PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

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There is no suggestion that RFG is a hobo, or did not have sufficient assets to sustain himself indefinitely. That is one of the important points that has come up recently. There are assets that are unaccounted for, so the possibility remains and gets stronger.

I do believe Sloane, as he was RFG's closest friend of more than a decade prior to the disappearance.

Obviously, however, there were problems with some of the people (plural) RFG chose to be on staff. Not wanting to be around to answer questions about those could easily be part of the motivation for a voluntary departure. It is part of the broader category of "not wanting to be the ex-DA."

The opinion that Lara Gricar receiving Ray's assets is a good reason or motivation to disappear and then the opinion that there are missing assets, unaccounted for cannot coincide with one another. Both are baseless opinions. Can't have it both ways.

No one knows what Ray Gricar had in the way of expenses. Just because some expenses are known doesn't mean anyone knows them all. No one on this forum knows what type of investments Ray Gricar made either.

It's sad to read here yet another degrading shot at Ray's character. Now it's his chosen staff and their problems.
 
As respectfully as I am able to couch this question, am I to assume from what I am seeing posted that there is only one "approved" version of what happened to Ray and that all other opinions or theories are wrong, inappropriate or disrespectful?
 
As respectfully as I am able to couch this question, am I to assume from what I am seeing posted that there is only one "approved" version of what happened to Ray and that all other opinions or theories are wrong, inappropriate or disrespectful?

Not at all and further more I appear to be in the minority (on this site) regarding my belief of foul play. My posts are my opinion and of course I do not have the final answer on what happened to Ray Gricar, LE does.

I do/will defend a public servants character, such as Ray's, until I see actual PROOF that he let Sandusky off the hook, that he ran a corrupt office, that he would cheat on this girlfriend, that he would leave his employer, family, and friends in a lurch and otherwise be a completely different person than what I have been told by his friends and family. There is no basis for the walkaway path in my opinion. I have been reading a lot her and the aforementioned things have been floated here, pushed here, and stated as factual information when it really only stems from one source. It goes way beyond simply taking a look at an alternative theory.

I don't ask that anyone put belief in my theories and/or opinions however because Ray Gricar served his community for years, made the streets safer for families, and held the letter of the law I will respect him. To suggest that he voluntarily disappeared is not the person, most that knew him, recognize. When you have so little to go on you have trust what the closest people to him say.

It's a free country and everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions but remember that door swings both ways.

Trackergd you seem to be very intelligent but I do believe you have some catching up to do in this case. That is my personal opinion as well and by no means is a negative comment to you.

God Bless
 
The opinion that Lara Gricar receiving Ray's assets is a good reason or motivation to disappear and then the opinion that there are missing assets, unaccounted for cannot coincide with one another. Both are baseless opinions. Can't have it both ways.

No one knows what Ray Gricar had in the way of expenses. Just because some expenses are known doesn't mean anyone knows them all. No one on this forum knows what type of investments Ray Gricar made either.

They are twwo very different things, Ray Gricar's pension and his assets. RFG's assets, which are known to be less than $25,000, are extremely low for a man making more than $115,000 per year in the four years prior to his disappearance.

LG received those, but also received a lump sum of his pension, plus any life insurance. Those are not assets.

To explain the difference, I, for example have life insurance. I cannot collect it, or spend it, even though my heirs will collect it. While working, I had a pension, but I couldn't spend though my heirs would collect it. These things are very different than assets.

It's sad to read here yet another degrading shot at Ray's character. Now it's his chosen staff and their problems.

Like this one?

I don't think using a drug addicts opinion of what happened to RG is a good example at all. I also don't believe RG went off to be some hobo.

Sloane was both a long term Assistant District Attorney (about 13 years prior to his disappearance), hired by RFG, along with a close friend. It cannot be denied that he plead guilty to selling marijuana, as this has cited numerous times.

Likewise we have another ADA, LM, also a Gricar hire (about 5 years), that resigned after a "sexting" scandal involving a defendant's girlfriend: http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_ba2b4548-5051-5752-801c-8bf42e78e386.html This actually prompted an investigation by the AG's Office (MTM correctly referred it to them), though there was no criminality found.

