IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[Ixchel13]

I have a really hard time with a couple of drunks and MB pulling off hiding a body. I think it would be a very difficult decision to make let alone, the execution and apparent success. CR seems most involved, but has 2 people covering/involved if he's involved....if I'm MB or JR, I'm unware of what CR has done and do NOT want to get involved in hiding a body.

Related, but OT, at the time, none of them expected the outcome, whether it be that she would pass on, or concern for cameras, etc.

Continued from above....If I'm MB, I'm stuck in the middle, between the mess that CR engages me in and JR. Allegedly, he's sober and working....why get involved.

Then there is JR, again...why be the last person? If LS left MB/CRs apt on her own, then JR doesn't have to claim any story, make calls, etc. But if MB brings her over/calls him over, why volunteer to be the last person. I can't buy the conspiracy, hiding a body is too serious for these guys at 4:00 in the morning and 2 have been partying....and, if I'm a house guest, no way I'm getting involved. And no one has been able to shoot a hole in their alibis, witnesses or stories.... I just don't see it.

Fake ID and the Jacket: it would make sense if she had the jacket on a Kilroys and the at SW with CR, that she kept her Fake ID separate from the real one, and for some reason had her key and Fake ID in her pocket....may still be there today. JR knowing this could add merit to his story...he didn't claim that she had anything else that we learned 'later' that she lost. It does add up.

Another thought....IIRC, JW went to HTs class to get a key to access LS room to check on her because he could not find her? Why didn't he just ask HT if LS was home in bed? Had HT not been at her apt all morning and this was the first time he caught up with her and he wanted to check again to see if she had made it home? Wouldn't HT have known this? Why did JW go to confront 5N...who knew where she ended up that night and who told JW? If she was a partier like NW and JW claim, why was this time different than any other (HT states, "she took it far this time"), but why did they think that the next morning and report her missing.

I have always been suspect of JW. It is clear to me that something started at Indy, and the unfinished business between CR and LS picked up that night. I would venture to say that CR had JR call LS/DR to come over on his behalf, hoping to hook up with her, and I have no reason to believe that LS wasn't interested as well, as she opted not to meet up with JW, but when the other offer comes from JR, she leaves at 12:30, and opts NOT to communicate with the rest of the world on her cell phone where/what she was doing. She goes to Kilroys with CR, leaves Kilroys with CR and once home, just feet from her apt, opts to leave again with CR. I believe JW was aware of some of her whereabouts and actions that night. Someone (the recipient of the 2nd call) from the SW party prior to LS/DR leaving, knows what went down, hence the name not being released.

CS and RS....I respect the hell out them, and how they've handled themselves. I can honestly say I couldn't do it...even if I just suspected them, I would have been kicking doors down and confronting....moreso at the beginning to get answers to find my daughter....and yes, with total disregard of the legal consequenses it meant for me. I, like many parents, would sacrific my well being for even just the hope of my daughter. IMO...ONLY, I feel CS/RS, PIs, and LE/FBI, have a good idea what happened and who did it, just not where she and are building a VERY strong case to prosecute who's responsible to the fullest!

^^^yes^^^^ Also say ZO or someone else got ahold of Lauren's phone.
Either called JW or he called them. Bingo, he knows where Lauren is. CS tells us that Lauren last used her phone at SW. She leaves a very open interpretation of this fact. If someone called JW, or he called them, on Lauren's phone, they could either be lying about giving him the phone, or, they could have cooperated and said they gave it to JW. But, maybe it's this person's word against JW's, making them equally suspect. If JW did harm Lauren, he would need to get the phone (shoes too?) back to Kilroys, again, not hard to do. If someone did bring Lauren's phone to JW, he could have confronted her after she left JR's, as in, "look what's on your phone, I know you've been trying to hook up with CR."
Also, LE and the Spierers only say that she used her phone last at SW before she left. The phone, IMO, is only important if JW is the perp. If he had the phone and then brought it back to Kilroys, then he's guilty as sin.
If I were messed up and couldn't find my phone, chances are I'd just say oh well it will turn up tomorrow. But if I were terrified my BF would find me out
with another man because of what was on it, I would keep looking, like she did. If she thought she left it at Kilroy's, why would she keep looking?
When they say a bartender was the last witness outside of the group
to see her condition, and then her phone ends up in the bar and all of the sudden everything is blamed on Lauren, IDK....

