MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[quibble]

This Fentanyl crisis scares the hell out of me everytime I read about it. I was prescribed the Fentanyl (Duragesic) 75 mg patches for 18 months after back surgeries for several spinal compression fractures many years ago. I remember feeling spacey and very high but not anything like has been in the news regarding so many deaths. The only time I became afraid was when I began using a heating pad on my back. The heat intensified the effect from the patches and I began hallucinating. I called my doctor and he said I’d made a big mistake, he also told me not to get in a hot tub and to take short hot showers while using the patches. I wanted off of them and he had to give me methadone to withdraw. Fentanyl is a horribly horribly dangerous drug.

I use Fentanyl (UK) and am a long term user 37mcgs. My directions inside the packet quite catergorically say: do not use heat where the patch is affixed, do no have a hot bath, do not use a hot shower, do not sun bathe. I just wonder did you have those guidelines at all? Also no alcohol, do not mix Fentanyl with other drugs. I beg to differ I think Fentanyl is a good drug used wisely in accordance with the makers and doctors directions. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I've circled what looks to me like cigarette butts from at least 2 different brands.
View attachment 478670
ETA: there may be more in the photo, particularly a white one to the right of the chair; also, that long white one I did circle may be a joint and not a butt. MOO YMMV

That picture also shows the ladder-like construction of the fence - looks quite climbable, even to me.

IMO.

 

[ElizB]

I don't know about that being in concrete. I've check messages without returning a message to anyone, quite often at night.

Wasn't it said some of the messaging was set up the people knew sending messages knew JW had viewed them? Is that something an iPhone does, my Android doesn't?

iPhone has read receipt. You can turn it on or off. It tells you what time the message was read.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Thanks @Chypre for mentioning it. Made me go watch it.

Thanks, @Forest_Wood for filling in the missing parts for me. I didn't catch that tail end. I want to catch up on the video interviews. Still, I can't shake feeling confused by all the different accounts.

I do think his mother conveyed the limbo state they're all in not having definite answers yet. MOO, she said they weren't "drug addicts" and I'm glad she managed to convey what she meant by that-- that wasn't their type of daily life style. Some family members seem worried about that term. To me, if occasional drug users than that term "addict" does not apply.

(IMO, the term "addict" means you are compelled and strung out on something you have to do continuously, maybe lie, go against your own morals to keep doing whatever, maybe even steal to keep doing whatever is your addiction. That is not the occasional drug user.)

She, and we, do not know if it was drugs. I think the Mom managed to keep an open mind that it may still turn out to be a toxic drug. Yet, she still needed to include none of the three guys could afford to buy any drugs, which implies maybe someone gave / supplied them with the drugs. I do feel the family members need to find someone to blame at this stage of their grieving, and I understand. If it were my loved one, I'd want to know who supplied that deadly drug. She says everyday is different and they feel lost. Prayers for them all.

I didn't catch the part where she said #5 left & everything was fine. Is she feeling he couldn't possibly be the supplier? While JW keeps getting the finger pointing and may also be an uninvolved bystander. MOO, I don't know if anyone did anything on purpose to harm the three men.

If they were supplied a deadly toxic laced-drug unknowingly by the supplier, then I hope it wasn't a close friend that will have to live with that horrible memory & guilt. I do get the feeling the families will push to find out who the supplier was and push for an arrest. Can't blame them-- three young, vital men died.

All MOO and my own thoughts. Sorry, it's such a long post. ​

'None of these men are drug addicts': Mom of dead Kansas City Chiefs fan | NewsNation Prime

Three men were found dead in their friend’s backyard, and two weeks later, we still know very little of their final hours. Jennifer Marquez, David Harrington’s mother, joins "NewsNation Prime" to call for more transparency.

www.newsnationnow.com

I haven't watched that particular video you linked. I tried to post the link for the video I watched but it keeps linking to Banfield's main page. Banfield

I agree that if someone is to blame, I hope that person gets charged. The families (and society) deserves to have justice.

Initially, I was leaning toward #5 being the supplier, however, some of the families are speaking quite highly of him and are pointing fingers at JW, although they can't seem to put their finger on just what he might have done.

It's baffling.

