Trial day 53: REBUTTAL; #162

[Tsunvirtual]

This is terrible, but I actually asked my mom the other day what she would do and how she would react if I were in a position such as JA (hypothetically!!). I was telling her how JA's mom was reacting in court and such. She said she would be there to support me, she wouldn't turn her back, but she would feel intense shame, and intense sympathy for the family of the victim. This isn't something I'm seeing from JA's supporters in the courtroom. Of course, I have no way of knowing if she/they have reached out to TA's family, but I'm assuming they haven't.

I told my kids individually so they were sure it wasn't meant for the other two...that should they ever do anything even close to this crime they needn't look for my support in the courtroom. I understand that maybe her family is there to save her life. My point with my kids is: you know it's wrong if you do it. So they can choose to stay out of trouble or choose not to have me there if they get in trouble. I absolutely would not sit there in support of a cold blooded murderer, even if it was my own child.

 

[GreenEyesBlue]

2024? wow

Trust me, 30 years goes by very fast for the family left devastated. Too fast.

 

[kaydono]

I see Jodi Grandmother is upset by what jodi did, I see it on her face. I have been thinking about the MOM's interview with Florez. Not once during this trial have we HEARD from IT's Friends who WERE SO WORRIED ABOUT JODI and her MENTAL issues That THEY HAVE COME FORWARD to tell what they were WORRIED ABOUT!!!! I THINK this was a LIE FROM JODI's MOM!!! I also found her tears in the INTERVIEW to be FAKE too!!!

Wow. I am gonna have to use this non trial days to look into that. That is the good thing about this forum. People can notice stuff, that others may overlook.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

As for Juror #8 being dismissed - Remember the 12 Angry Men?

http://plays.about.com/od/plays/a/twelveangry.htm

 

[ElleElle]

I agree with everything you're saying except, BBM~ even the throat slit was not fatal yet. Dr. Horn said that today too. He was nearly dead at that point, but probably convulsing, moaning on the way back to the shower.

The more I think about the gun, the less it bothers me that she used the knife first. Jodi put a lot of thought into this crime. FWIW, I'm one of the people who believes that she went there to give him one last chance to remember the good times. I think she apologized for whatever it was that Travis was angry about in his email to her, she promised she wouldn't do anything to embarrass him, had sex any way he wanted and then she asked for one last chance to make things work. He refused and she followed through with her plan.

Guns can be traced. She probably knew it would look suspicious that a .25 caliber weapon was taken from her grandparents and then the same size gun was used to kill Travis. Her first choice was to get him in a vulnerable position and then strike while blinded by a flash directly in his face. A gun that small would be easy to conceal in the waistband of her pants and she could get to it if the stab wound wasn't enough to incapacitate him. What she didn't count on was how messy it is when your victim is dying but still capable moving around. Stumbling to the sink and coughing up blood, crawling and leaving a trail, and possibly still capable of getting to a phone in the other room. So she stomped and stabbed him until was weak enough for her to deliver the fatal cut across the throat. That, however, made things worse. A huge amount of blood, he's still moving, and she has to get him back into the shower. In that horrific moment I think she panicked and used the gun as a last resort to finish him so that everything would stop.

Jodi is an evil person, but I don't think anyone can be prepared for that kind of carnage. It saddens me to think that line she attributed to Travis when she told the intruder story ("I can't feel my legs") was probably a detail from the actual crime. In the movies, the victim of a stabbing usually says something pithy (Et tu Brute?) and then collapses to the floor. Her victim didn't die quickly, and he was spreading evidence everywhere. The gunshot wasn't merciful, and it wasn't a symbolic coup de grace, it was just expedient.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

By the time Manson approached the age at which the Tate-LaBianca murders occurred, he had spent a good half of his life institutionalized. Personality disorder (incl. psychopathy) aside, he was utterly unsocialized and not fit to live among people. And he knew this. He asked NOT to be released, told administrators he'd be recidivist.

