FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #10

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Thanks!

:waitasec: Was it just coincidence that we latched onto posting 'bout it in February? Was there something else that caught the trip wire on the case Jan/Feb '09? Anniversary?

Maybe he either confessed to CG and then decided it was a bad idea, or CG found something that linked Hateway to JK. Once CG was out of the picture Hateway figured he could do it again.
 
Following timeline correct?

Last heard from ~10PM Monday night, 1/23, via phone call w/ boyfriend. Had worked that day after returning from time away w/ boyfriend.

POI captured on surveillance video leaving Kesse's car @ apt. 1PM Tuesday, 1/24.

Believe I read workout clothes, an exercise bag & purse missing. Correct?

Kesse known to use the workout facility @ her apt? (Mosaic?)
 
Good point. Maybe she either worked out late and then came home to shower and lay out clothes for work the next day. Someone knocked on her door and its someone she kinda knows. Perhaps this person needed a ride since their wasn't a struggle in the apartment and no one heard anything.

Other possiblity, is she wakes up early for work goes to work out returns home, turns shower on and lays out clothes for work. Someone knocked on door and needs a ride. She had to kinda know this person.

I don't know why they keep going with a morning abduction because it would possible for someone to see who she was leaving with. But if it was more like 11pm then it would be less likely.
 
I think they go with the AM abduction because she was on the phone with Rob the night before... she might have been in bed at that point.
 
Unless/until someone complains I'll just keep posting up questions to the extent anyone is willing to answer, I'll just move @ that pace until I get time to read back through everything.

1) Is there a decent detailed timeline anywhere?

2) Surely her workout routine has been established? Morning or evening or both? At Mosaic and/or have seen a facility next to the Tap Room mentioned also. I'd be inclined to buy a morning workout routine. Facility @ Mosaic and one next to Tap Room open 24hrs? Since I'm assuming no one saw Kesse after 10PM 1/23, IF we went w/ an early morning workout we could have something like a parking-lot-upon-arrival-@-a-workout-facility-before-seen-by-anyone abduction. That would put the perp in a position to be in control of the car that morning. That would also tighten up the timeline considerably.

3) :poke: Out on a limb w/ the potential JVH connection, having read something about him potentially being connected w/ the workout facility near the Tap Room and/or Kesse having spent time @ the Tap Room I can envision a, "Hey...?" casual just-happened-to-arrive-in-the-workout-facility-parking-lot-@-the-same-time and from him being someone she might at least recognize & not fear...he'd get close enough to subdue her & takeoff. :takeoff:

Apologies for what must surely be well-trodden ground.

:waitasec:
 
Praying dna has been collected in even one case w which JVH is connected, w/out which even CODIS results from his comparison sample will be of limited value (if no bodies recovered). So frustrating, hopefully some of JVH's dna in storage from at least one of his victims, somewhere.
:prayer:
:parrot:
 
Hi James, I know where all this workout stuff is coming from, but have you reviewed the info on Jennifer? It would take quite awhile, I understand. I am up to speed on only a few cases and it consumes so much time. But I needed to look at a case this weekend, Amber Dubois, and I read the threads on multiple boards on her to get up to speed. There's just no way around it.

Jennifer came back from a weekend in the Carribean on Monday morning and I believe went straight to work in Orlando (Ocoee) from Ft. Lauderdale area where her bf lives. She came home from work Monday evening and talkedto several people by phone, including her brother who asked her to overnight a cellphone left in her condo by a friend of his when they were staying in her condo for the weekend while she was gone.

She was last on the phone at 10 pm with her bf saying goodnight.

I have never heard anything mentioned about workout facilities at the Mosaic, obviously I'm sure they have them, but it's a real stretch trying to fit in a workout angle in a Monday evening coming hone from being gone for three days.

Tuesday morning there are several other issues, none dealt with very well by anyone, concerning not making her normal wakeup call to her bf and not answering his call to her when he didn't hear from her.

Her routine was shattered, and I wouldn't attribute it to some new workout angle because of Hataway.

rd
 
Anyone ever get detailed measurements from the scene where that security video was taken?

It would be a straightforward exercise to scale the image to other known objects in the field of view (e.g. fence elements, sidewalk marks, etc.) to the POI. To be complete one would need to know the distance from the ground to the camera lens, and the horizontal distance from the point under the camera to the fence...as well as some measurements on the fence elements, etc.

I'd be happy to do the math if given the measurements.

James, I welcome you to scan through Jennifer Kesse POI photo analysis links
http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3402

In it are included a description of the scene when I visited there and some detailed measurements by poster J4J. Also some pictures from J4J in the Blowup of Kesse Suspect thread linked inn the thread.

I'd be interested in your take on it, for example your calculations on the measurements, etc.

rd
 
Hi James, I know where all this workout stuff is coming from, but have you reviewed the info on Jennifer? It would take quite awhile, I understand. I am up to speed on only a few cases and it consumes so much time. But I needed to look at a case this weekend, Amber Dubois, and I read the threads on multiple boards on her to get up to speed. There's just no way around it.

