George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[PaintingAnemone]

If someone RUNS from another person who is following them, it's obvious they are trying to get away. Trayvon wanted to get away from Zimmerman and run. Why in the world would he circle back from someone he is clearly trying to get away from. Makes no sense that he circled back. GZ went in pursuit of someone he thought was up to no good, on drugs, a (*$&# punk who always get away.

Exactly. According to the witness, during TM's conversation on the phone, he curses and says that the guy following him (GZ) is behind him again. Sounds like it was GZ coming from behind, not the other way around.

 

[m00c0w]

According to Zimmerman, the paragon of honesty.

So, you think he clearly saw Martin but consistently lied for two additional minutes about not knowing where he was?

In any case, I think we can all agree that Zimmerman wasn't quietly attacking Martin while on the phone with NEN, was he? That still leaves the two minutes for Martin to have gone elsewhere.

Unless we're going into fantasy land where he was holding Martin at gunpoint while he was on the phone with NEN or something equally specious.

 

[polleypockets]

In 10 seconds, he would be able to slide out from under Martin and climb on top of him, yes. As I said, ten seconds is a long time.

:twocents:

it depends on which tape you listen to, he did not say he slid out in the reenactment tape he said he sat up and threw tm off

 

[TXN4LIFE]

I've always thought Zimmerman was in the wrong but don't know why. He very well could have been afraid for his life when he shot. I don't know. But some things bother me, like a couple of witnesses ( will say IMO since I don't have it to quote) say they say a vertical struggle first. GZ said he was sucker punched and fell. That wouldn't have indicated a verticle struggle. It bothers me where TM was laying. It bothers me a person hears the screams, gun shot, and then comes out of his house and walks down to the crime scene, not knowing what was going on or who was out there. GZ's demeaner afterwards bothers me. The matter of fact answers to what he did. Imagine being scared for your life, screaming for someone to help you...the adrenaline rush you are having and then all the sudden its gone?

Whether or not he should be found guilty I don't know, and these small things that nag me might not even matter if he was scared for his life at the time.

If the state wants to get their conviction, they better have some dang good testimony coming up from experts that can dispute Georges accounts.

 

[Landonsmom02]

The kid was old enough to be home alone. I believe he was 13 at the time?

If you are being followed, you do not take that person to your residence, EVER!

Thanks, I was unsure of the younger brothers age. IMO, TM had a cell and if he was being followed, he should have hung up with RJ and called 911, just IMO.

 

[marlap]

Hi Y'all...

I have been lurking some, not posting much on this case...

But my feeling is that GZ profiled, followed, and then tried to hold TM in place to wait for LE and that's how a struggle began.

I think TM did hit GZ because he was trying to get away from him and then GZ shot him.

IMO GZ was a ticking timebomb. I don't think at all that GZ got out of his car intending to kill TM.

But maybe someone yelling fire in a theater doesn't intend for anyone to be trampled to death either.

I do feel GZ is guilty of 2nd degree murder. I think he was on a power trip that night (based on his calls to LE), that his adrenaline was pumping, and he felt powerful knowing he had a loaded weapon and no punk was going to get away from him.

All just my opinions...

 

[AngelWings444]

WOAH! So GZ started to do MMA exercises the next day. Yikes. Guess he wasn't so injured after all. I had a broken nose and you can't jump around!

 

[cityslick]

There is no evidence whatsoever that Trayvon wanted to fight or attack Zimmerman. He RAN from GZ! People who run are in fear!

All evidence points to GZ following and pursuing Trayvon.

During what point in TM's phone call does it sound like he is in fear?

 

[nnglas]

Just asking a question.

One would have to wonder why the gun had to be introduced in the struggle at all? No matter who started it. Zimmerman has no wounds on his hands either. If he was trained in MMA why not fight back before shooting an unarmed kid? It doesn't even seem like he tried.


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[polleypockets]

GZ's back was wet and TM had grass stains at the knees per testimony

he was also face down dead in the grass for hours - which was over 10 feet away from the siedewalk, so i am not sure how he ended there if he was beating gz head into the side walk

 

[m00c0w]

it depends on which tape you listen to, he did not say he slid out in the reenactment tape he said he sat up and threw tm off

No. He clearly said, "I don't know if I pushed him off me, or if he fell off me. I just know I got on top..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c#t=13m20s

 

[gracielee]

Did I just hear the prosecutor say 'pacifically'? I hear so many say that rather than *specifically* these days. Drives me nuts.

 

[sacrablue]

May I add? "Continue to follow the person until they are almost home--as close as the back of the house."
Force the person to come with you, possibly at gunpoint.
When he resists, shoot him.

It really can be that easy but you know we just got to pay lawyers to explain it to us.

 

[DIBSY]

After a solid week of this travesty of a trial, I am convinced the Prosecution could give a hoot about convicting Zimmerman and are just going through the motions to satisfy convention when an unarmed child is killed.

They threw Rachel Jeantel directly under the bus and treated her like a curiosity at the carnival they concocted. They didn't oppose her 7 blinking hours of grueling, often insulting grilling by the wearisome Defense.

When relevent testimony, like that of Selma Mora ( and others ) made salient points, they let them slip into obscurity and refused to utilize them against the defendant. Are they playing for the Defense ? A lot of you have asked Why they called 'that' witness. Well there's the explanation , in my estimation. They just want to help free GZ and make the case go away.:moo:

 

[PrincessSezMe]

Just heard commentators say that manslaughter in this case would be 30 years max. They think the judge would impose the max (as do I). IMO, that is excessive. If manslaughter is a jury option, they might go NG (assuming they know the penalty).

Florida Statute on manslaughter:

(1) The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence under s. 827.03(3) commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Mandatory sentences (State of Florida):

Manslaughter: Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Aggravated manslaughter of a child: Maximum of 30 years in prison; maximum could be enhanced to life in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Third degree murder: Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

Second degree murder: Maximum of life in prison; Minimum of 25 years if a firearm is used, otherwise a minimum of 20.5 years under sentencing guidelines for a person with a clean record.

First degree murder Death penalty or life in prison. Parole in FL has been abolished for all crimes since 1983.

 

[nnglas]

So Zimmerman said he was in a "fight" that would be very significant.


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[Beyond Belief]

So many lessons, indeed. The thing that's annoying me is that a 17 year old who was walking home from 7/11 minding his own biz was shot and killed.

Sure does, and makes you wonder why when the witness entered the picture and hollered 'stop' why he didn't stop. Unless of course he didn't hear him because George was screaming. No one is one the side of shooting someone, but it all makes you think and pay attention where events can lead. imo

 

[Maryann123]

but there is absolutley no evidence saying that tm circled around at all

Then you don't believe TM's girlfriend either? She said TM told her he was in the back of his dad's house. That's a loooooooooooooooooong way for GZ to drag him back to his truck after attacking him. And then GZ shoots him, either before or after he beats himself up. That crazy George could have saved himself a lot of trouble if he had shot him at the mailboxes, since that was his plan all along.

 

[cityslick]

he was also face down dead in the grass for hours - which was over 10 feet away from the siedewalk, so i am not sure how he ended there if he was beating gz head into the side walk

Witness testified they moved to the sidewalk.

 

[popsicle]

it depends on which tape you listen to, he did not say he slid out in the reenactment tape he said he sat up and threw tm off

I believe it was all of the above. lol He said he really couldn't remember. iirc