There were some potential problems with staff. RFG, had be been sitting around, would have been badgered about these things. There would have been questions about who knew what when.

In that case, RFG might not have wanted to be "the ex-DA." Certainly, we are aware that at least one former ADA was called before the grand jury in the Sandusky case. She said, "The grand jury experience was one of the more negative experiences in my life."
http://www.yardbird.com/joe_paterno_takes_the_fall.htm#sthash.QeRaEHo7.dpuf

She said that, even though she had minimal involvement in the case, and possibly favored prosecution, or even a greater investigation, at the time.

We also saw MTM being involved in that case, for just the decision (the correct one) to send the case out to the AG's Office. There was no question of MTM acting improperly, but he was still involved.

Now, I would not expect that "not wanting to be the ex-DA" to be the sole motive for RFG to leave voluntarily, or even the primary one, but clearly, it might be a motive. Even if RFG had no or minimal knowledge of these things, he'd still be forced back to deal with them. In this case, we have 20 years when RFG was in charge; that is 20 years worth of both case and personnel decisions.
 
Snipped a bit.

Not at all and further more I appear to be in the minority (on this site) regarding my belief of foul play. My posts are my opinion and of course I do not have the final answer on what happened to Ray Gricar, LE does.

I doubt if LE does have the answer.

I do/will defend a public servants character, such as Ray's, until I see actual PROOF that he let Sandusky off the hook, that he ran a corrupt office, that he would cheat on this girlfriend, that he would leave his employer, family, and friends in a lurch and otherwise be a completely different person than what I have been told by his friends and family.

Well, RFG did let Sandusky "off the hook." He did not prosecute Sandusky in 1998. We don't know why he left Sandusky "off the hook." I am still not seeing any evidence of anything illegal or unethical, but I have no doubt that he would been called before the grand jury, because, well, he was "the ex-DA."

While there were some suggestions, from the "Hells Angle" that RFG ran a "corrupt office," there is still no suggestion that he did. I will admit that some of the scenarios I've seen about a "clandestine meeting," do lend themselves to that, quite easily; perhaps those people "pushing" those should realize that. The financial data, so far, does not.

As to some people that RFG hired having legal/ethics problems, well, that is documented. To deny it seems to be counterproductive.
 
This is an excerpt of Bob Buehner's letter regarding the RFG investigation, dated June 3, 2008. It was published at the time:

As you may recall, Ray was clearly seen by several witnesses in Lewisburg, PA on Friday, April 15, 2005, standing by his Mini Cooper by the park near the Lewisburg River Bridge. Those witnesses indicated that it appeared he was waiting for someone and even moved his car.

There is an additional report that places Ray at an antique mall — The Street of Shops one block away from the first location on Saturday, April 16, 2005 in the morning time. One witness was Craig Bennett, owner of the antique mail, who is a highly credible individual. It was reported that he was seen with or talking to a female and that those two could have been together. This scenario begs the obvious question: where did Ray spend Friday night? I do not believe that Ray would, if he were staying in a nearby hotel/motel with a female, register in his own name. This is because he was already in a serious relationship with Patty Fornicola and did not return home to her in Bellefonte on April 15, 2005.

It is my understanding that there is a pretty clear description of the female seen in Ray's presence on Saturday, April 16, 2005.

One method of furthering this investigation would be to canvas every lodging establishment within a certain radius -- 30 miles -- and obtain the names of all female registrants name. Experience tells me that mostly men are registrants. Then, taking each female name, investigators would run a PennDOT picture check, looking for females bearing a resemblance to the woman seen with Ray on April 16, 2005.


Now, he went on to say: Ray was an honorable and decent man.

I don't find any dishonor, indecency, or disparagement in suggesting that there is at least the possibility that RFG was in Lewisburg, and spent the night there, or in the surrounding area, with a woman. Individuals are free to form their own opinions regarding this, and I will admit that BB has made some comments that I wouldn't have made, publicly.
 