 

[imkeylime]

"Jesse always threatened to call and tell her parents and she said, 'If you do, I'll break up with you'."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

Maybe he made one last threat and she broke it off. Hence her going to the Indy 500 with JR, CR, MB (and others) on May 29. Hence he makes his agent orange comment on FB on May 30. Hence 3 days later she is partying with JR, CR, MB (and others) again. Now she is missing. Any red flags here?

I've always more or less assumed (dangerous, I know) that LS and JW were still together and that she was just friends with CR, perhaps for partying purposes. I see a lot more guy/girl friendships nowadays, and maybe LS thought she could handle CR if he wanted more.

But your post makes me think ... JW posted something on FB after LS' disappearance about being "back" in the relationship. That could just be for FB purposes, but I'm not sure why it needed changing. What if they HAD broken up and the comment was in response to him feeling guilty for not being there for her. Or, nefariously, it was a way of claiming "ownership" after the fact, i.e., he got her back, regardless of what it took.

That's a really dark thought ... and it's not what I believe at this point. But it would be interesting if someone had insight that they weren't together in their "usual" way.

 

[Ros]

actually, the phone was FOUND at Kilroy's. We don't know she left it there. or if anyone brought it back and left it there, very easy to do; nor do we know when the phone was first noticed. If the employee who found it said, "When I was opening the place, I found the phone and shoes neatly together near the volleyball court, ' or something like that, then maybe. IMO, phone and shoes
are important. If a Kilroy's employee was involved, if the bartender witness was from Kilroy's, you know, the one who saw her hit her head and has a very vivid picture of how high and drunk she supposedly was, then this may indicate that the witness was actually involved in what LS and CR were doing at 10th and College. Everyone assumes this witness was just happening by, but the case may be that she wasn't a super-forthcoming witness, and only being a witness because she otherwise would be in trouble!
If the witness wasn't super-forthcoming, it could be that since she was implicated as being there at 10th and College with CR and LS, it could look very badly on Kilroy's for serving Lauren before her disappearance. Maybe knowing their employee was involved somehow and that they served Lauren with a fake ID prompted them to close for two months to remodel. Obviously I wouldn't expect them to admit this and they'll prolly say it was all planned, but conveniently this made witness recollections and employee discussion of the case come to a screeching halt. Sorry, all this to ask, Was the bartender witness an employee of Kilroy's?
Was this witness involved somehow? She said she doubled back around.Supposedly to check on Lauren's safety. But never did anything to help.

I am not sure it matters, but TG said the witness was a manager at a bar rather than a bartender.

http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/18/lauren-spierer-was-thrown-out-of-bar-alone-not-with-friend/

 

[bx2]

I am not sure it matters, but TG said the witness was a manager at a bar rather than a bartender.

http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/18/lauren-spierer-was-thrown-out-of-bar-alone-not-with-friend/

He also indicated that the bar manager witness wasn't from Kilroys
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6869594&postcount=188"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6869594&postcount=188[/ame]

 

[bx2]

But your post makes me think ... JW posted something on FB after LS' disappearance about being "back" in the relationship. That could just be for FB purposes, but I'm not sure why it needed changing. What if they HAD broken up and the comment was in response to him feeling guilty for not being there for her. Or, nefariously, it was a way of claiming "ownership" after the fact, i.e., he got her back, regardless of what it took.

I think LS facebook profile was suspended early on, and then re-activated by family a bit later on. This has the effect of removing your relationship status since its tied into a now suspended account, and then putting you back in the relationship when the account was reactivated. At least this was how I read into his comments at the time.

 

[BCityBird]

Interesting idea... What I find even more interesting is how JR knew exactly that LS only had 2 items in her possession: 1) a fake ID and 2) her SW keycard. How would he know that this is all that was in her possession? These are items that likely would have been in a pocket, else they would have gone the way of the rest of her belongings (Shoes and phone - however they wound up at Kilroy's, and wallet with keys over in the gravel lot area where she went down nose first) I find it peculiar that the keycard and ID were not in that wallet... and if they were in her hands why not drop it with the rest? Along the same lines as your plausible idea, could not the ID card and key card been poached the same way? It's amazing to me that JR would admit this, even as I think he spun a tale. It's perplexing to me that he would note those items. Because to me, it's rather suspicious that he notes those 2 items. Another thought I had was that CR had in fact taken possession of these items(how did they get into SW, was that caught on video? If CR swiped the card.... ) and they they were eventually passed on to JR, maybe by MB.

