Oscar Pistorius Defense

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cottonweaver said:
Very interesting analysis on the three factors, thanks.

So do you think all the guff about him feeling he was heading into an exciting new phase was his PR spin/delusion? (I need to find a link to that article which I read months ago.)
Plus, totally accept he was already past his prime already in 2013 but don't you think he was confident he could build on his lucrative celebrity, charity endeavours etc and carve out a new career extending the national hero profile?
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Oops…sorry cotton… I missed your reply

I believe that OP had opportunities in PR/etc… but my guess is that he didn't want any of that…. he was not at all a PR-type of person… you can fake stuff on occasion for interviews, journalists and sponsors… but it's a very different thing to envision yourself faking it for the rest of your life by taking interest in things that you care nothing about… OP wanted to compete and win… that was his M.O.

Did OP support any charities ?

I believe OP stained his reputation when he said on International TV that the only reason he came in second place in the 200m was because the Brazilian had an unfair advantage from prosthetics that were longer than his !!!

Talk about being a sore looser… people got an unrehearsed, spontaneous glimpse into OP's soul….an what they saw was very ugly !
 
Hi friends :wave: ---- having a rare day off and checking in with you all. I am so glad to see constructive discussion is still happening while we wait for the accused to finish his mental eval.
 
seattlechiquita said:
Hi friends :wave: ---- having a rare day off and checking in with you all. I am so glad to see constructive discussion is still happening while we wait for the accused to finish his mental eval.
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Hi chiquita !

It's not easy to achieve the 'constructive' part…. so much as already been said… but it tends to bring out some lateral out-of-the-box thinking !
 
cottonweaver said:
Very interesting analysis on the three factors, thanks.

So do you think all the guff about him feeling he was heading into an exciting new phase was his PR spin/delusion? (I need to find a link to that article which I read months ago.)
Plus, totally accept he was already past his prime already in 2013 but don't you think he was confident he could build on his lucrative celebrity, charity endeavours etc and carve out a new career extending the national hero profile?
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BBM: I think he could have milked that for a looooong time, however long he wanted. Being second to Mandela in popularity in SA, he had the world by the tail.

I think OP will be a psychological study for years to come.
 
AJ_DS,

Great to have you onboard! Love your insights and input. Hope you'll stay put.

Random thoughts...

I agree that whatever happened that night was the straw that broke the camel's back. The cosmic tumblers tragically aligned that night.

Re-watching Nel's cross-examination, this evening, I was again astounded by the depth of OP's immaturity. I feel like OP is most "himself," most "real" during a lengthy soliloquy (Friday, April 11, 2014) in which he variously describes Quinton van der Burgh, Kyalami racetrack, Samantha Taylor, Sun City, Marc Batchelor, and The Hawks. He sounds like he's in 7th grade (US middle school, 12-13 years old) - a sad, horrifying spin on Tom Hank's character in the movie, Big.

Additionally, I continue to wonder about possible physical ramifications stemming from that boat accident. I have a number of friends who are MDs and PhDs specializing in brain injuries who don't discount the possibility. I'll be interested to see whether anything comes up about it from his mental health eval.
 
AJ_DS said:
Oops…sorry cotton… I missed your reply

I believe that OP had opportunities in PR/etc… but my guess is that he didn't want any of that…. he was not at all a PR-type of person… you can fake stuff on occasion for interviews, journalists and sponsors… but it's a very different thing to envision yourself faking it for the rest of your life by taking interest in things that you care nothing about… OP wanted to compete and win… that was his M.O.
...
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Really interesting... a lifetime of "faking it". I never thought about it that way. Sounds like a nightmare to me.

So, what's one thing I don't want anyone here to know? How clueless I am about sports.

Until OP came on the scene, I had no idea that the Paralympics weren't part of the Special Olympics. I assumed they were.

If I'm not the only one in the world to have made that mistake, what additional motivators drove OP to compete against able-bodied atheletes?
 
