NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[GoingByMyGut]

Breaker - Breaker - II of III (sorry for typos - i am ill today)

Description of Relationship.
So we know they had been together for between 18 months and 24 months. They both attened the same high school. Based upon age - it appears this relationship formed when they were sophomores or Juniors in college. Not much in the way of details into this relationship - Sylvia was very private, but there were no big blow-ups or events of note. It was a seemingly quiet pair - from what any observers could gain

Hello all :seeya:
Bezam made me aware of this thread. Dushi, is this the case you were referring to in the SM thread when you said you filed a FOIA request and hit a wall because she could still be alive?

Anyway, I too am here bc of the void created by the winding down of the SM case .... however, in between trying to stay on top of this thread, I am also going to read some of the WS "teaching" threads and some of the really old "missing" cases. After mentioning the still unsolved case of my grandfather to all of you on the SM thread, I wondered (1) whether it might be fruitful to start a thread for him here (1929 is a long time ago), and (2) whether, 20-30 years after our first FOIA request for him, whether a new request would have as many redactions.

Thanks for the welcome, Dushi :tyou:

Re SL, I noticed a conflict with the part BBM above. The engagement notice said SL went to Tottenville HS and that her BF/F went to Port Richmond High. One of these sources of information must be incorrect? I was thinking we might be able to verify this via Classmates.com. Also, if the engagement announcement is right, Odyssey may be able to tell us something about the relationship between the high schools (proximity to each other, shared social events if they're in the same district, etc.). I think Sylvia would be class of 1970?

Like Rosemadderlake, I am a few years younger than SL would be today (I was class of 1974), and this is really bringing those years back. It was a different world then, esp. for girls/women.

 

[Saracen]

Missing voluntary and runaway seem very similar to me

You know............. wanted to disappear

yes but for 38yrs, without any posessions? IMO if that was the case she would have made plans, somewhere to live, bank account books ect, personal belongings, everyone has items that are precious to them..

 

[epiphany]

yes but for 38yrs, without any posessions? IMO if that was the case she would have made plans, somewhere to live, bank account books ect, personal belongings, everyone has items that are precious to them..

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment:

Wonder what the value of Sylvia's heart-shaped engagement ring was in 1975?

We have nothing other than rumor that an unidentified person eyeballed the ring in fiance's possession.

 

[Dushi]

Hello all :seeya:
Bezam made me aware of this thread. Dushi, is this the case you were referring to in the SM thread when you said you filed a FOIA request and hit a wall because she could still be alive?

Anyway, I too am here bc of the void created by the winding down of the SM case .... however, in between trying to stay on top of this thread, I am also going to read some of the WS "teaching" threads and some of the really old "missing" cases. After mentioning the still unsolved case of my grandfather to all of you on the SM thread, I wondered (1) whether it might be fruitful to start a thread for him here (1929 is a long time ago), and (2) whether, 20-30 years after our first FOIA request for him, whether a new request would have as many redactions.

Thanks for the welcome, Dushi :tyou:

Re SL, I noticed a conflict with the part BBM above. The engagement notice said SL went to Tottenville HS and that her BF/F went to Port Richmond High. One of these sources of information must be incorrect? I was thinking we might be able to verify this via Classmates.com. Also, if the engagement announcement is right, Odyssey may be able to tell us something about the relationship between the high schools (proximity to each other, shared social events if they're in the same district, etc.). I think Sylvia would be class of 1970?

Like Rosemadderlake, I am a few years younger than SL would be today (I was class of 1974), and this is really bringing those years back. It was a different world then, esp. for girls/women.

Welcome to the thread GBMG

I do think that you should start a thread about your Grandfather
Can it hurt?


I never filed anything, maybe skeet?

This one is quite different for me, not at all familiar with the location, also a few years younger (don't get to say that often)

Its the melding of minds that often bring resolution

Its not about agreeing, its about making each person think

Its about having debates that bring out one point that may mean something

Welcome again. i look forward to your thoughts on this very difficult case

 

[GoingByMyGut]

yes but for 38yrs, without any posessions? IMO if that was the case she would have made plans, somewhere to live, bank account books ect, personal belongings, everyone has items that are precious to them..

Hi, Saracen -- I wonder if I am really dating myself here ... there was a huge runaway culture in the 70s. Young people often left homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They hitchhiked or took buses to areas known to support these cultures ... in essence, the 70s were the 60s only better organized. Also, as someone said earlier, she had an education (biology and music) and a purse; re the latter, I wonder how much money was in it? Are there any extended family members who could have helped her get away and start fresh? If she eventually married, her trail could go cold with little effort on her part. Somehwhere -- I think the police report -- it said her SSN was "unknown" ... maybe she didn't even have one yet.