Contrary to popular belief, he did kill. He was not present during the Tate murders (in which Stephen Parent, Sharon Tate, Abigail Folger, Wojciech Frykowski and Jay Sebring were killed), but did accompany his minions to the LaBianca's house, and participated in tying up Rosemary and Leno LaBianca. He left before the actual murders.

(Apropos of nothing, except perhaps to demonstrate his psychopathy, he passed a polygraph regarding his involvement in either the Tate or LaBianca murders.)

Prior to his "Helter Skelter" attempts, though---which purportedly were intended to trigger race riots (but really involved an element of pure revenge; Tate and her husband Roman Polanski were renting the home of musician/record producerTerry Melcher, who Manson believed kept him from a successful music career. Manson had musical aspirations, and was introduced to Melcher by Beach Boy Dennis Wilson. The house on Cielo Drive was chosen because it belonged to the man who'd rebuffed Manson, and the inflammatory messages in blood were, IMO, an afterthought)---Manson directed (and participated in, to varying degrees) the murders of Donald (Shorty) Shea and Gary Hinman (whose ear he slashed off). He and Tex Watson and Clem Grogan were convicted of Shea's murder; Bobby Beausoleil and Tate-LaBianca murderess Susan Atkins were convicted for Hinman's murder.

It is believed he is responsible for the deaths of others---both by direction of others and personally; the era was one of many lost souls, and he could sense vulnerability in the many disenfranchised youth who headed West. Many left their families, and many did not return. Some became his "Family." But others...?

He was a mastermind of manipulation. But he has as much blood on his hands as his acolytes.

You forgot Ronald Hughes whose body was found the day the sentences came down.
James Willett had to dig his own grave and was found months later, and his wife's body was found buried in the basement of a house where family members were living.
John Haught who played Russian roulette with a loaded gun.

There were some murders during the Mason years that many think they were good for them. Joe Pugh ,Sandy Good's husband committed suicide in England by cutting his slitting his throat and wrists twice, and there were writings on the mirror.
Barbara Davis almost died when someone laced her hamburger with acid when she was going to talk to LE.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Yes, I think you provide some very logical solutions to find out more about these phones. I too became a bit confused with the last phone and the one Gus had given her.

Same here. Good questions.

Why was Gus giving her phones anyway? Who was paying the bill? Was this a PPL phone or a phone for personal use?

My mind always goes into the gutter when I think of Gus and Jodi. I don't want to get in trouble again here and get a t/o...but heebs. That relationship gives me the heebs! Something weird there.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Same here, Dewey! When I heard JW trying to imply in her chirpy little sarcastic voice that the bullet that went through Travis' brain was ONLY from a .25mm - I about came unglued. If my t.v. was a portal into the courtroom - I could'a reached through and yanked every hair outta her head.

Thanks Gypsy (and Rocco) I'm glad to see I was not the only one who saw it that way. Despite the fact that I think JA premeditated this crime against Travis, and continues to commit crimes against him to date, I always try to stay on the fence for a real bombshell, because somethimes things aren't always as they appear. But no way could I give JW a pass on that one. :stormingmad:

 

[legalmania]

I googled to see Travis' neck wound and Ron Goldman's was there!!
Ahh! :hills:
That was BAD!

Help me get it out of my mind...

I thought that Nicole's was worse than Ron's, I think that Travis's and Nicole's were about equal.

 

[kaydono]

As for Juror #8 being dismissed - Remember the 12 Angry Men?

http://plays.about.com/od/plays/a/twelveangry.htm

I have only seen the newer version of that movie, but my mom insists the original one is better.

 

[gngr~snap]

Hi all,

Not sure if anyone brought this up in discussions today but I wonder why we never heard from the Cancun PPL representative that was supposedly on the rebuttal list.

There was so much information entered in this case, just wondering if as the trial progressed the Cancun trip "motive" kind of faded a bit. Seemed that way to me.

Thoughts?

That file was added to the rest of the too "prejudicial"
for Jodi to get a fair trial box!

Here is where all those files are.!

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

Wow. I am gonna have to use this non trial days to look into that. That is the good thing about this forum. People can notice stuff, that others may overlook.