Jennifer came back from a weekend in the Carribean on Monday morning and I believe went straight to work in Orlando (Ocoee) from Ft. Lauderdale area where her bf lives. She came home from work Monday evening and talkedto several people by phone, including her brother who asked her to overnight a cellphone left in her condo by a friend of his when they were staying in her condo for the weekend while she was gone.

She was last on the phone at 10 pm with her bf saying goodnight.

I have never heard anything mentioned about workout facilities at the Mosaic, obviously I'm sure they have them, but it's a real stretch trying to fit in a workout angle in a Monday evening coming hone from being gone for three days.

Tuesday morning there are several other issues, none dealt with very well by anyone, concerning not making her normal wakeup call to her bf and not answering his call to her when he didn't hear from her.

Her routine was shattered, and I wouldn't attribute it to some new workout angle because of Hataway.

rd

Thanks, RD_JFC. I'm doing what I groan at seeing others so...posting w/o doing my homework :bang: Will take a look @ what you've provided. Thanks for the quick summary :)

Was reading about potential that Kesse used the workout facility (Cardio Club) located adjacent to the Tap Room (where Kesse and Ocasio missing 5/09 reportedly both hung out)...and the Ocasio POI (Hataway) may have also done some work as a personal trainer...dunno how accurate any of that is...maybe just speculation.

Thought there was also something 'bout a cardio bag of Kesse's missing in addition to her purse. This might support a morning abduction if Kesse had headed for a workout on her way to the office...maybe planning to overnight the phone along the way too. When I marked Kesse's condo & workplace on the map (link below) this workout facility would be on her route to work. So...maybe not such a huge stretch.

Created the following map as we look @ the potential inserection of info in the Ocasio, Kesse and George (Onda Chris George acquaintence of Hataway's that went missing 2/09). I marked what I believe is the path of the Kesse POI as caught on the security video by the pool where her car was left. I haven't nailed down exactly where he was caught in the best 2 pics by what appeared to be a gate. Please take a look and see if you can help me make this marking more accurate. The map can be edited by anyone.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...39131657185086.00046ca500eb1ac9ed26e&t=h&z=15

Did the cell phone get overnighted? IOW...did it ever show up? Anyone locate the overnight location(s) which Kesse would've most likely used?



James, I welcome you to scan through Jennifer Kesse POI photo analysis links
http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3402

In it are included a description of the scene when I visited there and some detailed measurements by poster J4J. Also some pictures from J4J in the Blowup of Kesse Suspect thread linked inn the thread.

I'd be interested in your take on it, for example your calculations on the measurements, etc.

rd

Will take a look. Thanks!
 
Yes, the potential is from when Jennifer lived there in Ocoee. She had only moved from Ocoee and been living in her new condo on Conway for two months, and of course still worked in Ocoee.

In other words, the potential is long term that Hataway knew of her and might want to victimize her. Her moving away might have provided an opportunity for that in that it would appear to be an assault from someone in her new surroundings.

The gym bag known by her family/friends to always be in her trunk is new info to me I've only seen in blink, and haven't seen any confirmation posted that it's true. In any event, it was said to always be in her trunk, so anything regarding timing of its disappearance to a workout is not applicable.

The lack of a phone call or text message that morning to her bf cannot be overstated. When you do something every morning and the morning you don't do it you disappear, I would attribute to not doing because you disappeared.

The call or text was done early, something in the 6 to 6:30 time frame, so I believe her life had been disrupted by that time. That thought is not widely held by others, but then most of my thoughts on Jeniifer's disappearance aren't. Still, no one addresses these issues of no call to her bf and promisng to overnight the cellphone to her brother's friend either. They are rarely addressed even.

The cell phone is a big key here. There has been no information provided that indicates the status of the cell phone. Information implied is as if the cell phone was off or cell phone company had no ping info but won't reveal that they didn't have it.

The cell phone was almost certainly not off and I assume that the ping info was not available but is not being confirmed by police. That still requires an explanation for no phone call very early in the morning which I can't explain with any reasonable scenario other than headed out the door prior to 6:30 and was abducted before she could make the phone call, which still doesn't meet the reasonable criteria.

The cell phone was never sent. I looked at your questions when I first looked at this a couple of years ago and posted in Jennifer's thread:
Jennifer Kesse, 24, missing from Orlando
http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2786

Hope that helps, James.

rd
 
Unless/until someone complains I'll just keep posting up questions to the extent anyone is willing to answer, I'll just move @ that pace until I get time to read back through everything.

1) Is there a decent detailed timeline anywhere?

2) Surely her workout routine has been established? Morning or evening or both? At Mosaic and/or have seen a facility next to the Tap Room mentioned also. I'd be inclined to buy a morning workout routine. Facility @ Mosaic and one next to Tap Room open 24hrs? Since I'm assuming no one saw Kesse after 10PM 1/23, IF we went w/ an early morning workout we could have something like a parking-lot-upon-arrival-@-a-workout-facility-before-seen-by-anyone abduction. That would put the perp in a position to be in control of the car that morning. That would also tighten up the timeline considerably.