I "hear" a possible story that I know Gajonka doesn't support (Hi, Gajonka ), but I wonder about it: Could she have found herself thrown out of the house by her Dad on the same night her BF/F broke off their engagement? Ouch. Not a great state of mind to be in, but it could precipitate an impulsive decision.

At the same time, the "window" between the pickup and later stop at SL's family home is chilling. Some more facts would go a long way toward reigning in some of the possibilities.

 

[epiphany]

:star: Saracen!!!!!!!!!! :star:

bbm: So true! A diary might be in her night stand, but letters? Yes, I used to carry my correspondences in my purse, poems, note pad, a book, lip gloss, hairbrush, keys, no credit card, but most young women always had a little cash, dime for the telephone and bus/taxi fair at least.

Respectfully BBM

We don't know enough about who she really is: her temperament, her habits, her goals, her personality...what makes Sylvia, Sylvia.

The PR indicates she had a purse with her, yet: Carrying Money (paraphrasing): Unknown.

 

[epiphany]

Hi, Saracen -- I wonder if I am really dating myself here ... there was a huge runaway culture in the 70s. Young people often left homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They hitchhiked or took buses to areas known to support these cultures ... in essence, the 70s were the 60s only better organized. Also, as someone said earlier, she had an education (biology and music) and a purse; re the latter, I wonder how much money was in it? Are there any extended family members who could have helped her get away and start fresh? If she eventually married, her trail could go cold with little effort on her part. Somehwhere -- I think the police report -- it said her SSN was "unknown" ... maybe she didn't even have one yet.

I "hear" a possible story that I know Gajonka doesn't support (Hi, Gajonka ), but I wonder about it: Could she have found herself thrown out of the house by her Dad on the same night her BF/F broke off their engagement? Ouch. Not a great state of mind to be in, but it could precipitate an impulsive decision.

At the same time, the "window" between the pickup and later stop at SL's family home is chilling. Some more facts would go a long way toward reigning in some of the possibilities.

On PR report:

Nativity: Germany

Father is said to have been a career army man.

Where else had Sylvia traveled to by 22 yo?

Had she visited other states with GFs, with her fiancee?

Did she frequent Brooklyn with friends, or with her fiancee on the weekends?

Her fiancee attended NYU...How about Manhattan? Did she ride the subways in Manhattan and Brooklyn?

OTOH, many stayed in their own neighborhoods and boroughs and did not venture out. But many others did!

Who was Sylvia? How adventurous was she? Was she strong-willed, an independent thinker, gutsy...?

 

[epiphany]

I thought she looked very different in each of the 3 photos available.

3 different hair colors...not unusual, but am curious about the span of time between each of the photos.

 

[Odyssey]

One thing I find kind of odd (though unfortunately, it's not unheard of) is that even with all the old cases that LE didn't really pay attention to at the time, as the internet became more mainstream, usually posts would surface from family/friends saying "What ever happened to so-and-so?"

I haven't seen anything like that for Sylvia... we know she had a brother, and friends - high school and college classmates - i wonder if her friends knew where she was.

It always makes me sad when someone is missing for this long and it seems like nobody is looking for them.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Welcome to the thread GBMG

I do think that you should start a thread about your Grandfather
Can it hurt?


I never filed anything, maybe skeet?

This one is quite different for me, not at all familiar with the location, also a few years younger (don't get to say that often)

Its the melding of minds that often bring resolution

Its not about agreeing, its about making each person think

Its about having debates that bring out one point that may mean something

Welcome again. i look forward to your thoughts on this very difficult case

Re the parts BBM:

(1) Thanks so much, Dushi :blushing:

(2) Thanks for your support on the grandfather thread idea. I'm going to talk it up with my Dad and see what he thinks. He's taken a tough line with it all these years. One of the "stories" floating around the family was that his Dad might have just left, and I think that left him wounded. Even today, he says he's more interested in verifying the facts around his Dad's birth (he's big into our genealogy and a serious lack of info on his dad blocks a whole line) than in knowing how his Dad died. No judging here ... it's easy for me to want to know, but hard for him to let that snake out of the can.

(3) Maybe it was Skeet? I can go back and look. It was one the comments that started me talking about my GF so it shouldnt be too hard to find.