ColonelMustard said:
Really interesting... a lifetime of "faking it". I never thought about it that way. Sounds like a nightmare to me.

So, what's one thing I don't want anyone here to know? How clueless I am about sports.

Until OP came on the scene, I had no idea that the Paralympics weren't part of the Special Olympics. I assumed they were.

If I'm not the only one in the world to have made that mistake, what additional motivators drove OP to compete against able-bodied atheletes?
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Probably sponsers like Nike.
Imo it was pretty much a publicity stunt. I also think his looks played into it as well, also that he came from South Africa which was another political statement.
South Africa was excluded from the Olympic games from 1964 to 1988 due to apartheid. Politics unfortunately do play into the games, not the athletes themselves, but the political leaders and the game officials. jmo
 
In OP's version, he shot when he heard the magazine rack move. Since the magazine rack was at the back wall of the toilet, and only Reeva could have moved it, Reeva would have been at the ***back*** of the toilet when shot.

But the pathologists and other experts say that she would have been at the ***front*** of the toilet, near the door. That includes some of the defence experts.

That seems like a major hole in OP version. His version puts her at the back of the toilet, but the evidence puts her at the front. If she was at the front, what noise could he have heard?

I don't recall Nel bringing that point up... Did he?

Have other forum members mentioned this point?
 
Hatfield said:
I havent commented in awhile.

I enjoy everyones opinions and would like to reply very respectively to this post since you did touch on some things I agree with but also disagree with.

I agree it was probably a culmination of many things involving OPs inner emotional turmoil that brought him to the point of using his gun on her, but I do think it was an argument/fight he had with her and he "lost it" during that argument.

It has been documented that OP had temper issues. There is no debate he had serious temper/anger issues based on previous examples of him losing his temper in public. So I do not think it is far fetched that a bad fight with Reeva made him lose his temper to the point he just decided to off-her.

Combine his self-views with people around him that supported his self-higher view of himself which was higher than reality as he became less prominant, and he most likely felt he could literally get away with murder.
I honestly think that during the fight he thought through the aftermath and felt he would have people around him to get him out of any trouble.

Lets look at who he immediately called after shooting her. He called his personal friends. He expected them to jump right in and help him devise a way to get out of any trouble.

The points you made towards the end are valid, however, those issues he was dealiing with regarding his career are nothing that any one of us also deal with as we get older and realize we are going to be phased out of our normal career and be forced into retirement of some sort. So I am not going to ever feel sorry for him or cry a river for him because he should have been able to deal with the changes that were coming regarding his career. Those were NORMAL issues. The only thing abnormal was how he dealt with them and the fact he still had much more opportunity than most all of us.
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BB1 I totally agree. We do know he had had a big disappointment sometime that day and we have pondered what it may have been. Reeva suggested he might like to see his friends or family, rather than her, that evening and I am guessing that she perceived the problem as emotionally quite important to OP. From her comments to him it seemed probably financial loss. Had he lost a sponsorship or perhaps have been dropped from the SA team? He certainly was no longer at the top of his sport. That could have been hard for him, ie loss of income AND status. Was it enough to put him in a "black" mood that evening. Or did Reeva tell him of the kiss that she thought was going to be televised very soon. We know he was intensely jealous.

BB2 I totally agree again. It seems under duress OP loses his cool very easily and we have plenty of evidence for that. We know he is likely to shoot off a gun when stressed (shooting through the car sunroof when angered). He quite obviously knows right from wrong but seems not to have the self control to conduct himself appropriately. It looks as though he went on an agry rampage that night and totally flipped?

The outcome of the mental assessment will be interesting but I am not sure that without confinement the medics will get a full picture. However, I do think he is going to struggle hard with his story and, in effect, he will be interrogated time and again about what happened that night. Given he has now has promoted several versions of his alibi, on which one will he settle?

