Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024

[Allabouttrial]

She may of been walking to a city bus stop?

That aside, I think your good observation about the possibility of "strangeness" regarding a bus stop claim could be another indicator of the need for a new attorney.

So far, the attorney would appear to need to base his argument of "innocent" on a combination of the following:

- Was in no way walking towards a fight (Purely going home, going to a bus stop of some sort).
- Her social media accounts were hacked (inflammatory MMA post was not made by her).
- She experienced some sort of temporary insanity (Uncontrolled fight or flight syndrome, PTSD from being bullied).

It just seems to be a tall order for a jury to buy. In contrast to the Menendez brothers (PTSD argument rejected), there seems to be far more room to plea bargain in this case.

Yet, he is talking about a trial likely based on a "just trying to get home" and then "PTSD" or "Syndrome" type defense? Statistically, this just does not work.

I may have missed it, but I don't believe her defense attorney has issued any statements to the effect of claiming 'PTSD' or 'just trying to get home'. The only comments I've seen him make directly to media was immediately after the hearing on Monday. Video here:

Fundraiser for teen charged with attacking Kaylee Gain removed

Maurnice DeClue, 15, is charged with attacking Kaylee Gain, 16, who suffered a skull fracture when her head was repeatedly smashed into the ground during a brawl.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Not once does he claim that his client is innocent, he actually declines to answer a few questions instead saying regardless of what's playing out in public, inside the courtroom is where this case will be heard.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Defenses based on temporary insanity and unproven accusations of hacked social media accounts seem like grand standing with a low batting average. Thinking an attorney with a high batting average would be going for: Subdued but effective plea bargaining.

It wasn't her lawyer who made the statement regarding the accused's social media, it was Kaylee's:

---

However, Bryan Kaemmerer, who represents Kaylee's family, was forced to retract the claims made in his prior statement, admitting: 'It appears that the social media posts that were made from an account bearing the name of the accused do not appear to be legitimate in light of additional details that have surfaced about the timing of the accused's arrest, the accused's lack of access to her phone after she was taken into custody, and metadata showing precisely when these posts were first published.'

---

Kaylee Gain, 16, 'does not know why she is in hospital'

Missouri teen Kaylee Gain is able to hold 'limited conversations' but is unable to understand why she is there - as her lawyers are forced to admit posts made by her alleged attacker were fake.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Cryptic]

I may have missed it, but I don't believe her defense attorney has issued any statements to the effect of claiming 'PTSD' or 'just trying to get home'.

You could be right. But I never said the lawyer advanced those claims. Rather, I said that:

- So far, the attorney would appear to need to base his argument of "innocent" on a combination of the following:

He has referred to presenting evidence at Court, which implies a trial. A trial would involve a not guilty plea. At the time I made the post, I took the lawyer's syntax to mean that he intends for his client to plead 'not guilty'.

After reading @Sundog 's post, perhaps he was referring to presenting circumstances (evidence) that would keep his client in a juvenile court?

In the end, however, a possible plea of "not guilty" would likely involve some pretty risky arguments (temporary insanity via syndrome, PTSD etc). I would not want to make them. Rather, plea bargaining seems very attractive.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Please note that I said:

So far, the attorney would appear to need to base his argument of "innocent" on a combination of the following:

He has referred to presenting evidence at Court, which implies a trial. A trial would involve a not guilty plea).

Unless he was referring to presenting circumstances that would keep his client in a juvenile court. But.... I take his syntax to mean that he intends for his client to plead 'not guilty' in either a juvenile court or an adult court.

In my opinion, such an approach "would appear" to be based

Ahhh I see. I was confused as I noticed a few references to his incompetence so figured there may have been something I missed. Sorry, didn't realise it was all hypothetical and based on assumptions.

 

[PrairieWind]

<modsnip> ... the aggressor had a right to be there. She was walking to the bus stop at the end of the school day. The victim had been suspended the day before, for fighting, so she would not have been walking home from school at that time. JMO

The bus stop is two blocks from the school? That doesn't make sense.