IMO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I use Fentanyl (UK) and am a long term user 37mcgs. My directions inside the packet quite catergorically say: do not use heat where the patch is affixed, do no have a hot bath, do not use a hot shower, do not sun bathe. I just wonder did you have those guidelines at all? Also no alcohol, do not mix Fentanyl with other drugs. I beg to differ I think Fentanyl is a good drug used wisely in accordance with the makers and doctors directions. JMO

I agree, Fentanyl is a good drug when used responsibly as you describe. I don’t remember reading about cautions when used with heat until my doctor told me about it and even then there I don’t remember anything about the hot showers or sunbathing, I do recall mention of hot tubs and heating pads once I more carefully read the directions. Fortunately, I didn’t like the effects and I stopped using them. It was so long ago (early 2000’s), I didn’t even know back then that the Duragesic patches contained Fentanyl until a few years ago when the out-of-control opioid deaths began occurring nationwide and something clicked in my head.

 

[MorningDove]

That picture also shows the ladder-like construction of the fence - looks quite climbable, even to me.

IMO.

Also quite a few bundled wires that go under the door and the faucet seems to have something like plastic around it? Can't quite make it out. Edit: Photos online from rental/realtors show where some of the cords go inside to an outlet that looks like it is sort of been rigged and not inset to the wall. (Not sure if I can link?) If any of the wires are electrical I would surely think that is not up to code. And almost laying on the ground under door could be super dangerous. Just pondering out loud.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

This Fentanyl crisis scares the hell out of me everytime I read about it. I was prescribed the Fentanyl (Duragesic) 75 mg patches for 18 months after back surgeries for several spinal compression fractures many years ago. I remember feeling spacey and very high but not anything like has been in the news regarding so many deaths. The only time I became afraid was when I began using a heating pad on my back. The heat intensified the effect from the patches and I began hallucinating. I called my doctor and he said I’d made a big mistake, he also told me not to get in a hot tub and to take short hot showers while using the patches. I wanted off of them and he had to give me methadone to withdraw. Fentanyl is a horribly horribly dangerous drug.

The patches are timed-release and heat can cause the patch to release the drug too quickly. Applying the heat pad probably caused an overdose! You were really lucky you noticed what was happening and I'm glad you're OK.

No opioids are ever "safe" but the modern synthetic opioids are lethal.

 

[Frostysucker]

In several cases I've followed, the death certificate had "pending" in the column for MoD and CoD (and sometimes for other things - such as whether autopsy was completed).

In the case of missing person Jin Fang (there's a thread here), the DC was filed with a pending CoD

So there are 2 certificates.
The first is a Certificate of Death, and the second is a Death Certificate.
Certificate of death would be the basic information for sole purpose of certifying the person's death. (Like a legal - Jey this person is no longer living, here's your proof.)
Then the Death certificate would be a much more detailed report and this is where you would find other aspects like the findings from toxicology.

I read this:

Forensic autopsies in Missouri

From homicide prosecutions to insurance lawsuits, lawyers in Missouri occasionally require an expert opinion as to the manner and cause of a person’s death. As with any such evidence, the overriding concern is to secure an opinion that is both admissible and persuasive.

news.mobar.org

I had never really thought about this(that there are 2 certificates). I guess in the back of my mind I always thought that 'the certificate' was one, and that it came out whenever everyone was finished with it.

So after reading the article linked above..
I think if something says 'pending' for the cause of death then it would be the initial Certificate of Death (and not the Death Certificate).

**Although I still understood your post of course, I just found this interesting, and I think the terms are used interchangeably more often than not.**

 

[Sundog]

These are 4 known facts and 4 unproven speculations about the 3 dead friends of JW:

1. We know that the deaths of Clayton McGeeney, 36, David Harrington, 37, and Ricky Johnson, 38, in the backyard of JW’s home are hurtful to their families. Condolences.
We do not know if fentanyl is involved or not, until toxicology report and postmortem results are released by Kansas City Police.

2. We knows that scientist JW allowed his dwelling to be used as a lounge for these 3 “friends.”
We speculate that the relentless accusations of crime against JW are resentments driven by the assumption that JW might have allowed his dwelling to be used as a den for doing “anything” dangerous these 3 dead “friends” would not do in their own home along with their children.

3. We know (from Daily Mail dot com interviews) that mystery fifth man AWL has a rap sheet that includes multiple drug offenses from multiple dates at multiple locations.
We do not know if Mr. AWL has provided “anything” dangerous to the 4 party goers, or not.

4. We know (from Daily Mail dot com interviews) that Police told family members they (authorities) had to wait for the bodies to thaw out before they could do an autopsy.
We do not know yet if the individuals were alive but asleep (within minutes) or already dead before their bodies were frozen from 27 F temperature over 44 hours.

