MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #9

Trino said:

No evidence of a fall or an indentation of it. Not even evidence of a struggle. So strange. I think he had to be out of the area in a few minutes.

Obviously, from my posts, I don't think DR was involved, and despite lack of evidence, I believe a car was involved. I have no idea where it was hidden - perhaps not around the immediate vicinity - but I think it was there.

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This is not true according to Patty Wetterling's 20/20 interview

my own quote: "From what I gathered from the I.D. Network's rebroadcast of the 20/20 show featuring the Wetterlings, Patty Wetterling agrees that Jacob's last footprints in the driveway indicated Jacob showed resistance/struggled"

Happy to upload a poor quality video where she states this if necessary

Ifollowthis said:

Genius thought, never thought of running shorts for a mask, but sure would work! Now if only I could get the picture out of my head of running tights and combat boots! ;-)

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I can't stop itching

Caoutchouc said:

I disagree and can cite case law, but I won't bore you with the details.The outcome remains the same - no one was taken into custody or charged

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Please cite case law referencing how a judge would have granted additional search warrants for Dan's home if the cadaver dogs had not identified cadaverine (evidence).

The judge initially sign a search warrant for the outer properties and burn pit, but NOT Dan's home. Upon the cadaver dogs locating cadaverine on items in Dan's garage (items taken by LE), the judge signed additional search warrant(s) for Dan's home.

Caoutchouc said:

Interesting. Thanks for the info, and I'll read up on it a bit more.
However, relating back to the search for Jacob, wouldn't you agree that if the dogs had made a conclusive hit on DR's farm he'd have been at VERY least arrested if not arrested and charged?

It makes no sense to claim the dogs conclusively determined there was evidence of a human cadaver, then the subject was dropped

Am I missing something?

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Exactly what would he be arrested for? They found the scent of human death? Whose? Can they prove who died ? No.

Not enough info. LE at this point cannot identify whose death it is.

Caoutchouc said:

Hummm. I'll keep an open mind, but short of scientists inventing a time machine which would allow retroactive surveillance footage of the night in question, I can't imagine how any new technology would readily hold up in court, facing the same problem as you've mentioned- inconclusive evidence

I think the case was so high profile that the local DA would've jumped at the chance to hold or charge DR if they could have. IMO because they didn't have anything marginally conclusive, they "hung onto evidence" to save face.
Those digs and searches are expensive! They had to show something for it (again, my thoughts)

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Pensfan identified what the new technology could be. The DNA strands, for instance. Using DNA itself was used first around 1989 for crime.

human said:

Exactly what would he be arrested for? They found the scent of human death? Whose? Can they prove who died ? No.

Not enough info. LE at this point cannot identify whose death it is.

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True. To be clear, a dead body hit by a dog (regardless whether or not the body is present, and whether or not they know who it belongs to) IMO is sufficient for an arrest or at very least detained questioning

Pensfan said:

No, all evidence doesn't point away from Dan carting Jacob off in his cedar chest. In fact, this simple explanation is the most logical.

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Do you really find it logical that a kidnapper would set up a cedar chest on his driveway with the lid open, throw his abductee into said chest, and then make off towards his house carrying the unwieldy object with a likely screaming, flailing child inside? Sounds awfully farfetched to me. Not impossible, but it's not a conclusion I would reach without copious mental acrobatics.


I have not yet heard back from the Dateline producer. I will email him in 7-10 days to get a status update. I hope these Dateline people can tear themselves away from their trite, pseudo-noirish "husband's mistress killed wife" twaddle long enough to run a story of actual import, but I'm frankly not keeping my hopes up.

You have not. I've asked multiple times for the source where you note the chest "reeked". This isn't a passive statement, something reeking reminds me of a skunk or pig smell.

I would be curious as to the age of the chest. I know for example that the family chest currently in my parents possession has been passed down by 3 generations so far. It's not hard to imagine that a family like the Rassier's, who have been farming most of their existence in Stearns County, would have a family heirloom like a chest that's been passed down through generations.

Pensfan said:

I've provided you with several references and the logic to interpret their information. Reread posts 1165, 1174, 1178, 1179, 1182, 1183, 1192, 1193, 1197, and 1199. Especially concentrate on post 1174 (LE didn't play Eenie Meenie Miney Mo to select the objects from Dan's garage which LE has RETAINED AS EVIDENCE.)