LS had no pockets. She was wearing leggings. That is how JR would know. Anything she had with her, she had to be carrying in her hands.

 

[BCityBird]

I've always more or less assumed (dangerous, I know) that LS and JW were still together and that she was just friends with CR, perhaps for partying purposes. I see a lot more guy/girl friendships nowadays, and maybe LS thought she could handle CR if he wanted more.

But your post makes me think ... JW posted something on FB after LS' disappearance about being "back" in the relationship. That could just be for FB purposes, but I'm not sure why it needed changing. What if they HAD broken up and the comment was in response to him feeling guilty for not being there for her. Or, nefariously, it was a way of claiming "ownership" after the fact, i.e., he got her back, regardless of what it took.

That's a really dark thought ... and it's not what I believe at this point. But it would be interesting if someone had insight that they weren't together in their "usual" way.

If they had broken up, I am sure their friends would be aware of this and that information would have been shared/common knowledge. More likely is what a previous posted noted about the suspended/reactivation of the facebook account.

 

[Ros]

LS had no pockets. She was wearing leggings. That is how JR would know. Anything she had with her, she had to be carrying in her hands.

or in her bra, which raises the question of how JR would know.

From the description of LS on the way to 5N, I find bit surprising that she would get there still carrying something in her hands. Perhaps her jacket had a pocket.

 

[Jmoose]

I have a really hard time with a couple of drunks and MB pulling off hiding a body. I think it would be a very difficult decision to make let alone, the execution and apparent success. CR seems most involved, but has 2 people covering/involved if he's involved....if I'm MB or JR, I'm unware of what CR has done and do NOT want to get involved in hiding a body.

Related, but OT, at the time, none of them expected the outcome, whether it be that she would pass on, or concern for cameras, etc.

Continued from above....If I'm MB, I'm stuck in the middle, between the mess that CR engages me in and JR. Allegedly, he's sober and working....why get involved.

Then there is JR, again...why be the last person? If LS left MB/CRs apt on her own, then JR doesn't have to claim any story, make calls, etc. But if MB brings her over/calls him over, why volunteer to be the last person. I can't buy the conspiracy, hiding a body is too serious for these guys at 4:00 in the morning and 2 have been partying....and, if I'm a house guest, no way I'm getting involved. And no one has been able to shoot a hole in their alibis, witnesses or stories.... I just don't see it.

Fake ID and the Jacket: it would make sense if she had the jacket on a Kilroys and the at SW with CR, that she kept her Fake ID separate from the real one, and for some reason had her key and Fake ID in her pocket....may still be there today. JR knowing this could add merit to his story...he didn't claim that she had anything else that we learned 'later' that she lost. It does add up.

Another thought....IIRC, JW went to HTs class to get a key to access LS room to check on her because he could not find her? Why didn't he just ask HT if LS was home in bed? Had HT not been at her apt all morning and this was the first time he caught up with her and he wanted to check again to see if she had made it home? Wouldn't HT have known this? Why did JW go to confront 5N...who knew where she ended up that night and who told JW? If she was a partier like NW and JW claim, why was this time different than any other (HT states, "she took it far this time"), but why did they think that the next morning and report her missing.

I have always been suspect of JW. It is clear to me that something started at Indy, and the unfinished business between CR and LS picked up that night. I would venture to say that CR had JR call LS/DR to come over on his behalf, hoping to hook up with her, and I have no reason to believe that LS wasn't interested as well, as she opted not to meet up with JW, but when the other offer comes from JR, she leaves at 12:30, and opts NOT to communicate with the rest of the world on her cell phone where/what she was doing. She goes to Kilroys with CR, leaves Kilroys with CR and once home, just feet from her apt, opts to leave again with CR. I believe JW was aware of some of her whereabouts and actions that night. Someone (the recipient of the 2nd call) from the SW party prior to LS/DR leaving, knows what went down, hence the name not being released.

