The Duct Tape Match #3

JWG said:

I think it was the other way around, AZ. The hair was cut from the tape, not the tape from the hair. The images of the tape I have seen show ragged ends, not the sort of clean edges one would expect from cutting with scissors.

Click to expand...

celticthyme said:

Obviously the duct tape from Caylee / & the suburban site having been subjected to the elements for so many months has been severely compromised, and there are no prints. That tape may be from the same Henkel role as that on the gas can, but we do not know if they have definietly connected them yet do we?

Click to expand...

JWG said:

I think it was the other way around, AZ. The hair was cut from the tape, not the tape from the hair. The images of the tape I have seen show ragged ends, not the sort of clean edges one would expect from cutting with scissors.

Click to expand...

celticthyme said:

Obviously the duct tape from Caylee / & the suburban site having been subjected to the elements for so many months has been severely compromised, and there are no prints. That tape may be from the same Henkel role as that on the gas can, but we do not know if they have definietly connected them yet do we?

Click to expand...

RubyB said:

I think the confusion comes because LE had the gas cans twice. Back on 8/1/08 when G & CA related the gas can incident to LE, they escorted the A's back to the house and GA gave them the cans. At that time LE was interested to know if the cans had been in contact with whatever was rotting in KC's trunk. They photographed them (complete w/tape), swabbed them for evidence and returned them at some point. The duct tape wasn't an issue at that time because Caylee's remains w/duct tape hadn't been discovered yet.

After the remains were discovered, these two examples of visually similar duct tape became important as evidence. LE raced back over to the A's and grabbed the gas can w/tape again. I'm sure this time around they subjected the tape to testing. There has been info released about the comparison of the two samples fabric content not matching identically. Any tests results for fingerprints or DNA haven't been shared to date.

I'm personally not convinced it's all that important who put the tape on the can, it's the fact that the same type of tape was found on the A's personal property and their grandchild's remains.
And it's disingenuous of GA to accuse LE of putting that tape there before anyone knew how important it was going to be. It was photographed there on 8/1/08!

Click to expand...

JWG said:

Shurtape, once a division of Henkel's is the manufacturer.

I'm not sure why that is even a question at this point. :waitasec:

Click to expand...

notthatsmart said:

I dont think we have established that the duct tape is rare. Yes in some of your opinion it is rare, but there is not enough evidence to show this. We dont even know who manufactured this tape.

The fabric from the gas can and the fabric from the tape on Caylees skull is dis similar according to the FBI. The fact that there is fabric indicates that there is enough to compare.

If someone else has Dna on the sticky side of the duct tape (which could have been preserved if between two pieces) , We need to know who that is, otherwise it is a good argument that it was the perp.

I am not sure there is a doc that shows that the gas can duct tape is from the first or the second time they confinscated it.

I will form an opinion once all the facts are in. For now, she is presummed innocent.

Click to expand...

lizzysf said:

I knew they took them twice...but did they return them the second time too? with the tape still on it? Or does LE still have the can? That is what I am confused about:waitasec:

Click to expand...

RubyB said:

I think the confusion comes because LE had the gas cans twice. Back on 8/1/08 when G & CA related the gas can incident to LE, they escorted the A's back to the house and GA gave them the cans. At that time LE was interested to know if the cans had been in contact with whatever was rotting in KC's trunk. They photographed them (complete w/tape), swabbed them for evidence and returned them at some point. The duct tape wasn't an issue at that time because Caylee's remains w/duct tape hadn't been discovered yet.

After the remains were discovered, these two examples of visually similar duct tape became important as evidence. LE raced back over to the A's and grabbed the gas can w/tape again. I'm sure this time around they subjected the tape to testing. There has been info released about the comparison of the two samples fabric content not matching identically. Any tests results for fingerprints or DNA haven't been shared to date.

I'm personally not convinced it's all that important who put the tape on the can, it's the fact that the same type of tape was found on the A's personal property and their grandchild's remains.
And it's disingenuous of GA to accuse LE of putting that tape there before anyone knew how important it was going to be. It was photographed there on 8/1/08!

Click to expand...

notthatsmart said:

Just to add to this for what it is worth. Ga said that when they returned the can it had print dust all over it and it did not have duct tape on it. If that is true, then LE has the original duct tape.

Click to expand...

MissJames said:

Why would we believe that is true? :waitasec:

Click to expand...

notthatsmart said:

I am just curious. Wouldn't it be sop for LE to take a picture of the gas can or any evidence in its original location before they collect it? And then again take a pic when they get it to the evidence garage?

That would clear up any inconsistencies in GA statement that it didnt have duct tape on it.

If so, they have not released that picture. My understanding of the Sunshine law is that if they dont release it, it is because they are still investigating it.