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Has it been chronicled here what vehicles contributed to the tire tracks on the Rassier driveway? Here's a shot from DR that was provided for Joy's blog. Remember, these photo's are lit and it would have been near pitch black out in late October. Couple that with the fact that the line of site from the Rassier farm to 91st Ave is near nil and I find it next to impossible that DR could have noticed these boys riding by on their bikes. Yes they had a flashlight, but based on the photo it would have been near impossible to have seen it from the Rassier household.



First, he would have had no idea where they were going and when they would be returning. For all the perp knew they were just riding up and down the road. Second, he would have had to have been walking around down by the end of his driveway WITH A GUN IN HAND and a large chest that could hold an adolescent boy (according to some speculators). After procuring Jacob, he would have had to hurry him back up to the farm, or rent a spaceship and fly him there from Jacob's last footprint, all the while leaving ZERO evidence behind. DR than would have to find an elusive hiding place, all under the premise that LE could/should be knocking on his door any moment after the abduction.
Once they would have made contact with DR, he would have had to been completely open with showing them every crevice of the property for fear of letting it slip that Jacob was being hid somewhere.

Finally, according to some speculating here, DR packed Jacob into an instrument case and drove him right under the cops noses the day after the most highly profiled abduction in the history of Minnesota. How would he have known that LE wouldn't have stopped him and asked to search his vehicle?

The only reason there is speculation that DR committed this crime is due to the lousy police work. If they would have checked the farm, checked his vehicle and not polluted the crime scene he would never even have been considered a POI (IMO).

All facts of this case lead to Jacob having been taken away in a vehicle. My opinion is that LE did not account for all vehicles that traveled on the Rassier driveway. It very well could have been that multiple vehicles with the same tire tread passed along the Rassier driveway that day.

Also in the picture note the field road. Had that road been thoroughly examined for vehicle prints? I can't for the life of me figure out how the perp marched Jacob down that driveway but left ZERO evidence of following him.

Not an apples to apples comparison, but an interesting tidbit about a canine's incredible olfactory senses.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5543778?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000021

Caoutchouc said:

True. To be clear, a dead body hit by a dog (regardless whether or not the body is present, and whether or not they know who it belongs to) IMO is sufficient for an arrest or at very least detained questioning

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An arrest? More than one person lives in the home. How would LE decide whom to arrest?

They did name him POI

It is pretty obvious that in the fist hours of the investigation, the working assumption was that JW was taken to a vehicle parked 40 yards or so up DR's driveway and the perp had driven off into the night. This assumption was reasonable since JW's footprints ended next to vehicle and the dogs lost the sent at that point. They appeared to be so certain that this is what happened that they failed to do what should have been an obvious move: ask the homeowner if he/she had seen anything (and try to get a sense of any possible involvement in the crime). A lot of detectives would ask
the homeowner:"do you mind if we have a look around"; not because they really wanted to search the house but to see how the homeowner would react.

Even after they did talk to DR, they do not appear to consider him any kind of a suspect. He appears to have been considered a "low level" witness and nothing more. His information was considered so unimportant that the tape of his 911 call was not retained. Evidently, they were looking for some specific vehicles and whatever DR told them was not significant.

The described vehicles were either dead ends or could be ruled out and the case went cold. Then, in 2003, Kevin came forward, and everything changed.

It is not clear to me that Kevin's (girlfriends's) car was ever considered a "suspect car" and there is no evidence that the tracks next to JW's footprints were made by it. That vehicle may have disturbed the crime scene but, since he arrived at the scene 15 to 30 minutes after the abduction, any sightings of that vehicle leaving the crime scene should not have been that relevant to the investigation. Why did Kevin's coming forward change the direction of the investigation?

It is possible that there is enough crime scene evidence so that Kevin's existence really does "rule out" the use of a car, but Law Enforcement hasn't made this claim. Why not lay it out/show their hand. This would have put real pressure on DR. Compelling evidence of no unaccounted for car in the driveway that night may not be sufficient to indite DR but it would greatly undermine his ability to maintain his standing in the community. It would also justify all of the searches and the expense they entailed. I can see no advantage in "holding back" this information.

I suspect Kevin prompted Sheriff Sanner to take a "fresh look" at the case and rethink the operating assumptions. This is a very valid approach but it isn't going to work if the original operating assumptions were correct all along, and the evidence just wasn't there.