CS and RS....I respect the hell out them, and how they've handled themselves. I can honestly say I couldn't do it...even if I just suspected them, I would have been kicking doors down and confronting....moreso at the beginning to get answers to find my daughter....and yes, with total disregard of the legal consequenses it meant for me. I, like many parents, would sacrific my well being for even just the hope of my daughter. IMO...ONLY, I feel CS/RS, PIs, and LE/FBI, have a good idea what happened and who did it, just not where she and are building a VERY strong case to prosecute who's responsible to the fullest!

I understand what you're saying regarding the possibility that some people who were under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol somehow managed to commit the perfect crime, however, you may be underestimating the benefit of pure, dumb luck-sometimes that's all you need. I have been contributing on a thread about a woman who has been missing since 1975-and have corresponded with Stacy Horn, the author of The Restless Sleep. This book is about a Cold Case Squad that investigates cases in NYC that other detectives have essentially given up on. Surely not all, or even most of the perpetrators of those crimes are skilled, or even smart-sometimes they're just lucky-I think that if these students are actually responsible for Lauren's disappearance, that even they didn't think they'd get away with it!

 

[J. Lock]

I mean if he did step out to find her, chances are he brought his phone. With a warrant from LE they should easily be able to track his movements that evening to see whether or not he was telling the truth. Typically in crimes of passion people don't think rationally, I doubt if he went out looking for her he would leave his cell at home.

If you accept JR 's story, for the sake of argument, and assume that LS left his apartment at 4:30 a.m., I always wondered whether LS would have walked to JW's house instead of returning to her place. If so, JW wouldn't have any movements to track.

 

[bx2]

or in her bra, which raises the question of how JR would know.

From the description of LS on the way to 5N, I find bit surprising that she would get there still carrying something in her hands. Perhaps her jacket had a pocket.

Not directed at you, just wanted to mention that the "jacket" is speculation based on the piece of clothing she is seen holding in the Smallwood picture.

LONG BLACK LEGGINGS, WHITE OFF THE SHOULDER SHEER SHIRT THAT WAS CROPPED AT THE BOTTOM, WHITE LONG SLEEVE BUTTON DOWN SHIRT WITH SLEEVES ROLLED UP

 

[bx2]

The only camera on the corner of 11th and College is pointing directly southeast at Amethyst House, and Lauren supposedly turned southwest, the camera does not point at the corner she supposedly turned.

Can you clarify what you are referring to? I've been through this intersection many times and don't see it.

 

[imkeylime]

I think LS facebook profile was suspended early on, and then re-activated by family a bit later on. This has the effect of removing your relationship status since its tied into a now suspended account, and then putting you back in the relationship when the account was reactivated. At least this was how I read into his comments at the time.

Thanks, bx2 (and BCityBird) for the clarification. What made me wonder is the part of the USA Today article that suggest LS told JW she was going to bed (but then went out). That might suggest a change of feelings (or that she wanted to go out, and he was controlling?), but it's also coming from JW's dad (and JW by extension, I suppose).

Here's the quote: "Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television. He said his son was texting, back and forth, with Spierer that night and that 'she indicated to him that she was home and going to sleep.' He texted to her that 'if you wake up, call me and we'll talk.' Then he went to bed, the father said."

I thought the article in its entirety was horrible. I guess the point the W's were trying to make (above) was that JW didn't know LS' whereabouts so couldn't be involved.

 

[imkeylime]

If you accept JR 's story, for the sake of argument, and assume that LS left his apartment at 4:30 a.m., I always wondered whether LS would have walked to JW's house instead of returning to her place. If so, JW wouldn't have any movements to track.

For the sake of argument ... I could see a young woman making a quick decision to walk to her BF's place instead of her own under the circumstances of the night. If she could walk, that is. To me, that's the mystery question: Could she navigate on her own accord, as JR claims?

If she could (and I doubt it but am willing to be open-minded), JW's might have seemed safer than SW after the encounter between CR and ZO. Also, she might have just wanted to be with JW. Or she might have thought HT would be critical of her hanging out with CR. ???

There was an account of dogs allegedly tracking her to JW's. I apologize for not having a link for that (or know how reliable it is).

