UK - Sycamore Gap tree at Hadrian's Wall 'felled overnight', Sept 2023 *arrests*

[Dotta]

"Two men are charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree after the famous wood - featured in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves -​

was cut down overnight in September attack.​

Two men have this afternoon been charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree.

Daniel Graham and Adam Carruthers have today been charged with criminal damage after cutting down the iconic tree in September last year.

They have also been charged with causing criminal damage to Hadrian's Wall, which lies directly next to the tree,

and will appear at South East Northumberland Magistrates' Court on May 15."

Two men are charged over the destruction of historic Sycamore Gap tree

Two men have this afternoon been charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Marantz4250b]

"Two men are charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree after the famous wood - featured in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves -​

was cut down overnight in September attack.​

View attachment 500473

Two men have this afternoon been charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree.

Daniel Graham and Adam Carruthers have today been charged with criminal damage after cutting down the iconic tree in September last year.

They have also been charged with causing criminal damage to Hadrian's Wall, which lies directly next to the tree,

and will appear at South East Northumberland Magistrates' Court on May 15."

Two men are charged over the destruction of historic Sycamore Gap tree

Two men have this afternoon been charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

That's an interesting charge. Criminal damage involves the damage or destruction of "property belinging to another". Damage to the wall from when the tree fell on it seems fine.

However, there is no legal "property" in wild growth. If the tree was intentionally planted then there doesn't seem to be an issue but if it got there because a seed blew there and landed then it's not property so I don't think makes the grade for criminal damage?

Someone with a better knowledge than me I'm sure will chime in.

 

[PrairieWind]

"Two men are charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree after the famous wood - featured in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves -​

was cut down overnight in September attack.​

View attachment 500473

Two men have this afternoon been charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree.

Daniel Graham and Adam Carruthers have today been charged with criminal damage after cutting down the iconic tree in September last year.

They have also been charged with causing criminal damage to Hadrian's Wall, which lies directly next to the tree,

and will appear at South East Northumberland Magistrates' Court on May 15."

Two men are charged over the destruction of historic Sycamore Gap tree

Two men have this afternoon been charged over the destruction of the historic Sycamore Gap tree.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

What punishment are these guys looking at if convicted?

 

[Cedars]

That's an interesting charge. Criminal damage involves the damage or destruction of "property belinging to another". Damage to the wall from when the tree fell on it seems fine.

However, there is no legal "property" in wild growth. If the tree was intentionally planted then there doesn't seem to be an issue but if it got there because a seed blew there and landed then it's not property so I don't think makes the grade for criminal damage?

Someone with a better knowledge than me I'm sure will chime in.

The land is owned by Northumberland National Park, therefore they own everything on the land, however it got there. Sycamore Gap Update • Northumberland National Park

No one can come onto your property and remove anything, claiming it just was there through nature.

Also, I very much doubt there is any land in the UK that isn't legally owned by someone. Right of the commons gives permission for anyone to use it, but there is still some kind of owner.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

That's an interesting charge. Criminal damage involves the damage or destruction of "property belinging to another". Damage to the wall from when the tree fell on it seems fine.

However, there is no legal "property" in wild growth. If the tree was intentionally planted then there doesn't seem to be an issue but if it got there because a seed blew there and landed then it's not property so I don't think makes the grade for criminal damage?

Someone with a better knowledge than me I'm sure will chime in.

This is HISTORCAL HERITAGE of the whole nation!
The Hadrian Wall.

Even I who live far away in another country feel outraged.

What were they thinking?
I despise people who dare to ruin Nature and historical sites - which are under protection.

By the way, in my country nobody can cut down a tree (even in one's garden) without authorities' permission.

Old, valuable and historical trees are under special protection.

And, as the report says,
these 2 vandals are charged.

JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

The land is owned by Northumberland National Park, therefore they own everything on the land, however it got there. Sycamore Gap Update • Northumberland National Park

No one can come onto your property and remove anything, claiming it just was there through nature.

Also, I very much doubt there is any land in the UK that isn't legally owned by someone. Right of the commons gives permission for anyone to use it, but there is still some kind of owner.

JMO

"Ownership" and "property" are not the same thing. Wild growth is not, "property" in law. I may be wrong and it may have changed but that was always the case as far as inwas aware.

No argument that it was in the possession of the national Park but, as I say, legally, there is no "property" in wild growth. Hence, how do they secure a criminal damage conviction?

We aren't talking about removing something, we are talking about damaging something. But, as you mention it, removing wild growth may have its own issues because theft needs to involve property belonging to someone. This is why you could not be convicted of theft for taking a whild animal (such as a rabbit) but you could be for taking a chicken.

Edit; so, yeah, confusing advice out now I've looked - wild animals definitely aren't property but it seems some plants may be....or perhaps not??

 

[Marantz4250b]

This is HISTORCAL HERITAGE of the whole nation!

I agree but I don't see your point, tbh.

If its not legally property then not can't be criminal damage.

 

[RichardKimble]

I agree but I don't see your point, tbh.

If its not legally property then not can't be criminal damage.

If there was a P TO on the tree then it's criminal.

 

[Dave32]

This was described on the BBC news tonight as possibly the most famous tree in the world.
Am I the only person who had never heard of it until it was cut down?

 

[x_files]

This is HISTORCAL HERITAGE of the whole nation!
The Hadrian Wall.

Even I who live far away in another country feel outraged.

What were they thinking?
I despise people who dare to ruin Nature and historical sites - which are under protection.