We know that the parents saw a problem with their dear daughter - They just kept it in the family.....Shoved her on over to Grandma to deal with.

 

[Curious Me]

IMO
Given the last minute krap the DT has flung...

If 1st degree murder is gonna be a slam dunk..
PRE-MEDITATION has to be beyond a reasonable doubt in every jurer's mind.
JM did great with the gas cans, gas purchases, Dr. Demaret's BPD, hair color change, white car rental, ryan burnes as alibi, no cell phone and Jodi's lies...

However, I will feel much more "slam dunk" confident when Juan stresses the stolen gun more, the timing of the robbery re: 2 days after jodi got the text where Travis calls jodi out on her wacco BS 1 week before the murder..... during closing arguments.

Not sure whether the knife or gun came first (It could have jammed) but the fact is...
1) She did shoot him and admits it
2) She did admit to getting rid of the gun (key evidence) somewhere in the desert.....The one piece of evidence that could prove pre-meditation BEYOND ANY DOUBT ... The gun that was stolen from grandpa a week earlier ......

BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT PRE-MEDITATION
ENSURE's a 1st degree murder conviction.

RBM The stolen gun from grandpa is what I'm struggling with tonight. Help me if you can.

I was thinking Jodi could have just taken the gun quietly and then put it back after the murder. Why have it reported stolen as part of a break-in?

Her grandpa must have kept close track of his guns, I'm guessing, and would have noticed it missing right away. Or perhaps she thought she was really safer if LE had it on report as stolen.

Trying to think like Jodi taxes my brain!

Okay, she might have thought once Travis was found dead LE would hear about her previous antics. But, I doubt they'd be checking out all her grandpa's guns if she put it back. Having it reported as stolen worked against her in the end. What do others think on this subject?

See, I'm no good at being a sneaky criminal. I wouldn't have thought of the gas cans either.

 

[Lorelilly]

Ok since there will be a surbuttal! Does that mean the defense has the last word in closing arguments?

NO Juan goes then JW or KN then Juan finishes

 

[Plumeria5]

It appears there is a Dr. Robert Geffner/ Alyce LaViolette connection. Or at the least, have done workshops together.

 

[thefragile7393]

She suffered from post-partum depression, but still kept having children; it just escalated after every one. And not to mention being cooped up in an RV with 4 kids while hubby is at work. moo

Post partum psychosis actually IIRC. She had PPD after one or two of the kids....and kept getting worse after that until after the last one actually triggered psychosis, again IIRC.
Her poorly controlled schizophrenia made her a HUGE risk...but her many docs and husband didn't get it and she herself really wasn't fully able to see the consequences of having more children. No one was really looking out for her well-being

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[thefragile7393]

I have only seen the newer version of that movie, but my mom insists the original one is better.

muuuuuuch better. one of my all time faves.

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[osabung]

OK, I am catching up on youtube as my boss took me to lunch right as court was to start!

I see JA was a little upset today - boo freaking hoo sweetheart, shouldve thought abotu that before you killed Travis.

And whats up with juror #8? Is he gone? So now we are down 3 jurors? Is that correct?

And I am posting my FAVORITE gif that I stole from someone here.... sorry, I had to. hehehe

I believe Jodi's wasn't upset today because she was REALLY upset. I believe she knows she has a few more shots to make this jury believe she is sincere and feels remorse for what she did, which she clearly doesn't. She is crying these "tears" for her own benefit, not because she is really sad. It's all an act. The girl is always on stage.

 

[kaydono]

Trust me, 30 years goes by very fast for the family left devastated. Too fast.

I hope the parole boards rejects her request each and every time.

 

[legalmania]

He probably heard the DT was putting on Another Ex-Expert and that court next Wednesday will be in session until that Ex-Expert is done and he couldn't handle the thought of it so he went running from the courtroom:banghead:... seriously, I don't think anyone knows yet. Should be interesting to find out about him and #5,

Or maybe he's afraid that if they don't come out with the right outcome that he could end up like the jury in Fl. How do you think people will react if their verdict is hung?