(2nd part -- shortened in 3 parts by me)

Do you have a link for the information on "rap sheet" of 5th man? Thanks.

 

[jjleroche]

I haven't read the whole thread, but wouldn't a tox screen tell us if they were drunk or on drugs that killed them? This whole story is weird, it just doesn't make sense to me. I will be curious to see how this ends up. i looked at the picture of the porch area, and they could have just kicked in the window to get in if they were in distress. I don't think that is where they died, outside... JMO I don't know what happened but none of this makes sense to me.

IMO they wouldn't have been in distress. IMO If they had drunk a lot of alcohol, they'd be more likely feeling sleepy/close to passing out.
Having experienced mild hypothermia myself (without drugs or alcohol) I was unable to speak properly, let alone yell, and couldn't do basic movements such as stretching my arms out. The combined effects of heavy alcohol consumption and the cold outside temperature would be deadly IMO.

Alcohol and cold - PubMed

Alcohol is a dominant cause of death in urban hypothermia. Drinking alcohol gives a pleasant feeling of warmth. However, experimental studies on humans during relatively short exposure to moderate cold have given inconsistent results concerning heat balance. Longer exposure to colder...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

Yeah

It's more like they were poisoned

 

[Sundog]

I also work from home and have spent days not leaving the house. But working from home generally means you are attached to your phone/laptop and in fairly constant contact with others.

<snipped for focus>

It depends on the kind of work you do. I also work remotely, but am not in contact with others most of the time. It depends on the nature of your work. I do a lot of research and writing, and a couple of days will regularly go by with no contact from colleagues. We do have a once-a- week scheduled team meeting on zoom, and I have one standing appointment by phone every week at a regular time, but the rest of the week it is up to me to schedule my work time and connect with others by email or phone as needed. I rarely use the phone, most contact is done by email, unless it is too compliciated to communicate when writing an email.

So given the nature of Willis' work, I don't find anything at all odd about his work schedule and/or work activity on Monday and Tuesday.

 

[Simply Southern]

Do you have a link for the information on "rap sheet" of 5th man? Thanks.

Mystery 'fifth man' in the baffling case of dead Chiefs' fans revealed

DailyMail.com can reveal that the 'fifth man' in the case of three Kansas City Chiefs fans found dead outside a rental home is Alex Weamer.Lee

www.dailymail.co.uk

[...]
The 'fifth man', who maintained his close friendships with the victims and Willis from Park Hill High School, has a rap sheet that includes drug offenses, DailyMail.com can disclose.
His criminal record reveals three drugs incidents in 2005 when he was 19 and lived close to his former high school.

He pleaded guilty to two charges of unlawful use of drug paraphernalia and one of possessing up to 35 grams of marijuana, according to records.

Lee was given 20 hours of community service for one of the drug paraphernalia charges, but failed to complete it. He was then sentenced to seven days in jail, records show.

Seven years later while living in Aspen, Colorado, he was charged with a felony for tampering with drug evidence after another man was arrested at a nightclub.

Lee was accused of grabbing two baggies of ecstasy that were dropped on the venue's floor when the accused dealer was seized by police.

He told officers he swallowed the contents of one bag and tried to hide the other, according to a report in the Aspen Daily News.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I've circled what looks to me like cigarette butts from at least 2 different brands.
View attachment 478670
ETA: there may be more in the photo, particularly a white one to the right of the chair; also, that long white one I did circle may be a joint and not a butt. MOO YMMV

I was able to zoom in on the area left of the chair and there are what look to be a dozen or more cigarette butts scattered around. Not only were people smoking out there, but IMO they were smoking a lot.

 

[sunshineray]

These are 4 known facts and 4 unproven speculations about the 3 dead friends of JW:

1. We know that the deaths of Clayton McGeeney, 36, David Harrington, 37, and Ricky Johnson, 38, in the backyard of JW’s home are hurtful to their families. Condolences.
We do not know if fentanyl is involved or not, until toxicology report and postmortem results are released by Kansas City Police.

2. We knows that scientist JW allowed his dwelling to be used as a lounge for these 3 “friends.”
We speculate that the relentless accusations of crime against JW are resentments driven by the assumption that JW might have allowed his dwelling to be used as a den for doing “anything” dangerous these 3 dead “friends” would not do in their own home along with their children.

3. We know (from Daily Mail dot com interviews) that mystery fifth man AWL has a rap sheet that includes multiple drug offenses from multiple dates at multiple locations.
We do not know if Mr. AWL has provided “anything” dangerous to the 4 party goers, or not.