 

[SteveP]

You could be right. But I never said the lawyer advanced those claims. Rather, I said that:

- So far, the attorney would appear to need to base his argument of "innocent" on a combination of the following:

He has referred to presenting evidence at Court, which implies a trial. A trial would involve a not guilty plea.

At the time I made the post, I took the lawyer's syntax to mean that he intends for his client to plead 'not guilty'.

After reading @Sundog 's post, perhaps he was referring to presenting circumstances (evidence) that would keep his client in a juvenile court?

In the end, however, a possible plea of "not guilty" would likely involve some pretty risky arguments. I would not want to make them. Rather, plea bargaining seems very attractive. So would realistic presentations to the parents.

Respectfully, MD's attorney does not "need to base his argument of "innocent" on anything. It is not his job to prove that she is innocent. Rather, it is the state's job to prove that she is guilty, which I am sure everyone here must know. JMO

 

[tlcya]

The bus stop is two blocks from the school? That doesn't make sense.

I think some of us have speculated that some area students may take a city bus from a stop near the school. I don't think everyone assumes it is a school bus. I don't know the area or if there are nearby bus stops. But as a HS student in my area I relied upon the city bus as I lived .2 miles too near the school to qualify for the school bus route. JMO

 

[SteveP]

The bus stop is two blocks from the school? That doesn't make sense.

I have no idea how school transportation is there. When I was in school, many years ago, I lived inside a city, and we had two school districts, city schools and county schools. County schools had school busses that picked students up, but city school students had to provide their own transportation, walk, bicycle, drive, or, in my case during junior high school and early high school, walk to a city bus stop, about a block from my home, and take a city bus, that dropped me off about a block from school.

I have no personal familiarity with Hazelwod Schools. I just know that it was reported that MD was walking to the bus stop, after school.

 

[Yuletide]

I think some of us have speculated that some area students may take a city bus from a stop near the school. I don't think everyone assumes it is a school bus. I don't know the area or if there are nearby bus stops. But as a HS student in my area I relied upon the city bus as I lived .2 miles too near the school to qualify for the school bus route. JMO

Back a couple of pages a poster posted some information on the local transit system that seems to deflate that theory. It does not appear there is a city bus in that area, in my opinion. I believe this will go a long way for MD’s intent that day, by finding out the true reason she was on that street that day.

 

[tlcya]

the fight occurred at or near the intersection of Claudine and Norgate drives. That is a residential neighborhood about a 9 minute walk from the school grounds per this map.

the Dunn @ New Halls Ferry Wb 78 bus route picks up near the school and runs right down Dunn (HS location) near Claudine drive per this link

So I feel reasonably certain that at least a few students use the metro rather than a school bus. That said, Claudine and Norgate intersection (fight location) involves walking PAST any bus stops for that route and into a residential neighborhood. I feel pretty confident none of the people present at the fight on March 8th were at or attempting to get to a bus stop. Unless they were attempting to get to the stop that is located at the end of Norgate where it intersects with Usher Rd. a fifteen minute walk from school and there is a much more direct route to reach. MOO others' mileage may vary

 

[Yuletide]

I would also add that I truly believe if MD was on that street at a bus stop waiting to go home, her attorney would be shouting it from the rooftops. My opinion only

 

[tlcya]

Back a couple of pages a poster posted some information on the local transit system that seems to deflate that theory. It does not appear there is a city bus in that area, in my opinion. I believe this will go a long way for MD’s intent that day, by finding out the true reason she was on that street that day.

I found a metro route, see my post above. But I agree with you, I don't believe anyone present was attempting to make use of it. MOO

 

[SteveP]

Back a couple of pages a poster posted some information on the local transit system that seems to deflate that theory. It does not appear there is a city bus in that area, in my opinion. I believe this will go a long way for MD’s intent that day, by finding out the true reason she was on that street that day.