For me there are so many holes in his evidence, ie, the fans and changes in his BH, talking to Reeva, whether the alarm was on and whether the bedroom door was actually locked, the missing phone, the removal of the handbag, the whole shouting/screaming debacle in which he completely ignores the fact that 3 sets of neighbours heard a woman screaming before the gun shots and two others only heard a man not a woman crying (ie they were asleep before and until just after the gunfire and were awoken by this) and so much more.
 
ColonelMustard said:
AJ_DS,

Great to have you onboard! Love your insights and input. Hope you'll stay put.

Random thoughts...

I agree that whatever happened that night was the straw that broke the camel's back. The cosmic tumblers tragically aligned that night.

Re-watching Nel's cross-examination, this evening, I was again astounded by the depth of OP's immaturity. I feel like OP is most "himself," most "real" during a lengthy soliloquy (Friday, April 11, 2014) in which he variously describes Quinton van der Burgh, Kyalami racetrack, Samantha Taylor, Sun City, Marc Batchelor, and The Hawks. He sounds like he's in 7th grade (US middle school, 12-13 years old) - a sad, horrifying spin on Tom Hank's character in the movie, Big.

Additionally, I continue to wonder about possible physical ramifications stemming from that boat accident. I have a number of friends who are MDs and PhDs specializing in brain injuries who don't discount the possibility. I'll be interested to see whether anything comes up about it from his mental health eval.
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Hi Colonel M,

I too perceived OP as a very immature individual.

As for the boating accident… it is certainly possible… but if anything was wrong with OP because of it, you can bet Roux would have brought evidence in that regard.

The fact is that for such evidence to be presented, a neuro-specialist would have to scan OP brain and determine the presence of lesions or similar damage… then, based on the lesions, a psychiatrist would have to diagnose OP with a mental condition.

The only thing Roux and OP could wrangle up is GAD… based only on OP's unchallenged word
 
AJ_DS said:
Hi Colonel M,

I too perceived OP as a very immature individual.

As for the boating accident… it is certainly possible… but if anything was wrong with OP because of it, you can bet Roux would have brought evidence in that regard.

The fact is that for such evidence to be presented, a neuro-specialist would have to scan OP brain and determine the presence of lesions or similar damage… then, based on the lesions, a psychiatrist would have to diagnose OP with a mental condition.

The only thing Roux and OP could wrangle up is GAD… based only on OP's unchallenged word
Click to expand...

Although, if OP is driving his "legal boat," would he have stood still for a scan and, if positive for brain injury, been willing to use that as a defense?

I would think not. It isn't an image of himself that he could tolerate nor would it have have been acceptable to his sponsors.

Sponsors? Yes, I really think OP feels he has a great chance of walking or serving minimal time and then returning to his sponsors' and the public's embrace.

I don't know whether his family believes that, too, and / or may be humoring / misleading him so he can "get through" the trial.

If the latter, above, it would be reminiscent of families and friends who conspire against the revelation of a terminal diagnosis to a loved one. "It's for their own good. "

By the way, if he does get a light sentence I will feel very angry.
"Justice" for the rich and well-connected, while no-doubt a factor, will have been trumped by politics.

I wonder what Masipa will do if she is pressured to go light on him. My guess is that she'll buckle. Such is the nature and power of politics.

Look at it already. He got bail, he is having a trial quickly, in the limelight, and was allowed to have his mental health eval as an outpatient. I understand they are typically, if not always, done inpatient. With so few beds, accused are jailed for years before their evals.

I think his bail should have been revoked and OP taken into custody as soon as the application was approved. How many other accused are smilingly told by the judge that "they don't want to punish him twice. "

It was grossly inappropriate for Masipa to be that casual, especially after, appropriately, admonishing Nel and the gallery for similar behavior, and was detrimental to the cause of challenging the stigma around mental illness.

That's all that people who struggle and suffer with the disease DON'T need to believe - that being evaluated about their health and receiving treatment as an inpatient, is humorous and/or a "punishment". It is beyond detrimental. I have a problem with those who focus on activism and awareness in one area (for Masipa, violence against women) while being completely blind, insensitive, and damaging in other just causes.
 
