Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[mrsward]

Another possibly Eastern European Unidentified living girl found. Thought this may be of some interest to those following this particular case.

Thanks to MrsWard for starting the thread!


DUBLIN-Abused-child-wandering-street
DUBLIN Abused child wandering street - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Truly shocking.. i was going to post in the unidentified but thought maybe wait for the courtw to give there permission for a photo of her before i did.

This scares me.. 1 has escaped.. 1 found how many havent ?

 

[etamine]

Maria is apparently five or six according to her dentals, rather than four like ED/HS claimed.

Head of the gypsy camp has said he was offered a child for 1000 euros (£850/$1350) by a bulgarian couple.

According to a source - so take this with a pinch of salt - Salis has said he didn't want her in his home. He apparently told ED he didn't want a child because "'I don’t want to put a bomb in my house".

Guns, bullets, weed, pills and stolen credit cards were found in the camp.

All from here.
Something odd is going on here.

 

[Kaliste]

Truly shocking.. i was going to post in the unidentified but thought maybe wait for the courtw to give there permission for a photo of her before i did.

This scares me.. 1 has escaped.. 1 found how many havent ?

Exactly what I'm worried about. Interpol is about to be very busy it seems.

 

[ctkid]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57608580/mystery-of-girl-found-in-gypsy-camp-deepens/

I have not got a chance to read thru the whole thread.

Why do I fall behind reading all these threads!

:blushing:

Marking my spot

 

[Elley Mae]

Among the suspect documents found by police was a 2009 birth and baptism registration from Athens authorities, the news agency said.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/19/world/europe/greece-mystery-child/

Over 40 files relating to suspected cases of infant trafficking and illegal adoptions are in the hands of prosecutors across the country, according to data presented to parliament in late August by the justice ministry.

According to the data, Thessaloniki and eastern Crete have the most cases.

I wonder who the 2009 birth and baptism registration from Athens belong to.

 

[TopTop]

I find it incomprehensible why the other children in this case, who cannot all be the mother's, are being ignored. If it is just because they have dark skin and hair, I'll be heartbroken.

I think the belief is that many of those children don't actually exist. They probably ffraudulantly registered children for financial purposes. The remaining children that do exist may actually be biologically theirs. MOO.

 

[time]

My bad, I see news sources say something similar to this

"The couple had 14 children with them when they were arrested"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-case-of-maria-greece-s-fake-roma-child.html

 

[time]

From the same link...

Police say the couple had falsified documents and birth certificates to show that Dimopoulou had birthed six children in the span of just ten months. Salis had papers claiming he was the father of four children. The couple had 14 children with them when they were arrested, many of whom police say bear no resemblance to either parent. The identities of those children are being cross-checked by Greek authorities. Palavra, the couple’s lawyer, said that the multiple birth certificates were a way of maximizing state benefits and that it was common practice to raise children communally within the nomadic camps. She claimed that the archaic Greek system, which does not cross-check births between regions, makes it easy to take advantage by registering children in different communities. The couple allegedly received around €2,500 a month in Greek aid to care for their registered children.

Eight of the leads are credible, including four from the United States, says Panagiotis Pardalis, of Smile of the Child. The other credible calls came from Sweden, France, Canada and Poland. DNA tests will be used to definitively prove parental connections, says Pardalis. They will also look at the circumstances under which the parents allegedly lost their child in the first place, whether through kidnapping or abandonment.

Although one article I read said the US is not actively seeking anyone.

Her only known birth certificate was forged and she has no apparent birthmarks or identifying markings other than her fair features. She was in dirty clothes and suffered from numerous skin irritations, including head lice when she was rescued from the camp

.

 

[Kimster]

Please note that we do not verify members as being experts of any cultures.

Having said that, Gitana1 is a verified attorney and her personal information is on file. I also know that she has researched and studied the gypsy culture for over ten years - and I have seen this documentation. If we were in the habit of verifying cultural experts, she would be verified in a heartbeat.

I hope that helps!

 

[time]

Authorities are now trying to ascertain just what Maria’s presence in the camp really means. If she had been kidnapped to be sold or trafficked, she would not have still been in the camp, says Babis Dimitriou, a spokesperson for the Farsala community. More likely, she was being groomed for dancing for money, perhaps eventually for use in the sex trade. Dimitriou says he fears that Maria’s story will result in further backlash against the Roma communities across Europe, who suffer constant discrimination. “It doesn’t reflect on all of us,” he told Greek SKAI.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-case-of-maria-greece-s-fake-roma-child.html

 

[jjenny]

My bad, I see news sources say something similar to this

"The couple had 14 children with them when they were arrested"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-case-of-maria-greece-s-fake-roma-child.html

All the other stories I've seen say they had four children (including Maria), not 14. Even though she had 14 registered to her.

 

[jjenny]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-case-of-maria-greece-s-fake-roma-child.html

Both videos that show her dancing demonstrate she wasn't any good or into dancing at all.

 

[jjenny]

I never wanted Maria in my home, says gipsy father as it emerges mystery child may have been bought for £850

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2470998/Blonde-Angel-Maria-Mystery-child-bought-850.html

The source said: ‘He said in 2009 he was away from home for a few days when he received a phone call from his wife, who said that there was a Bulgarian couple at the home who did not want their child.

‘He said he did not want a child and said, “I don’t want to put a bomb in my house”.’

In a seemingly contradictory statement, Salis has also claimed to know the man who ‘mediated’ the handover of the child.