DR specifically noted in the interview with Joy that he ran up the driveway after his afternoon jog. Had LE documented his footprints? Looking at the aerial photo from 87 it's clear the Rassier farm driveway is maintained with a road-grader of some type. I bring this up as there must have been quite a bit of contamination the next morning with the police on horseback, on foot and the four wheelers being used in the search.

Were Jacobs tracks in the center of the driveway or located closer to the edges of it? Would the perp have walked along the grassy edges as to not have any prints accounted for? Also, when the perp HALTED the boys in the middle of 91st St, wouldn't that set of prints be accounted for?




"After running through the Del-Win parking lot and taking note of the Polka Fest, now in full swing, Dan cuts back over to 91st Avenue and heads toward home. He remembers stopping at the farm mailbox and picking up the paper, then continuing down the driveway toward his house. Nothing is out of the ordinary. It’s a beautiful day."
http://www.joybaker.com/?s=jog

FindTim said:

DR specifically noted in the interview with Joy that he ran up the driveway after his afternoon jog. Had LE documented his footprints? Looking at the aerial photo from 87 it's clear the Rassier farm driveway is maintained with a road-grader of some type. I bring this up as there must have been quite a bit of contamination the next morning with the police on horseback, on foot and the four wheelers being used in the search.

Were Jacobs tracks in the center of the driveway or located closer to the edges of it? Would the perp have walked along the grassy edges as to not have any prints accounted for? Also, when the perp HALTED the boys in the middle of 91st St, wouldn't that set of prints be accounted for?




"After running through the Del-Win parking lot and taking note of the Polka Fest, now in full swing, Dan cuts back over to 91st Avenue and heads toward home. He remembers stopping at the farm mailbox and picking up the paper, then continuing down the driveway toward his house. Nothing is out of the ordinary. It’s a beautiful day."
http://www.joybaker.com/?s=jog

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Where is the documentation as to what LE did or did not do re the driveway and footprints and contaminating the scene.

There are pics on here of them taking casts of the prints.

I don't understand why people keep saying the scene was contaminated. Where is the evidence that they were riding over it before it was documented

DR has reported several times that LE contaminated the scene. Also, it's been reported on here that DR "lifted the tape" and drove over the crime scene.

human said:

Where is the documentation as to what LE did or did not do re the driveway and footprints and contaminating the scene.

There are pics on here of them taking casts of the prints.

I don't understand why people keep saying the scene was contaminated. Where is the evidence that they were riding over it before it was documented

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FindTim said:

DR has reported several times that LE contaminated the scene. Also, it's been reported on here that DR "lifted the tape" and drove over the crime scene.

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Yes, but that is DR saying it. He said lots of things that are suspect such as the multiple cars.

We don't have a clue what LE did re the crime scene.

FindTim said:

Has it been chronicled here what vehicles contributed to the tire tracks on the Rassier driveway? Here's a shot from DR that was provided for Joy's blog. Remember, these photo's are lit and it would have been near pitch black out in late October. Couple that with the fact that the line of site from the Rassier farm to 91st Ave is near nil and I find it next to impossible that DR could have noticed these boys riding by on their bikes. Yes they had a flashlight, but based on the photo it would have been near impossible to have seen it from the Rassier household.

<modsnip>

First, he would have had no idea where they were going and when they would be returning. For all the perp knew they were just riding up and down the road. Second, he would have had to have been walking around down by the end of his driveway WITH A GUN IN HAND and a large chest that could hold an adolescent boy (according to some speculators). After procuring Jacob, he would have had to hurry him back up to the farm, or rent a spaceship and fly him there from Jacob's last footprint, all the while leaving ZERO evidence behind. DR than would have to find an elusive hiding place, all under the premise that LE could/should be knocking on his door any moment after the abduction.
Once they would have made contact with DR, he would have had to been completely open with showing them every crevice of the property for fear of letting it slip that Jacob was being hid somewhere.

Finally, according to some speculating here, DR packed Jacob into an instrument case and drove him right under the cops noses the day after the most highly profiled abduction in the history of Minnesota. How would he have known that LE wouldn't have stopped him and asked to search his vehicle?

The only reason there is speculation that DR committed this crime is due to the lousy police work. If they would have checked the farm, checked his vehicle and not polluted the crime scene he would never even have been considered a POI (IMO).

All facts of this case lead to Jacob having been taken away in a vehicle. My opinion is that LE did not account for all vehicles that traveled on the Rassier driveway. It very well could have been that multiple vehicles with the same tire tread passed along the Rassier driveway that day.