After London 2012 Olympics

We know that Oscar Pistorius had a shoulder injury that required physiotherapy, injections and athletic kinesio tape on his back.

We also know that Oscar was blowing off training sessions because of that shoulder injury.

We also can also infer that Oscar Pistorius was having trouble with is 200m and could no longer replicate his best time of 21.52… In a Whatsapp message, Reeva wrote to Oscar : "You need to get your *advertiser censored* down to 52s again"

We also know that Oscar was injecting himself with testis compositum which is marketed for muscle recovery, low stamina and in some cases as a testosterone booster.

Oscar also mentioned that he needed to get a surgery on his stumps because the 'flesh pad' had shifted from under his stump to the side… although I do not automatically believe anything Oscar says, it makes sense that after 10 years of intense professional training and competing, his stumps would have somewhat suffered.

This type of surgery would require a period of convalescence, rehab and physiotherapy… with no rigorous training during this time. Plus all surgery carry some risk and Oscar was faced with the possibility of never being able to compete again.

All these factors plus Oscar's age indicate that his career as a professional athlete was basically over… he was grasping at straws, deluding himself that he could still compete against younger and faster athletes that now also used advanced carbon fiber blades.

Oscar said in a interview in 2011 : "I'm very close to my brother, who's an extreme sports junkie, very active like me, very driven. Our parents always said that if we started something we had to commit to it 100 per cent. So if I do a gym session, throwing up afterwards, struggling to get the key in the ignition, that's what I enjoy." Reference

Oscar states he is an 'extreme sports junkie' who commits himself 100% in his endeavors… this is the only lifestyle he knew and thrived upon during the past 10 years : training, diet, competing.

If Oscar's professional athletic career was over it meant giving up the only thing he was passionate about and finding something else to commit himself 100% !

Since he wasn't particularly good at anything else (except perhaps shooting guns), one can imagine the psychological distress Oscar Pistorius must have been enduring since the London 2012 Olympics.

This distress manifested itself in his relationship with Reeva : the public tantrums, the picking, the demeaning, the jealousy, etc...
 
ColonelMustard said:
Although, if OP is driving his "legal boat," would he have stood still for a scan and, if positive for brain injury, been willing to use that as a defense?

I would think not. It isn't an image of himself that he could tolerate nor would it have have been acceptable to his sponsors.

Sponsors? Yes, I really think OP feels he has a great chance of walking or serving minimal time and then returning to his sponsors' and the public's embrace.

I don't know whether his family believes that, too, and / or may be humoring / misleading him so he can "get through" the trial.

If the latter, above, it would be reminiscent of families and friends who conspire against the revelation of a terminal diagnosis to a loved one. "It's for their own good. "

By the way, if he does get a light sentence I will feel very angry.
"Justice" for the rich and well-connected, while no-doubt a factor, will have been trumped by politics.

I wonder what Masipa will do if she is pressured to go light on him. My guess is that she'll buckle. Such is the nature and power of politics.

Look at it already. He got bail, he is having a trial quickly, in the limelight, and was allowed to have his mental health eval as an outpatient. I understand they are typically, if not always, done inpatient. With so few beds, accused are jailed for years before their evals.

I think his bail should have been revoked and OP taken into custody as soon as the application was approved. How many other accused are smilingly told by the judge that "they don't want to punish him twice. "

It was grossly inappropriate for Masipa to be that casual, especially after, appropriately, admonishing Nel and the gallery for similar behavior, and was detrimental to the cause of challenging the stigma around mental illness.

That's all that people who struggle and suffer with the disease DON'T need to believe - that being evaluated about their health and receiving treatment as an inpatient, is humorous and/or a "punishment". It is beyond detrimental. I have a problem with those who focus on activism and awareness in one area (for Masipa, violence against women) while being completely blind, insensitive, and damaging in other just causes.
Click to expand...

You raise many valid points… and I agree with most of them.

OP is deluding himself if he believes sponsors are going to stick with him… no matter the verdict… that boat has long sailed.