 

[J. Lock]

For the sake of argument ... I could see a young woman making a quick decision to walk to her BF's place instead of her own under the circumstances of the night. If she could walk, that is. To me, that's the mystery question: Could she navigate on her own accord, as JR claims?

If she could (and I doubt it but am willing to be open-minded), JW's might have seemed safer than SW after the encounter between CR and ZO. Also, she might have just wanted to be with JW. Or she might have thought HT would be critical of her hanging out with CR. ???

There was an account of dogs allegedly tracking her to JW's. I apologize for not having a link for that (or know how reliable it is).

If LS went there it would certainly explain JW's avoidance of a LE administered lie detector test. I also have always wondered why JW needed to get the key to LS's apartment from HT if he was simply checking to see if LS was there. If she was there, she could answer the door when he came over. If she wasn't there, she wouldn't answer the door of course but there'd be no reason for JW to enter the apartment. So why the key?

 

[BCityBird]

actually, the phone was FOUND at Kilroy's. We don't know she left it there. or if anyone brought it back and left it there, very easy to do; nor do we know when the phone was first noticed. If the employee who found it said, "When I was opening the place, I found the phone and shoes neatly together near the volleyball court, ' or something like that, then maybe. IMO, phone and shoes
are important. .

I think its really a stretch. She put her phone down and took off her shoes to place in the sand. Also, there is no volleyball court at Killroy's.

 

[BCityBird]

^^^yes^^^^ Also say ZO or someone else got ahold of Lauren's phone.
Either called JW or he called them. Bingo, he knows where Lauren is. CS tells us that Lauren last used her phone at SW. She leaves a very open interpretation of this fact. If someone called JW, or he called them, on Lauren's phone, they could either be lying about giving him the phone, or, they could have cooperated and said they gave it to JW. But, maybe it's this person's word against JW's, making them equally suspect. If JW did harm Lauren, he would need to get the phone (shoes too?) back to Kilroys, again, not hard to do. If someone did bring Lauren's phone to JW, he could have confronted her after she left JR's, as in, "look what's on your phone, I know you've been trying to hook up with CR."
Also, LE and the Spierers only say that she used her phone last at SW before she left. The phone, IMO, is only important if JW is the perp. If he had the phone and then brought it back to Kilroys, then he's guilty as sin.
If I were messed up and couldn't find my phone, chances are I'd just say oh well it will turn up tomorrow. But if I were terrified my BF would find me out
with another man because of what was on it, I would keep looking, like she did. If she thought she left it at Kilroy's, why would she keep looking?
When they say a bartender was the last witness outside of the group
to see her condition, and then her phone ends up in the bar and all of the sudden everything is blamed on Lauren, IDK....

Actually, it would be hard to get the shoes and phone back to Killroy's considering that they would be closed at that point.

 

[BCityBird]

For the sake of argument ... I could see a young woman making a quick decision to walk to her BF's place instead of her own under the circumstances of the night. If she could walk, that is. To me, that's the mystery question: Could she navigate on her own accord, as JR claims?

If she could (and I doubt it but am willing to be open-minded), JW's might have seemed safer than SW after the encounter between CR and ZO. Also, she might have just wanted to be with JW. Or she might have thought HT would be critical of her hanging out with CR. ???

There was an account of dogs allegedly tracking her to JW's. I apologize for not having a link for that (or know how reliable it is).

If I remember correctly the dog tracked LS to JW's from SM, not the townhouses.

EDIT: Not sure the tracking rumor is true. I cannot find any news articles discussing it. So, IDK.

 

[imkeylime]

If LS went there it would certainly explain JW's avoidance of a LE administered lie detector test. I also have always wondered why JW needed to get the key to LS's apartment from HT if he was simply checking to see if LS was there. If she was there, she could answer the door when he came over. If she wasn't there, she wouldn't answer the door of course but there'd be no reason for JW to enter the apartment. So why the key?

Good points. I'm not sure what that's all about. It appears that he grew worried when she didn't answer her texts and then Sports called, saying they had her phone.

I worry when my daughter (a bit younger than LS) doesn't answer her phone when out or spending the night at a friend's. But I also tell myself that her phone's battery might be dead.