Though I haven't followed this case as closely as others I am of the opinion that Gricar walked away for some reason. Not sure what reason ...could be for another woman, or to protect himself and/or loved ones from something...

He may have led a double life. Lots of men do this and women too.

Not trying to say he was a bad guy just that good people can make bad choices or get caught up in bad things sometimes due to fear, lust, greed....

Has the Hell's Angels claim been disproven?
 
Though I haven't followed this case as closely as others I am of the opinion that Gricar walked away for some reason. Not sure what reason ...could be for another woman, or to protect himself and/or loved ones from something...

He may have led a double life. Lots of men do this and women too.

Not trying to say he was a bad guy just that good people can make bad choices or get caught up in bad things sometimes due to fear, lust, greed....

Has the Hell's Angels claim been disproven?

J.J. in Phila will answer all your questions
 
This is an excerpt of Bob Buehner's letter regarding the RFG investigation, dated June 3, 2008. It was published at the time:

As you may recall, Ray was clearly seen by several witnesses in Lewisburg, PA on Friday, April 15, 2005, standing by his Mini Cooper by the park near the Lewisburg River Bridge. Those witnesses indicated that it appeared he was waiting for someone and even moved his car.

There is an additional report that places Ray at an antique mall — The Street of Shops one block away from the first location on Saturday, April 16, 2005 in the morning time. One witness was Craig Bennett, owner of the antique mail, who is a highly credible individual. It was reported that he was seen with or talking to a female and that those two could have been together. This scenario begs the obvious question: where did Ray spend Friday night? I do not believe that Ray would, if he were staying in a nearby hotel/motel with a female, register in his own name. This is because he was already in a serious relationship with Patty Fornicola and did not return home to her in Bellefonte on April 15, 2005.

It is my understanding that there is a pretty clear description of the female seen in Ray's presence on Saturday, April 16, 2005.

One method of furthering this investigation would be to canvas every lodging establishment within a certain radius -- 30 miles -- and obtain the names of all female registrants name. Experience tells me that mostly men are registrants. Then, taking each female name, investigators would run a PennDOT picture check, looking for females bearing a resemblance to the woman seen with Ray on April 16, 2005.


Now, he went on to say: Ray was an honorable and decent man.

I don't find any dishonor, indecency, or disparagement in suggesting that there is at least the possibility that RFG was in Lewisburg, and spent the night there, or in the surrounding area, with a woman. Individuals are free to form their own opinions regarding this, and I will admit that BB has made some comments that I wouldn't have made, publicly.

Can you provide a link please?
 
Though I haven't followed this case as closely as others I am of the opinion that Gricar walked away for some reason. Not sure what reason ...could be for another woman, or to protect himself and/or loved ones from something...

He may have led a double life. Lots of men do this and women too.

Not trying to say he was a bad guy just that good people can make bad choices or get caught up in bad things sometimes due to fear, lust, greed....

Has the Hell's Angels claim been disproven?

The police said that the Hell's Angels claim was about 1% likely.

So far, I have seen no evidence of a "double life." He was exceptionally private, however.

While RFG was seen with a woman in Lewisburg on 4/15/05 by several witnesses, no woman that he knew or that was from the area is unaccounted for. It is a strong argument against his "running off" with another woman.

I've looked at as many cases RFG handled as I can; he was generally a good, and aggressive prosecutor. Sandusky seems to be an exception to that.

Thanks for popping in. :)
 
June 3, 2008

Honorable Michael T. Madeira
District Attorney of Centre County
Centre County Courthouse
Bellefonte, PA 16823

Honorable D. Peter Johnson
District Attorney of Union County
Union County Courthouse
103 South 2" Street
Lewisburg, PA 17837

Re: Disappearance of our colleague Ray Gricar

Dear Mike and Pete:

It has been over three years since our friend and colleague disappeared -- literally vanished from Earth.

I write to both of you because each of your counties has some involvement in the investigation of Ray's disappearance.