I believe one should not read into the granting of bail as a form of favoritism… Objectively, Oscar Pistorius was not at all a flight risk… he was granted bail for a relatively small amount ($95,000 if I remember) with some conditions attached… this is standard procedure all over the world… no sense in further crowding crowded prisons with people who don't necessitate incarceration.

The matter of the outpatient comes from Oscar being already granted bail… those who wait for an evaluation in prison are there either because they are a flight risk or because they are a danger to society. Furthermore, as with prisons, no sense in further crowding crowded mental facilities when the out-patient option is readily available.
 
I still say he's guilty..It's a shame, but unfortunately that is what I think. JMO
 
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AJ_DS said:
Oscar said in a interview in 2011 : "I'm very close to my brother, who's an extreme sports junkie, very active like me, very driven. Our parents always said that if we started something we had to commit to it 100 per cent. So if I do a gym session, throwing up afterwards, struggling to get the key in the ignition, that's what I enjoy." Reference
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your posts AJ, you've certainly done a lot research and it's a treat to read.
I just wanted to highlight where OP describes his usual gym session, he physically and psychologically exerts himself till he throws up.

This is why I don't put much credence in his puking in the kitchen witnessed by Carissa and during the trial when photo evidence of Reeva's injuries were shown. I think being emotionally distraught he could vomit at will with very little effort. I mention this because there have been supporters who see this as some kind of proof of his innocense. jmho
 
Apologies if this subject has been previously analyzed and discussed.

We have 2 possible bed sides and 2 relevant sleeping variants :

A Sleeping on the right-hand side of the bed (RHS) i.e. balcony side
B Sleeping on the left-hand side of the bed (LHS) i.e. sofa side

1 Sleeping on your right shoulder
2 Sleeping on your left shoulder

For a total of 4 sleeping possibilities A1, A2, B1 and B2. Sleeping variants back and stomach are irrelevant in this analysis because if either Oscar or Reeva slept in this manner, Oscar’s side-switching would be pointless.

Oscar says that he switched sides that night and slept on the left-hand side (LHS) of the bed because of his injury to his right shoulder.

– This categorically states that Oscar’s habit was A1

– This also categorically states that Oscar’s intention was B2

Oscar could very well have slept A2 : on his usual side of the bed but on his uninjured left shoulder

The ONLY reason I can think of to switch sides is to avoid having to go to sleep facing away from Reeva

But one must ALSO consider Reeva’s sleeping habits in this analysis :

– If Reeva’s habit was B1 … this means that Reeva was facing away from Oscar every night… and that would render Oscar’s sudden desire to face Reeva that night an unprecedented requirement.

– If Reeva’s habit was B2… this means that after the side-switching, Reeva would be facing away from Oscar… and that would render Oscar's side-switching utterly pointless.

The ONLY way Oscar’s story can possibly make sense is if BOTH Oscar and Reeva decide to go against ALL their habits :

– Oscar in B2 : inhabitual side of the bed, on his uninjured shoulder

– Reeva in A1 : inhabitual side of the bed, on her unaccustomed shoulder

Although Oscar strongly suggests that he wants to face Reeva in bed, his own version of events clearly demonstrate the opposite, Oscar’s apathy towards Reeva… When Oscar woke up and didn’t look at Reeva when she talked to him… Oscar didn’t look or talk to Reeva after he heard the window open… Oscar didn’t look at Reeva when he whispered to her to get down and call the police and he wasn't expecting her to respond anything.

Since Oscar was suffering from his shoulder injury for at least a month prior to the shooting, one would have expected that Oscar's stuff would have EITHER slowly migrated from the right-hand side of the bed to the left-hand side over the past month OR would have been purposefully moved until his injury had healed and he could go back to his usual side of the bed.

This was obviously NOT the case : Oscar's hair clipper, books, binders, extra bullet magazine clip, etc… were ALL found on the right-hand side of the bed !!… whilst the left-hand side was void of any clutter or personal items (as one would expect from the side of the visiting girlfriend)
 
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