(4) You know, this is interesting ... I grew up in Metuchen, NJ, but knew several kids from SI. I think there was a period during the draft for the Vietnam War when the drinking age was lowered to 18, but I have a weak memory of the drinking age in NY being younger than NJ for a while and kids from NJ going to SI to drink. Not me -- seriously, I was super shy and a total dweeb. But I knew kids from SI who came here too. They came to a roller rink (okay, really dating myself now) in Perth Amboy that I went to sometimes.

Funny how close in age several of us here are

 

[GoingByMyGut]

On PR report:

Nativity: Germany

Father is said to have been a career army man.

Where else had Sylvia traveled to by 22 yo?

Had she visited other states with GFs, with her fiancee?

Did she frequent Brooklyn with friends, or with her fiancee on the weekends?

Her fiancee attended NYU...How about Manhattan? Did she ride the subways in Manhattan and Brooklyn?

OTOH, many stayed in their own neighborhoods and boroughs and did not venture out. But many others did!

Who was Sylvia? How adventurous was she? Was she strong-willed, an independent thinker, gutsy...?

Hi, epiphany,

When I looked up Wagner College, where SL attended, I saw it had a Manhattan address. Was there also an SI campus? I assumed she took the train into Manhattan from home to go to school. BTW, I think this fits with what you are saying in the 2nd part BBM -- going to a commuter school vs. going away to college, even though it's Manhattan v SI. One big happy city. I am guessing this is why her mother rode into Manhattan to see if SL had run off to see school friends when she was informed by the BF/F of her running off. She (SL) was familiar with a central transportation hub that she could have used to go anywhere in the country.

 

[Odyssey]

Hi, epiphany,

When I looked up Wagner College, where SL attended, I saw it had a Manhattan address. Was there also an SI campus? I assumed she took the train into Manhattan from home to go to school. BTW, I think this fits with what you are saying in the 2nd part BBM -- going to a commuter school vs. going away to college, even though it's Manhattan v SI. One big happy city. I am guessing this is why her mother rode into Manhattan to see if SL had run off to see school friends when she was informed by the BF/F of her running off. She (SL) was familiar with a central transportation hub that she could have used to go anywhere in the country.

A lot of Staten Island people went to college in Manhattan. The only college I can think of on Staten Island is the College of Staten Island but I'm not sure that college existed then. IIRC it is on the grounds where the Willowbrook State School (For the Criminally Insane) sat in 1974.

 

[Dushi]

Good night all

"The Night Owl" I am not


Night Rose!!!!

 

[epiphany]

Hi, epiphany,

When I looked up Wagner College, where SL attended, I saw it had a Manhattan address. Was there also an SI campus? I assumed she took the train into Manhattan from home to go to school. BTW, I think this fits with what you are saying in the 2nd part BBM -- going to a commuter school vs. going away to college, even though it's Manhattan v SI. One big happy city. I am guessing this is why her mother rode into Manhattan to see if SL had run off to see school friends when she was informed by the BF/F of her running off. She (SL) was familiar with a central transportation hub that she could have used to go anywhere in the country.

I had always associated Wagner College as located in Staten Island during that 1970s time period. Perhaps, campuses later in Manhattan.

snipped

With Wagner’s move to Staten Island came a new era in the history of the College. Wagner College became well-known for its liberal arts curriculum and, as a result, grew in enrollment. Construction of a new building began in 1929 to accommodate this growth, providing classroom space for these new students.

snipped

Wagner College is intimately connected to Grymes Hill, the community to which it belongs today, and its history is tied to that of the borough of Staten Island and the city of New York.

http://wagner.edu/about/history/

 

[epiphany]

Cannot travel by subway from Staten Island to Brooklyn, Manhattan, etc.

There are no subways in the borough of Staten Island.

 

[epiphany]

A lot of Staten Island people went to college in Manhattan. The only college I can think of on Staten Island is the College of Staten Island but I'm not sure that college existed then. IIRC it is on the grounds where the Willowbrook State School (For the Criminally Insane) sat in 1974.

Yes, the buildings on the hundreds of acres of the infamous warehouse known as Willowbrook State School (for individuals with intellectual disabilities, back then labelled mentally retarded) eventually became part of the College of SI (about early 90s).

O/T

I had the shock of my life walking around the floors of Willowbrook State School a short time prior to Geraldo Rivera's famous and shocking 1972 expose of Willowbrook, which helped push massive reforms in NYS in the way such individuals are to be treated in a humane society.