These people reportedly told so many stories of how they got the child. Another story I just read is that the lawyer for the parents suggests father of Maria was in prison. Then there is yet another story that he was "Canadian." Basically I don't feel I can believe a word they say.

"My clients never talked about Maria's biological father. They think he was in prison," Palavrasa said. "The Bulgarian woman gave my clients the child. My clients adopted her in non-legal way, but they cared for her as if she were their child."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/gypsy-couple-adopted-blond-girl-legal-lawyer/story?id=20638422

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

I think the belief is that many of those children don't actually exist. They probably ffraudulantly registered children for financial purposes. The remaining children that do exist may actually be biologically theirs. MOO.

This. Plus it's quoted in several articles how friends and family claim that Maria was treated better than the couple's actual "biological children". So I'm thinking they may have already discovered that the other children were actually there's and the unaccounted for ones never existed in the first place.

 

[gitana1]

I read she gave many versions of how they got the child. Why not just say the truth?

Gypsies mistrust outsiders and many are trained from childhood to never tell the truth to them. This policy is going to hurt them in this case. They must have done something illegal in connection with this child because you cannot take money for a child and I'm pretty sure either a pimp wanted to get rid of her or a prostitute wanted some drugs or drug money. I just don;t think these particular people would take her in for nothing, because it is clear to me they were disguising her hair color at times, likely to have her blend in, so I don;t think they valued her fairness for begging purposes. (Besides, there are a ton of gorgeous Gypsy kids who can do the job). So, they feel they have to lie about how they got her.

I don't think they are being ignored, just not spot-lighted. I read this:
Police allege the woman claimed to have given birth to six children in less than 10 months, while 10 of the 14 children the couple had registered as their own are unaccounted for.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2470062/Blonde-Angel-Maria-Gypsy-couple-court-abduction-charges.html
but at least I thought I read the remaining three were being DNA checked as well. Maybe I imagined that part. but since both parents are in jail, what would the police have done with the others? Leave them with neighbors or relatives? I think all the children at the camp should be matched to supposed parents, much like Texas did with the polygamist children taken from the Jeffs compound.

I guarantee that not much will happen in relation to the other kids found. They will be either released to the encampment without the need of anyone to prove who they are or they will, indeed, be matched up with their parents but if they are, they'll end up back with another family, begging for money, very quickly.

The authorities know this, and I can tell with the Greek authorities, they can't stand Gypsies, so I doubt they will care much about these kids and do much to change their lives and prevent further trafficking of them. We would need to see an NGO to step in and help.

Truly shocking.. i was going to post in the unidentified but thought maybe wait for the courtw to give there permission for a photo of her before i did.

This scares me.. 1 has escaped.. 1 found how many havent ?

Escaped from trafficking or escaped from Gypsies? Because there is no connection shown between the Dublin girl and Gypsies. But there are thousands of girls trafficked from Eastern Europe to the West and other places. If you want to know more about trafficking, there is an intense documentary out there that shows one side of it called Girl Model. Truly disturbing stuff. I think you can watch it on netflix: http://www.takepart.com/article/2012/09/02/girl-model-ashley-sabin-david-redmon-interview

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/04/160537077/chilling-future-awaits-girl-model-recruits

Here's the trailer: Girl Model - Trailer - YouTube

This isn't even the worst of it. Many people are involved from crime syndicates in all European countries.

 

[gitana1]

These people reportedly told so many stories of how they got the child. Another story I just read is that the lawyer for the parents suggests father of Maria was in prison. Then there is yet another story that he was "Canadian." Basically I don't feel I can believe a word they say.

"My clients never talked about Maria's biological father. They think he was in prison," Palavrasa said. "The Bulgarian woman gave my clients the child. My clients adopted her in non-legal way, but they cared for her as if she were their child."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/gypsy-couple-adopted-blond-girl-legal-lawyer/story?id=20638422

I think the only way to come close to finding out what happened is if the bio-mom steps forward and DNA testing matches her with the mother.

 

[pieper4]

I found Part 1 of the documentary on YouTube. Girl Model Full Movie Part 1 [True HQ] - YouTube I am drawn to documentaries. Hopefully I can find part 2. No Netflix here. Thanks, Gitana1.

 

[IAMME]

The last time I was fingerprinted it was a scan also, but the time before that in a different state for licensing purposes for my job, about three yrs ago it was done with the ink. And it looked exactly like this little girls fingers. So I guess it depends on where its done and if they have the scanner or not yet. Like I said mine was fairly recent within the last few yrs.

I live in a very rural Arkansas county and my husband was fingerprinted in February for concealed carry permit and it was done with ink....

 

[jjenny]

I think the only way to come close to finding out what happened is if the bio-mom steps forward and DNA testing matches her with the mother.

Assuming mother is able to come forward. I am very curious as to what they could be hiding? These people are reportedly giving conflicting stories. They also claim the took her in 2009 when she was a few week old baby, which would make her four. But she is actually between five and six.

"The charity Smile of the Child, which is caring for Maria, who speaks the Roma dialect and a smattering of Greek, disclosed yesterday that medical tests had shown she was aged between five and six years old and was not four years old, as claimed by Mr Salis and Ms Dimopoulou."

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...-charity-gypsy-pair-tells-court-29678771.html

 

[Tugela]

I doubt they are going to find the real parents. She is probably from some village somewhere is Eastern Europe where her disappearance was a local affair that happened years ago and is mostly forgotten.