There are three separate matters of serious importance which I would like to call to your attention.

First, there is the matter of the hard drive of Ray’s laptop found in the Susquehanna River at Lewisburg within or near Union County’s boundary. Media reports have indicated that law enforcement officials were unable to recover any data from the hard drive. I have recently come across information relating to a hard drive that was on the Space Shuttle Columbia which tragically disintegrated on reentry on February 1, 2003. A Seagate hard drive from Columbia was found burned almost beyond recognition as part of the debris. The hard drive was sent to Kroll Ontrack, Inc. whose corporate headquarters is 9023 Columbia Road, Eden Park, MN 55347 (phone number is 1-800-347-6105). Kroll’s computer forensic investigators were able to retrieve almost 100% of the data stored on the hard drive despite it being in incredibly poor condition. This was disclosed in the April, 2008 edition of Physical Review E Journal.

It would seem obvious that the hard drive should be submitted forthwith to Kroll for testing. Any information on the hard drive should be highly valuable.

Second, hotel/motel records are required to be kept for three years pursuant to Pennsylvania law. 37 P.S. Section 105(a) sets forth “The innkeeper of a lodging establishment shall maintain for a period of three years a guest register which shows the name residence, date of arrival and departure of guests of the lodging establishment.”

As you may recall, Ray was clearly seen by several witnesses in Lewisburg, PA on Friday, April 15, 2005, standing by his Mini Cooper by the park near the Lewisburg River Bridge. Those witnesses indicated that it appeared he was waiting for someone and even moved his car.

There is an additional report that places Ray at an antique mall — The Street of Shops one block away from the first location on Saturday, April 16, 2005 in the morning time. One witness was Craig Bennett, owner of the antique mail, who is a highly credible individual. It was reported that he was seen with or talking to a female and that those two could have been together. This scenario begs the obvious question: where did Ray spend Friday night? I do not believe that Ray would, if he were staying in a nearby hotel/motel with a female, register in his own name. This is because he was already in a serious relationship with Patty Fornicola and did not return home to her in Bellefonte on April 15, 2005.

It is my understanding that there is a pretty clear description of the female seen in Ray's presence on Saturday, April 16, 2005.

One method of furthering this investigation would be to canvas every lodging establishment within a certain radius -- 30 miles -- and obtain the names of all female registrants name. Experience tells me that mostly men are registrants. Then, taking each female name, investigators would run a PennDOT picture check, looking for females bearing a resemblance to the woman seen with Ray on April 16, 2005.

This would require manpower and a serious commitment by investigators to work diligently to solve this mystery. This should cause a discussion about forming a “Gricar task force” with involvement by various law enforcement agencies. However, the three years is up and such records may soon be destroyed!

Third, there is a witness who saw Ray traveling on U.S. Route 15 on Friday afternoon April 15, 2005. This is a person who contacted former District Attorney Ted McKnight right after Ray’s disappearance. Ted advised this individual to contact Bellefonte Police Department. Ted related this to me in a conversation right after the disappearance. This individual is a Lock Haven resident familiar with Ray because of reading the Centre Daily Times. This person was traveling from Lock Haven to Harrisburg for a specific purpose that day and noticed the Mini Cooper with Ray driving it.

I do not believe this person has been interviewed nor have there been any media reports of this sighting. Someone should contact Ted McKnight at his home address and phone number in Lock Haven to obtain that individual's name so he can be seriously interviewed. This would conflict with the so called “courthouse sightings” of Ray on that day.

I simply want to know what happened to my friend and colleague Ray Gricar. Starting with my first year as Montour County D.A. in 1992, we became good friends. I enjoyed teasing him about getting me Penn State football tickets. He enjoyed teasing me about my short stature when we played volleyball together at PDAA summer meetings. Ray was an honorable and decent man. We need to do everything we can to solve his disappearance -- for his family, his loved ones, his colleagues and friends, the law enforcement community and the citizens of our Commonwealth.

Would you kindly advise me on the matters raised herein? I remain

Very truly,

Robert W. Buehner, Jr.
 