4. We know (from Daily Mail dot com interviews) that Police told family members they (authorities) had to wait for the bodies to thaw out before they could do an autopsy.
We do not know yet if the individuals were alive but asleep (within minutes) or already dead before their bodies were frozen from 27 F temperature over 44 hours.

(2nd part -- shortened in 3 parts by me)

Just to be clear, what that article mentions is the first two offenses, IIRC, were when 5th man was 19 and they involved a small amount of marijuana and paraphernalia. The other was at a late twenty-something age and involved a rave-type drug that became very popular for that age group, at that time period. He tried to hide someone else drugs from the police, charged with tampering with evidence. Hardly what we here on the east coast would call a "rap sheet". JMO

 

[SMK777]

I was able to zoom in on the area left of the chair and there are what look to be a dozen or more cigarette butts scattered around. Not only were people smoking out there, but IMO they were smoking a lot.

View attachment 478781

Thank you for this. Being a smoker myself, unfortunately, I have spent many a family party or event outside in the cold with a couple of other smokers. Thus I suspected this from the get go. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[10ofRods]

Here's the NWS data for Kansas City, MO for January 7:

Kansas City, MO Weather History | Weather Underground

(scroll down for hour by hour data - coldest that afternoon/evening of the 7th as 32F (and that was at midnight - the rest of the afternoon/evening it was 33-37F).

And here's the data for the next day (check out 2 am). It was 33F at 2 am:

Kansas City, MO Weather History | Weather Underground

That's 6 degrees F warmer than 27F, which is why I mention it. The temperature never got to 27 on either the 7th or the 8th during night time hours.

On the 9th, it does get colder. That's the day the frozen bodies were found. Surely they had been out there since after midnight on Sunday (so, early on the 8th).

I mention this because it needs to be 32F or colder for the bodies to be frozen. People obviously die of hypothermia at temperatures far warmer, but having an actual frozen body (as reported in the DM) means colder temperatures. I just want to have the two components separated (how cold it was when the three men apparently went outside vs. how cold it was after they were deceased).

33F is plenty cold - odd that one man apparently didn't take his jacket, plausible that he thought he was only going outside for a quick smoke. 28F is the lowest temp recorded for January 7 - but that's early in the morning, way before the game. From game time onward to midnight, the temps were 37F (around kick-off, Kansas City time) to 32F at midnight. Most of the evening, it was 33-34F - if the men were going in and out of the back yard to smoke (for example), they would have experienced dropping temperatures - not as quickly as if it were 27F though. If they had alcohol on board, they may have perceived those temperatures as warmer (while their bodies' responses to alcohol would have caused them to be more quickly hypothermic). If they did sit in chairs, the lessened mobility would speed up the hypothermia.

Temps of below 32F can cause death by hypothermia in as little as 15 minutes (with each degree of temperature drop speeding that up). If it had really been 27F early AM on January 8, and they were using alcohol - 5-10 minutes would have been enough with major hypothermia symptoms coming on almost immediately (even if they didn't notice).

Dr. Jeff Hersh: The cold, hard facts about hypothermia

Q: Do people really freeze to death? A: Almost 1,000 Americans get hypothermic and die every year; although only in extreme circumstances does their body subsequently freeze. The very old, very young…

www.sj-r.com

The times given in that article are without alcohol. I just want to keep the variables straight in my mind.

 

[sunshineray]

It's more like they were poisoned

It is a poison to humans when ingested in
un-prescribed amounts.

 

[MesquiteO21]

I haven't read the whole thread, but wouldn't a tox screen tell us if they were drunk or on drugs that killed them? This whole story is weird, it just doesn't make sense to me. I will be curious to see how this ends up. i looked at the picture of the porch area, and they could have just kicked in the window to get in if they were in distress. I don't think that is where they died, outside... JMO I don't know what happened but none of this makes sense to me.

i've never felt that they froze to death (all 3 men succumbing to hypothermia in 30 degree weather is far-fetched IMO) but now i'm starting to also believe they didn't even die outside either

 

[MesquiteO21]

He was "at home sporatically" were the words JW's lawyer used in a NewsNation interview with Dan Abrams. IIRC his lawyer has since backpedaled on that and said he meant was out of his bedroom on and off over the two days. Who knows what to believe anymore?

causing confusion and "muddying the waters" is often a defense tactic of the guilty...just saying. JMO