I haven't been able to ascertain whether the SW or 5N apartments had regular phones. Someone a few pages back said that a "package" including TV, internet, and phone is offered. One can get a similar package where I live, and if her apartment had a regular phone, perhaps JW also called that (and we haven't got the memo).

If not ... yeah, he could have gone and pounded on her door. Unless he'd already heard something about the night ...

 

[VeryVeritas]

I have a really hard time with a couple of drunks and MB pulling off hiding a body. I think it would be a very difficult decision to make let alone, the execution and apparent success. CR seems most involved, but has 2 people covering/involved if he's involved....if I'm MB or JR, I'm unware of what CR has done and do NOT want to get involved in hiding a body.

Related, but OT, at the time, none of them expected the outcome, whether it be that she would pass on, or concern for cameras, etc.

Continued from above....If I'm MB, I'm stuck in the middle, between the mess that CR engages me in and JR. Allegedly, he's sober and working....why get involved.

Then there is JR, again...why be the last person? If LS left MB/CRs apt on her own, then JR doesn't have to claim any story, make calls, etc. But if MB brings her over/calls him over, why volunteer to be the last person. I can't buy the conspiracy, hiding a body is too serious for these guys at 4:00 in the morning and 2 have been partying....and, if I'm a house guest, no way I'm getting involved. And no one has been able to shoot a hole in their alibis, witnesses or stories.... I just don't see it.

Fake ID and the Jacket: it would make sense if she had the jacket on a Kilroys and the at SW with CR, that she kept her Fake ID separate from the real one, and for some reason had her key and Fake ID in her pocket....may still be there today. JR knowing this could add merit to his story...he didn't claim that she had anything else that we learned 'later' that she lost. It does add up.

Another thought....IIRC, JW went to HTs class to get a key to access LS room to check on her because he could not find her? Why didn't he just ask HT if LS was home in bed? Had HT not been at her apt all morning and this was the first time he caught up with her and he wanted to check again to see if she had made it home? Wouldn't HT have known this? Why did JW go to confront 5N...who knew where she ended up that night and who told JW? If she was a partier like NW and JW claim, why was this time different than any other (HT states, "she took it far this time"), but why did they think that the next morning and report her missing.

I have always been suspect of JW. It is clear to me that something started at Indy, and the unfinished business between CR and LS picked up that night. I would venture to say that CR had JR call LS/DR to come over on his behalf, hoping to hook up with her, and I have no reason to believe that LS wasn't interested as well, as she opted not to meet up with JW, but when the other offer comes from JR, she leaves at 12:30, and opts NOT to communicate with the rest of the world on her cell phone where/what she was doing. She goes to Kilroys with CR, leaves Kilroys with CR and once home, just feet from her apt, opts to leave again with CR. I believe JW was aware of some of her whereabouts and actions that night. Someone (the recipient of the 2nd call) from the SW party prior to LS/DR leaving, knows what went down, hence the name not being released.

CS and RS....I respect the hell out them, and how they've handled themselves. I can honestly say I couldn't do it...even if I just suspected them, I would have been kicking doors down and confronting....moreso at the beginning to get answers to find my daughter....and yes, with total disregard of the legal consequenses it meant for me. I, like many parents, would sacrific my well being for even just the hope of my daughter. IMO...ONLY, I feel CS/RS, PIs, and LE/FBI, have a good idea what happened and who did it, just not where she and are building a VERY strong case to prosecute who's responsible to the fullest!

It adds up for you that JR knew that LS had a Fake ID and Keycard in her jacket pocket? I would never go through anyone's pockets... not unless maybe they were unconscious in my place... or maybe dead. I would most certainly be offended if I went to a friends house and they searched my pockets. I think that these 2 items were either passed to him by CR/MB OR he went through her pockets and found them while she was out(or deceased). Who scanned the keycard to get entry to SW? LS was not able to stand and apparently couldn't talk... was she scanning her card? That should be on SW video. If CR was scanning... then he may have kept possession of her keycard until later. He did not live at SW and so should not have had his own keycard. It is not plausible that LS was walking around with the keycard and fake ID in her hand. These items must have been in a pocket or in someone else's possession. The stuff she was holding in her hands... was left behind after the Alley exit to the gravel lot.