The police said that the Hell's Angels claim was about 1% likely.

So far, I have seen no evidence of a "double life." He was exceptionally private, however.

While RFG was seen with a woman in Lewisburg on 4/15/05 by several witnesses, no woman that he knew or that was from the area is unaccounted for. It is a strong argument against his "running off" with another woman.

I've looked at as many cases RFG handled as I can; he was generally a good, and aggressive prosecutor. Sandusky seems to be an exception to that.

Thanks for popping in. :)

BBM Do you think this could be a motive for walkaway?
 

July 2, 2008
The Honorable Robert W. Buehner, Jr.
District Attorney of Montour County
Montour County Courthouse
29 Mill Street
Danville, PA 17821

Dear District Attorney Buehner:
I write to you today to respond to the allegations that you have raised against the Office of Attorney General during your various news appearances with respect to the disappearance of District Attorney Ray Gricar.
As an elected District Attorney you should be aware that the authority of my office is clearly set forth in the Commonwealth Attorneys Act, 71 P.S. §732-101 et seq. Within this Act, §732-205 provides the circumstances under which I can prosecute violations of criminal law.
There are two sections which pertain to the matter at hand: First, §732-205(3) states that I may conduct a prosecution upon the request of a district attorney who lacks the resources to conduct an adequate criminal investigation or prosecution, or upon the request of a district attorney who represents that there is potential for an actual or apparent conflict of interest on the part of the district attorney or his office. As you are aware, District Attorney Madeira, his predecessor, Acting District Attorney Smith and District Attorney Johnson have not submitted a request pursuant to this section. Further, there are no indications that there is legal basis to do so.
Under §732-205(4), the Attorney General may petition the court having jurisdiction over any criminal proceeding to permit the Attorney General to supersede the district attorney in order to prosecute a criminal action or to institute criminal proceedings. It is important to note that such supersession may only be ordered if the Attorney General establishes by a preponderance of the evidence that the district attorney failed or refused to prosecute and such failure or refusal constitutes an abuse of discretion. If you are suggesting that I file such a petition, you are in fact alleging that District Attorney Madeira, Acting District Attorney Smith or District Attorney Johnson abused their discretion by consciously choosing not to investigate the disappearance of Ray Gricar. Clearly, this is not the case.
Since the time of District Attorney Gricar’s disappearance, District Attorney Madeira, Acting District Attorney Smith, and District Attorney Johnson vigorously pursued the matter working in cooperation with the Bellefonte Police. the Pennsylvania State Police and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Furthermore, as you know I immediately offered the services of this office and our airplane to aid in the search for Ray Gricar. Our continuing offer of assistance is well known to District Attorney Madeira and District Attorney Johnson.
Throughout my tenure as Attorney General, I have always sought to respect the primary jurisdiction of the District Attorneys by assisting and complementing their efforts. What you have suggested is that I go beyond such assistance and assume the control of an investigation in express violation of the Commonwealth Attorneys Act. It is disheartening that you chose to convey your thoughts through a public venue instead oftaking a moment to call me or meet with me regarding this most serious matter.
Should you wish to genuinely discuss the substance of this matter, I would be more than happy to speak with you directly.
Sincerely.
Tom Corbett
Attorney General
cc: Honorable Gary F. Dobias, President, Pennsylvania District Attorneys Association
Honorable Bradley H. Foulk, District Attorney, Erie County
Honorable Michael T. Madeira, District Attorney, Centre County
Honorable D. Peter Johnson, District Attorney, Union County
 
BBM Do you think this could be a motive for walkaway?

With what is out there, so far, not in and of itself.

RFG may, however, not wanted to spend his retirement answering questions about previous activities; he may have wanted to make a clean break from is official life. I call it not wanting to be "the ex-DA." There were obviously some questionable activities that his then staff became involved. He handled cases for 20 years, arguing many personally. That could have been a motive, or one of the motives, for leaving.
 
Just a note on the letters. Both were published in media at the time and, while they are no longer on line, they may be in the payed archives of the CDT.