3) :poke: Out on a limb w/ the potential JVH connection, having read something about him potentially being connected w/ the workout facility near the Tap Room and/or Kesse having spent time @ the Tap Room I can envision a, "Hey...?" casual just-happened-to-arrive-in-the-workout-facility-parking-lot-@-the-same-time and from him being someone she might at least recognize & not fear...he'd get close enough to subdue her & takeoff. :takeoff:

Apologies for what must surely be well-trodden ground.

:waitasec:

Hi James, nice to meet you!!

Post #148 on page 6 of part 8 has an excellent timeline:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73078&page=6


I might be wrong but IIRC Jennifer was a former member of the Cardio Club. UCFAlumni2002 might be able to verify that info.


(I just got kicked off three times trying to post this.... *sigh*)
 
Hi James, nice to meet you!!

Post #148 on page 6 of part 8 has an excellent timeline:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73078&page=6


I might be wrong but IIRC Jennifer was a former member of the Cardio Club. UCFAlumni2002 might be able to verify that info.


(I just got kicked off three times trying to post this.... *sigh*)

Hi, Harmony. :wave:

That timeline is stellar!!! :blowkiss: I'm off to study. Will have no excuses going forward :bang:
 
Unless/until someone complains I'll just keep posting up questions to the extent anyone is willing to answer, I'll just move @ that pace until I get time to read back through everything.

1) Is there a decent detailed timeline anywhere?

2) Surely her workout routine has been established? Morning or evening or both? At Mosaic and/or have seen a facility next to the Tap Room mentioned also. I'd be inclined to buy a morning workout routine. Facility @ Mosaic and one next to Tap Room open 24hrs? Since I'm assuming no one saw Kesse after 10PM 1/23, IF we went w/ an early morning workout we could have something like a parking-lot-upon-arrival-@-a-workout-facility-before-seen-by-anyone abduction. That would put the perp in a position to be in control of the car that morning. That would also tighten up the timeline considerably.

3) :poke: Out on a limb w/ the potential JVH connection, having read something about him potentially being connected w/ the workout facility near the Tap Room and/or Kesse having spent time @ the Tap Room I can envision a, "Hey...?" casual just-happened-to-arrive-in-the-workout-facility-parking-lot-@-the-same-time and from him being someone she might at least recognize & not fear...he'd get close enough to subdue her & takeoff. :takeoff:

Apologies for what must surely be well-trodden ground.

:waitasec:

I could see #2 taking place. They said her bed was slept in and she had taken a shower recently because it was wet. She had clothes laid out for work, so maybe she left in her workout clothes and drove to the workout place which was close to her work, which is also close to hattaway's house according to your map. I wonder if anyone ever saw her work out that morning? I could see this guys asking her for a lift and her saying sure its on my way.

Of course her car was found pretty close to her apartment so I think the Perp must have known where she lived. So maybe the abduction was from her apartment complex. I want to know if any of her work clothes were missing. If so they its possible she planned to work out at a place other than the apartment. If she worked out at the apartment then she would just return to her apartment and change clothes. If this happened then they should have found her workout clothes.

Problem I am having is that why do you take a shower before you go workout?
 
From what I know, Jenn did not belong to a gym. Also, the cell phone was never overnighted (or if it was it never arrived at its destination). Jenn typically used her office's mailing facility versus going to USPS, UPS or FedEx as she had access to all at work. In regards to where she lived before Mosaic, she lived in Metrowest- which is not Ocoee. It's near Ocoee, but not Ocoee. It's right next to where the Florida Tap Room Bar is. No gym bag is missing- what is missing is her purse, her briefcase, her cell phone, ipod, brother's cell phone.

Hope this helps.
 
So if she usually called her bf in the mornings maybe it was on her way to work which would mean she was abducted getting into her car at her apartment complex. For some reason I am always worried about night time abductions and do not think much about early morning. But its seems like more and more people are abducted in the morning times. I suppose people don't have their guard up as much.
 
I really cannot add anything new to the discussion. Here are some quick thoughts . . .

1. Her shower was wet, indicating she was leaving for work either post-workout or with no workout at all. I think exploring that angle simply leads us nowhere.

2. She had a history of feeling "creeped out" by the day laborers / workers for "leering" at her. Thus, I doubt one of them knocked on her door and she went quietly to help, lend a hand, give a ride, etc. She was probably abducted by one or more people as she was unlocking / entering her car.

3. The suspect, or one of the suspects (if more than one), is linked to those apartments. He either lives there or worked there. Why else would he walk back after ditching her car? And his fear of being seen or captured on video was non-existent IMO, as his act of dropping the car off mid-day is brazen. Why not simply leave it in the evening? Did he need to get somewhere? Did LE check about people arriving to work late that day?

4. Cell phone pings are important IMO. If her family says her phone was almost never off, I would think that examining the pings could help.
 
FWIW...the POI and one of his pals in the Ocasio case apparently were in the business of removing construction debris. Will pull the string on this as info permits to see if they could've somehow been connected to removing debris from Mosaic.
 
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