Also in the picture note the field road. Had that road been thoroughly examined for vehicle prints? I can't for the life of me figure out how the perp marched Jacob down that driveway but left ZERO evidence of following him.

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Perhaps Dr did it at gunpoint from the side of the dirt road? Pointing gun and telling Jacob to walk on it? People will do a lot of things at gunpoint. People also will NOT do a lot of things at gunpoint, like run or scream. And if you look at google maps https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...2!3m1!1s0x52b4584ec334e987:0xe0d4822c2aa593fc There is a clear line of site from DR farm to Kiwi Ct area...DR driveway is on an incline until the turn near the woodpile. DR would have been anywhere from woodpile at highest level of driveway to street and seen the boys flashlights. He may have even had windows open and heard the boys in the distance. It is a very short distance between the 2 homes. He said he was outside running, he said he was at the mailbox. He could have observed them at any point. What other perp would feel that confident that nobody would be headed down DR's driveway? The only person who knew for sure that NOBODY would be headed down DR driveway that night was DR. Neighbors knew his parents also lived there but who knew they were away? Who else knew the boys would NOT be headed up the driveway?

Also, it would not be unusual for DR footprints to be on that driveway. It would be unusual if they weren't.

HEY YOU! said:

Perhaps Dr did it at gunpoint from the side of the dirt road? Pointing gun and telling Jacob to walk on it? People will do a lot of things at gunpoint. People also will NOT do a lot of things at gunpoint, like run or scream. And if you look at google maps https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...2!3m1!1s0x52b4584ec334e987:0xe0d4822c2aa593fc There is a clear line of site from DR farm to Kiwi Ct area...DR driveway is on an incline until the turn near the woodpile. DR would have been anywhere from woodpile at highest level of driveway to street and seen the boys flashlights. He may have even had windows open and heard the boys in the distance. It is a very short distance between the 2 homes. He said he was outside running, he said he was at the mailbox. He could have observed them at any point. What other perp would feel that confident that nobody would be headed down DR's driveway? The only person who knew for sure that NOBODY would be headed down DR driveway that night was DR. Neighbors knew his parents also lived there but who knew they were away? Who else knew the boys would NOT be headed up the driveway?

Also, it would not be unusual for DR footprints to be on that driveway. It would be unusual if they weren't.

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It was also October, no leaves on any trees. You would be able to see right through the trees between the road and the house.

And perhaps a perp was out driving around much like in Jared's abduction? A history of perps perusing around the towns of Paynesville and Cold Spring has been established. Patty and Jared both feel there's a strong possibility that the same perp is guilty across all cases. For you or I to think we know more about these cases than Jared and Patty is lunacy. If Patty and Jared think its the same perp, so do I.

“I do think there is a strong possibility they could be connected,” she said. “Every one of these victims needs answers. Are they tied to Jacob? Let’s find out.” - Patty Wetterling

HEY YOU! said:

Perhaps Dr did it at gunpoint from the side of the dirt road? Pointing gun and telling Jacob to walk on it? People will do a lot of things at gunpoint. People also will NOT do a lot of things at gunpoint, like run or scream. And if you look at google maps https://www.google.com/maps/place/K...2!3m1!1s0x52b4584ec334e987:0xe0d4822c2aa593fc There is a clear line of site from DR farm to Kiwi Ct area...DR driveway is on an incline until the turn near the woodpile. DR would have been anywhere from woodpile at highest level of driveway to street and seen the boys flashlights. He may have even had windows open and heard the boys in the distance. It is a very short distance between the 2 homes. He said he was outside running, he said he was at the mailbox. He could have observed them at any point. What other perp would feel that confident that nobody would be headed down DR's driveway? The only person who knew for sure that NOBODY would be headed down DR driveway that night was DR. Neighbors knew his parents also lived there but who knew they were away? Who else knew the boys would NOT be headed up the driveway?

Also, it would not be unusual for DR footprints to be on that driveway. It would be unusual if they weren't.

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Have you stood in DR's bedroom and attempted to look out his window*in October? How can you be so certain that the leaves had fallen by October 22nd?
These images show that foliage hadn't fully changed yet.





http://www.joybaker.com/2013/03/14/kevins-story/

nmogren said:

It was also October, no leaves on any trees. You would be able to see right through the trees between the road and the house.

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