I did confirm that this was the BB wrote with him.
 
I posted this a while back but it never really had a response:

1. Assume that RFG's disappearance was not voluntary, i.e. it was not walkaway or suicide.

We would then have RFG planning to be in Lewisburg, probably at a certain time, not having any notes on the trip, and telling neither his girlfriend, closest friends, or coworkers the purpose of the trip. Further, if case related, he makes an excuse that he's taking the day off, playing "hooky."

Why would he do that?

This is a bit of an expansion of this, but assume it separately.

2. Assume that RFG's disappearance was not voluntary, i.e. it was not walkaway or suicide, like #1. Assume also that he was there on the morning of 4/16/05 and not under duress.

Why wouldn't he phone home? Where did he spend the night?

Now, I'm not saying that I believe either of these comments are correct, but for the sake of argument assume that they are, i.e. not voluntary in #1, not voluntary and alive on the morning of 4/16/05 in #2.
 
I posted this a while back but it never really had a response:

1. Assume that RFG's disappearance was not voluntary, i.e. it was not walkaway or suicide.

We would then have RFG planning to be in Lewisburg, probably at a certain time, not having any notes on the trip, and telling neither his girlfriend, closest friends, or coworkers the purpose of the trip. Further, if case related, he makes an excuse that he's taking the day off, playing "hooky."

Why would he do that?

There is NO publically known evidence or information available that RG planned to be in Lewisburg on 4/15/2005 at a certain time. None. If you are using the map generated on his work computer for directions to Lewisburg as evidence to make this assumption then in my opinion its a JUMP to a conclusion to support your theory.

I have stated several alternative explanations regarding the map that have been chosen to be ignored.

Now for the sake of argument lets suppose RG DID generate that map recent to his disappearance and it was time stamped as such. Then to me that in itself is a note of sorts...a clue.
 
There is NO publically known evidence or information available that RG planned to be in Lewisburg on 4/15/2005 at a certain time. None. If you are using the map generated on his work computer for directions to Lewisburg as evidence to make this assumption then in my opinion its a JUMP to a conclusion to support your theory.

Well first it is not "my theory."

Secondly, we do have the map drawn to Lewisburg on RFG's password protected computer and we do know that the call was made close to Centre Hall, because it was tracked by multiple towers. The time of the Centre Hall witness has not been release publicly.

I have stated several alternative explanations regarding the map that have been chosen to be ignored.

It was found when Bellefonte checked it the computer, I believe that weekend. That would indicate a very recent search.

Now for the sake of argument lets suppose RG DID generate that map recent to his disappearance and it was time stamped as such. Then to me that in itself is a note of sorts...a clue.

Okay, why doesn't RFG print the map? Why doesn't he leave a note? That goes back to the first question.
 
Well first it is not "my theory."

Secondly, we do have the map drawn to Lewisburg on RFG's password protected computer and we do know that the call was made close to Centre Hall, because it was tracked by multiple towers. The time of the Centre Hall witness has not been release publicly.



It was found when Bellefonte checked it the computer, I believe that weekend. That would indicate a very recent search.



Okay, why doesn't RFG print the map? Why doesn't he leave a note? That goes back to the first question.

It absolutely IS YOUR theory that the map was generated "recently" and you have argued it, written blogs about it, and posted several posts about it. I have not seen anyone else reporting this or supporting it.

This in my opinion, is one of many assumptions or jumps to conclusion for which many have been posted. Until LE comes out and says that "Yes, the map was generated recently to Gricar's disappearance" then it is your theory and assumption. I can't put it any simpler than that.

Making assumptions as this and stating them as a fact in my opinion severely hinders this case and discussion here.

Your basis for stating the map was generated recently as a fact is that LE found the directions rather quickly? Really? Ugh.

We all want to find out what happened to Ray Gricar. We all have our theories. What we don't have is the luxury of putting squares into round holes to fit these theories. That is an injustice to Ray and his family. Let's stick to the real facts shall we?
 
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