I will never, ever forget what I saw...even if I wanted to, it simply could never be erased from my memory.

(I have never lived on SI.)

 

[Jmoose]

Hi, Saracen -- I wonder if I am really dating myself here ... there was a huge runaway culture in the 70s. Young people often left homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They hitchhiked or took buses to areas known to support these cultures ... in essence, the 70s were the 60s only better organized. Also, as someone said earlier, she had an education (biology and music) and a purse; re the latter, I wonder how much money was in it? Are there any extended family members who could have helped her get away and start fresh? If she eventually married, her trail could go cold with little effort on her part. Somehwhere -- I think the police report -- it said her SSN was "unknown" ... maybe she didn't even have one yet.

I "hear" a possible story that I know Gajonka doesn't support (Hi, Gajonka ), but I wonder about it: Could she have found herself thrown out of the house by her Dad on the same night her BF/F broke off their engagement? Ouch. Not a great state of mind to be in, but it could precipitate an impulsive decision.

At the same time, the "window" between the pickup and later stop at SL's family home is chilling. Some more facts would go a long way toward reigning in some of the possibilities.

In those days, you typically didn't need a SS number until you got your first job-if you were a dependent of your parents for tax purposes, in those days they didn't need to provide IRS with your SS number on their tax return. That didn't come until after people claimed their racehorses and dogs (and presumably imaginary children) on their tax returns. I wonder if she ever worked in high school or college, and so had a social security number? I suppose it is possible her parents didn't know the number, but law enforcement should have been able to obtain it if they tried, right?

 

[Jmoose]

Re the parts BBM:


(4) You know, this is interesting ... I grew up in Metuchen, NJ, but knew several kids from SI. I think there was a period during the draft for the Vietnam War when the drinking age was lowered to 18, but I have a weak memory of the drinking age in NY being younger than NJ for a while and kids from NJ going to SI to drink. Not me -- seriously, I was super shy and a total dweeb. But I knew kids from SI who came here too. They came to a roller rink (okay, really dating myself now) in Perth Amboy that I went to sometimes.

Funny how close in age several of us here are

I, too, am in that age range (i was 55 years old last week)-NY and NJ both allowed drinking at the age of 18 for a while-think it stopped maybe around 1980 or so.
This should have been relatively easy for LE to figure out, if they were inclined to do so. It sounds like they considered this a case of "left voluntarily" and never looked at anything. Just the social security number alone-it is really impossible to function without one in a normal sense ( I know, it's possible to fly below the radar, but not optimally, and she is a college educated person who would likely want to have a bank acct, credit cards, and a house someday)

 

[Saracen]

Respectfully BBM

We don't know enough about who she really is: her temperament, her habits, her goals, her personality...what makes Sylvia, Sylvia.

The PR indicates she had a purse with her, yet: Carrying Money (paraphrasing): Unknown.

This is the bit that bugs me, I am just trying to picture them at the point she left the car, she had a handbag (on the floor between her feet?), they have this row, she throws her glasses on the dashboard?, takes her purse out of her handbag and leaves? why not take the handbag?? and moreso, what happened to the handbag? did the b/f get rid of it?...

 

[Saracen]

Hi, Saracen -- I wonder if I am really dating myself here ... there was a huge runaway culture in the 70s. Young people often left homes with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They hitchhiked or took buses to areas known to support these cultures ... in essence, the 70s were the 60s only better organized. Also, as someone said earlier, she had an education (biology and music) and a purse; re the latter, I wonder how much money was in it? Are there any extended family members who could have helped her get away and start fresh? If she eventually married, her trail could go cold with little effort on her part. Somehwhere -- I think the police report -- it said her SSN was "unknown" ... maybe she didn't even have one yet.

I "hear" a possible story that I know Gajonka doesn't support (Hi, Gajonka ), but I wonder about it: Could she have found herself thrown out of the house by her Dad on the same night her BF/F broke off their engagement? Ouch. Not a great state of mind to be in, but it could precipitate an impulsive decision.

At the same time, the "window" between the pickup and later stop at SL's family home is chilling. Some more facts would go a long way toward reigning in some of the possibilities.

Hi GBMG, some good points here, the reason for the argument,are what we are unsure of, there are thoughts that she was pregnant, could she have found out that he was messing around?, or could she have broken the news to him and he wanted her to have a abortion?, who knows, without anymore facts we are all supposing i guess..