about WS is that we can respectfully disagree in a non-judgmental fashion. I don't see anything wrong with our 'level of disapproval' by any of the members posting, so I am confused why you are telling us to up our game? I guess if the mods had come in and said, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all- and we continued to show our frustration, mistrust or anger then you would be right to guide us to conform to your comfort level or your evolved belief system.

The same standard doesn't apply to jose - and IMHO, you even encourage the display of discontent for him and others. I do too, as I want them exposed for the lies and trickery.


AZ posted "Any of us who have never made a choice of which we were later ashamed should keep on bashing him... "
This seems hypocritical to me as the same standard doesn't apply to others in the case (jose being the classic example) and this too feels like judging fellow posters for 'where they are' with GA and CA. I think bashing is against TOS and I am not seeing any moderators deleting posts and taking away drinks for bashing. So to those whom still want to vent frustration, this feels like scolding, especially coming from highly respected members.

I consider everyone here my 'friends' - yeah, feel like I know most of you guys and in real life we would be a hoot. But, in real life my friends don't scold me or judge me or reprimand me with "I feel" camouflaged statements. They don't tell me to "up my level" - etc.

I had been reading since GA showed up at JA's victory party and you shared your opinion over and over and over again and it felt stifling to me to speak my opinions of why he showed up. Heck, I was even just not thanking any posts for fear it would put me on a side. I doubt I was the only one sitting on my hands wanting to speak up but not wanting to rock the boat of posters that are so popular and liked. It felt as if anyone said, no I am not ready to give the benefit of doubt; or anything not 'give them grace-ish' then you replied to again state your highly evolved belief system. Those words have a way of making one feel inferior, not evolved. Those words make one feel intimidated to not want to post for fear of looking shallow. That is what I saw and was feeling reading your posts on GA so I posted to ask you to clarify and see if you realized that was how I was reading what you wrote.

I didn't see a lack of decorum so your asking for "simple decorum" was and is still baffling to me. Again, if a mod asks - I know not to question it. Then to say that me asking you about your post and expressing my feeling has "caused such a brush fire" is hurtful. I don't feel I started a brush fire.

I am not going to speak on this topic again. I hope that our friendship is strong enough to support the truth of what I felt. I am only responding out of respect for that friendship, and others, and only posting this here as you addressed it again after I said I was going on vacay. So, now I am going back on vacay and might just get lost at sea after all this.

I love you both !

I've tried to stay away but since checking back in i can say Cindy and George still confuse me, I still believe JB is slimy and Casey got away with torture and murder of a beautiful 2 year old.
I also got so turned off by the Dr. Phil interview ,I don't watch his show anymore ,and I was a regular viewer.

I have friends who's 10 year old daughter is struggling to live every day. She was enrolled in Hospice today .These are some of the nicest,funniest dearest people on Earth. This Kharma thing has me confused
 
snipped tons for space -- no getting lost at sea for you, my lady. we've all spent all these years together through everything, dont let disagreements (especially about personal feelings for the anthonys of all people) push any one out of here....we all know each other better than that IMO...sometimes we all come off a bit wrong when it's only text <3

2goldfich excellent point! I have learned this well in my personal life. It is so easy to hear a different tone in text vs verbal. Happy week-end to all!
 
And for me, can I add THEY HAVE NEVER TAKEN RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT THEY DID. Just as JB is not taking responsibility for the lies in the book. They (JB, KC, GA, CA) are none coming out in a sincere and genuine way that fosters forgiveness and additional empathy.

This is where I stand ,also. They are all still living the lie and Caylee is still the one discarded both physically and figuratively. They don't deserve a bit of respect or forgiveness ,IMO.
If I see anything with them on it ,be it a commercial for an upcoming show or book ,or JB as some sort of "expert" ,I turn the station immediately .But this is just me and the way I am. I don't expect others to think like me.


I may have moved on but my opinions haven't changed a bit.
I lost a lot of faith in our justice system after the Anthony trial. The Drew Peterson trial is about to claim any faith I had left. God help us ,all.
 
With their pithy answers and deliberate non-truth telling answers, one could reasonably argue they were angry to be brought into a railroading of their precious CMA for a crime they felt she didn't commit.
I still, for the life of me, don't know what Lee's waterworks were all about...except that perhaps it was designed to make the whole family look as dysfunctional as Baez claimed. It was so over-the-top absurd, I honestly believed that no one would/could take him seriously, but obviously it further confirmed to the P12 that Casey's actions were somewhat normal under the circumstances. OMG!
 
It's back into a 5 digit freefall...

Last Sale: 4 hours

August Sales: 76
July Sales: 517
Current Rank: 10,226
 
Oh my goodness!


That S-woman on Amazon just cited wikipedia as her source. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
Well I am a fully paid up card-carrying despiser of all things Anthony and I make no apology for my views. The Anthony family earned everyone's contempt, by doing one disgusting thing after another.
Just when you think maybe they will have the decency to keep their mouths shut and stay out of the public eye for a while, here comes George, to
make some phony statement about Ashton. If he was such a fan of Jeff why didn't he speak up with the truth about Casey? An email of congratulations would have done the same thing but GA has to get on camera, just like the old days on Hopespring Drive. Does anyone CARE what GA thinks of Jeff Ashton?
It's not enough for them to cause mayhem for 3 years, then they resurface to claim $600K for their efforts. What in particular have they - GA or CA-
done to earn any respect, compassion?
I'm sure that most people have done something, made a decision that hurt someone else in their lives, that they were later ashamed of- but that is a far cry from the betrayal and lies of the Anthonys. I can't imagine trying to sleep at night if I had betrayed my grandchild they way they both did. I couldn't care less if he has lied all his life to Cindy, they deserve each other- I do care about his cowardice and the deliberate injustice to Caylee he is partly responsible for.
Moving on- closure - getting over it- all sound like pop psychological terms to me. The best we can do is adapt to what can't be changed , the thought that it's time to "get over it" is a ridiculous proposition IMO.
 
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