By the way, in my country nobody can cut down a tree (even in one's garden) without authorities' permission.

Old, valuable and historical trees are under special protection.

And, as the report says,
these 2 vandals are charged.

JMO

Thank you! The tree belongs to the Historical heritages and everyone who loved it!

 

[Cedars]

"Ownership" and "property" are not the same thing. Wild growth is not, "property" in law. I may be wrong and it may have changed but that was always the case as far as inwas aware.

No argument that it was in the possession of the national Park but, as I say, legally, there is no "property" in wild growth. Hence, how do they secure a criminal damage conviction?

We aren't talking about removing something, we are talking about damaging something. But, as you mention it, removing wild growth may have its own issues because theft needs to involve property belonging to someone. This is why you could not be convicted of theft for taking a whild animal (such as a rabbit) but you could be for taking a chicken.

Edit; so, yeah, confusing advice out now I've looked - wild animals definitely aren't property but it seems some plants may be....or perhaps not??

It's not complicated:

"If there is a tree or shrub growing on your land then it is your property,"

Trees: What Every Landlord Needs to Know

It is very important for landlords to be aware of the laws surrounding trees and mindful of the potential disputes and problems that can arise. Here we answer some of the most commonly asked questions about trees on residential land.

srpinventories.co.uk

 

[LadyL]

This is HISTORCAL HERITAGE of the whole nation!
The Hadrian Wall.

Even I who live far away in another country feel outraged.

What were they thinking?
I despise people who dare to ruin Nature and historical sites - which are under protection.

By the way, in my country nobody can cut down a tree (even in one's garden) without authorities' permission.

Old, valuable and historical trees are under special protection.

And, as the report says,
these 2 vandals are charged.

JMO

I'm outraged too. Still. this many months later ... and I'm in Canada

 

[LadyL]

38 and 31 so old enough to know better
didn't they previously arrest an older man and younger teen boy?
were we just speculating? no I'm sure I remember it

 

[investikater]

What punishment are these guys looking at if convicted?

probably a slap on the wrist. People get the tiniest punishments when they torture an animal, I doubt a tree is going to get much more

 

[investikater]

38 and 31 so old enough to know better
didn't they previously arrest an older man and younger teen boy?
were we just speculating? no I'm sure I remember it

Yeah how are these two related to the teenager and the older retired lumberjack who claims he's innocent?

 

[Kaley Smith]

I'm devastated over this senseless act. I'm Northumbrian born but live in Suffolk these days. What on earth made this lad carry this out.

Motive: A power trip, in my opinion.

 

[Luwin]

Sycamore Gap: Man pleads not guilty to cutting down tree

Daniel Graham and Adam Carruthers, both from Cumbria, are accused of damaging the world-famous tree.

www.bbc.co.uk

The criminal damage caused by the felling of the Sycamore Gap tree has been valued at more than £620,000, according to court charges.

Daniel Graham, 38, and Adam Carruthers, 31, both from Carlisle, face Newcastle Magistrates' Court on Wednesday charged with two counts of criminal damage, both to the tree and Hadrian's Wall.

The tree damage was valued at £622,191 and damage to the wall at £1,144.

 

[Dotta]

"Pictured: ​

Construction firm boss ​

who is accused of chopping down the 300-year-old Sycamore Gap tree.​

Dan Graham, 38, has been charged with criminal damage to the iconic tree and Hadrian's Wall in an incident last September.

Graham runs his own small construction business out of a site near Carlisle in Cumbria.

He lives in a caravan by a field with horses and has a number of dogs on his land in the countryside near the city.

The offences are said to have taken place on National Trust property on 28 September last year.

Police confirmed they were the two men in their 30s who were arrested last October and released on bail pending further inquiries."

Pictured: Construction boss accused of chopping down 300-year-old tree

Dan Graham (pictured), 38, has been charged with criminal damage to the iconic tree and Hadrian's Wall in an incident last September.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"Two men, 31 and 38, who 'chopped down historic Sycamore Gap tree from Robin Hood movie' to appear in court charged with criminal damage.​

Northumbria Police said the men were arrested in October in connection with the incident and had been on bail since that date.

The much photographed tree, was chopped down in the dead of night in September last year,
causing a national outrage.

It was found with its upper section lying across the historic Roman barrier,
which is a World Heritage Site,
after being targeted in a
'malicious act of vandalism'.

The pair are charged with criminal damage to property of a value over £5,000, namely
'without lawful excuse, damaged a sycamore tree to the value of £622,191 belonging to the National Trust'.

They face a second charge of criminal damage to property valued under £5,000,
namely Hadrian's Wall,
with the damage assessed to the Unesco World Heritage Site as being £1,144."

Two men to appear in court charged with damage of Sycamore Gap tree

Daniel Graham, 38, and Adam Carruthers, 31, will face Newcastle Magistrates' Court on Wednesday afternoon.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Luwin]

Sycamore Gap: Man pleads not guilty to cutting down tree

Daniel Graham and Adam Carruthers, both from Cumbria, are accused of damaging the world-famous tree.

www.bbc.co.uk

A man has pleaded not guilty to chopping down the world-famous Sycamore Gap tree.

Daniel Graham, 38, and Adam Carruthers, 31, were charged with criminal damage both to the tree and to Hadrian's Wall in Northumberland.

Mr Graham, of Carlisle, entered pleas of not guilty to both charges at Newcastle Crown Court. Mr Carruthers, of Wigton, Cumbria, entered no plea.