Wouldn't it be at least equally important to find out why KG was on that street that day, at that time? After all, we know she had not been in school a couple blocks away. JMO

 

[Yuletide]

Wouldn't it be at least equally important to find out why KG was on that street that day, at that time? After all, we know she was not in school a couple blocks away. And regardless of why MD was there, if KG had not been, nothing would have happened. JMO

It is extremely important. In my opinion, it is possible for KG to face corrective measures in family court, but none of us really know if she is physically or cognitively able to do so. With the damage done to her skull, it stands to reason that she has no memory of the event. We also don’t know if she would be able to verbalize her thoughts. In the end, I think cell phone records etc will determine the reason that group was at that location.

 

[tlcya]

Wouldn't it be at least equally important to find out why KG was on that street that day, at that time? After all, we know she had not been in school a couple blocks away. JMO

I think we all know or should that neither young lady was there to catch a bus. It is definitely of interest to me why KG was in that location as much as the accused.

Something that did occur to me last night was we don't know what sort of suspension KG was subject to for the fight the previous day. Could she have ben assigned what we called "in house" suspension back in my day? Where you must attend school but are held in a room with other students also assigned "in-house" for some infraction?

The motivations and actions of both girls are of interest to me. But I still feel as I did, that the accused should be tried as an adult because of the seriousness of the injuries she inflicted and any mitigators should be considered before sentencing if found guilty.

 

[STLBlues]

Something that did occur to me last night was we don't know what sort of suspension KG was subject to for the fight the previous day. Could she have ben assigned what we called "in house" suspension back in my day? Where you must attend school but are held in a room with other students also assigned "in-house" for some infraction?

The motivations and actions of both girls are of interest to me. But I still feel as I did, that the accused should be tried as an adult because of the seriousness of the injuries she inflicted and any mitigators should be considered before sentencing if found guilty.

RSBM, excellent point. I know that many of the local St. Louis area schools DO have (what we call) in school suspension ("ISS") as an option. ETA - I'm not 100% sure if the Hazelwood school district uses ISS but, many do.

 

[SteveP]

I think we all know or should that neither young lady was there to catch a bus. It is definitely of interest to me why KG was in that location as much as the accused.

Something that did occur to me last night was we don't know what sort of suspension KG was subject to for the fight the previous day. Could she have ben assigned what we called "in house" suspension back in my day? Where you must attend school but are held in a room with other students also assigned "in-house" for some infraction?

The motivations and actions of both girls are of interest to me. But I still feel as I did, that the accused should be tried as an adult because of the seriousness of the injuries she inflicted and any mitigators should be considered before sentencing if found guilty.

I feel the same, and always have. I just feel that there definitely were several, if not many, mitigating circumstances that should be considered in the penalty phase of any conviction.

 

[Yuletide]

RSBM, excellent point. I know that many of the local St. Louis area schools DO have (what we call) in school suspension ("ISS") as an option. ETA - I'm not 100% sure if the Hazelwood school district uses ISS but, many do.

I know in our local school district that “in school suspensions” are reserved for some offenses, however, fighting is instant suspension off school grounds. I honestly don’t know if that varies from district to district.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It is extremely important. In my opinion, it is possible for KG to face corrective measures in family court, but none of us really know if she is physically or cognitively able to do so. With the damage done to her skull, it stands to reason that she has no memory of the event. We also don’t know if she would be able to verbalize her thoughts. In the end, I think cell phone records etc will determine the reason that group was at that location.

Corrective measure for getting the tar beaten out of her?

 

[SteveP]

RSBM, excellent point. I know that many of the local St. Louis area schools DO have (what we call) in school suspension ("ISS") as an option. ETA - I'm not 100% sure if the Hazelwood school district uses ISS but, many do.

I just did a bit of research, and it appears that short term suspensions of 5-10 days, out of school, may include an option for middle and high school students to attend The Alternative Support Center, at East Hazelwood Opportunity Center during their suspension, but it is 7 blocks from the high school, although it is on the same street. They dismiss at 2:04pm. From the sounds of it, it seems unlikely that KG would have been in attendance there on the day after the fight that got her suspended, but perhaps it was possible. I did not see an option for actual in-school suspension on the school premises. JMO

Short-Term Suspension / Calendar

www.hazelwoodschools.org