I still think she is guilty, but I am not sure.

Click to expand...

notthatsmart said:

Just to add to this for what it is worth. Ga said that when they returned the can it had print dust all over it and it did not have duct tape on it. If that is true, then LE has the original duct tape.

Click to expand...

JWG said:

I took a look at the images of Q62, Q63, Q64, Q66 (gas can tape) and Q104 to see if it was possible to determine if / how the pieces were originally attached to each other. :waitasec:

When one cuts or tears duct tape, the edges stretch and deform, so with only a handful of images to work from, edge matching is not easy. No doubt the FBI at some point in their work carefully laid out and smoothed the tape so that they could do edge-matching. That is hard to do with the images we have.

But, we can do logo-matching, particularly if we look at the backs of the tape. The cutting was done through the logos, but at differing locations, making the matching not particularly difficult. :thumb: Oddly enough, I believe the pieces of tape from the remains were attached in the order the FBI numbered them (I think this is purely coincidence).

Referring to the images of the back of each piece of tape, I believe the right edge of Q62 was attached to the left edge of Q63; and the right edge of Q63 was attached to the left edge of Q64.

Black and white low-quality images of Q104 are shown on discovery pages 9758 - 9759. The first image is of the front, and the Henkel logo is visible on the left. The location of the tear through the logo is consistent with the location of the tear on the right side (of the back) of Q64. Thus, I conclude the right of Q64 was connected to the left of Q104.

A big question is whether or not Q66 from the gas can was ever attached at either end of the Q62 - Q104 strip. :waitasec:

The location of the full Q66 logo near the "bottom" edge is inconsistent with having been attached to the right side of Q62.

The quality of the Q104 image is not only poor, but the right-side is badly damaged. The best I could do is take some rough measurements (logo to logo, which are not precise because the image is of a piece of tape that has not been flattened out or straightened.

That being said, the measurements I took show that the location of the torn logo that should be on the right side (front image of tape) of Q104 is consistent with the location of the torn logo on the "top edge" of the gas can tape.

This does not tell us if the gas can tape was taken from the roll before or after the tape was put on the skull. This depends on the orientation of the logo to the leading-edge of the tape roll. If the top of the logo is toward the leading-edge, the gas can tape was removed after the tape was put on the remains. If the bottom of the logo is toward the leading-edge, then the gas can tape was removed from the roll sometime before tape was put on Caylee. Not sure it really matters.

As I did this, I noticed another thing that shows Q66 probably came from the same roll as the remains tape. It has to do with where the logo itself is cut at the sides of the tape.

Remember when we did the duct tape survey and one person - FairNBalanced - managed to find a roll of the rare tape? Here is one of the images posted, with an annotation by me showing that the logo lettering is cut on the right edge of the tape just after the comma:

View attachment 5742

The back of Q62 has a location that quite clearly shows where the logo is cut. Notice it is just after the "I" in "Inc":

View attachment 5743

This means FairNBalanced no longer needs to worry about OCSO coming after him as the mystery nanny. :yow: The other pieces of remains tape also show the same cutoff, although not quite as nicely due to image quality, adhesive residue, or dirt.

Now take a look at the gas can tape (not the best image quality from the media):

View attachment 5744

Think maybe we have a match?

Click to expand...

JWG said:

I took a look at the images of Q62, Q63, Q64, Q66 (gas can tape) and Q104 to see if it was possible to determine if / how the pieces were originally attached to each other. :waitasec:

When one cuts or tears duct tape, the edges stretch and deform, so with only a handful of images to work from, edge matching is not easy. No doubt the FBI at some point in their work carefully laid out and smoothed the tape so that they could do edge-matching. That is hard to do with the images we have.

But, we can do logo-matching, particularly if we look at the backs of the tape. The cutting was done through the logos, but at differing locations, making the matching not particularly difficult. :thumb: Oddly enough, I believe the pieces of tape from the remains were attached in the order the FBI numbered them (I think this is purely coincidence).

Referring to the images of the back of each piece of tape, I believe the right edge of Q62 was attached to the left edge of Q63; and the right edge of Q63 was attached to the left edge of Q64.

Black and white low-quality images of Q104 are shown on discovery pages 9758 - 9759. The first image is of the front, and the Henkel logo is visible on the left. The location of the tear through the logo is consistent with the location of the tear on the right side (of the back) of Q64. Thus, I conclude the right of Q64 was connected to the left of Q104.

A big question is whether or not Q66 from the gas can was ever attached at either end of the Q62 - Q104 strip. :waitasec:

The location of the full Q66 logo near the "bottom" edge is inconsistent with having been attached to the right side of Q62.

The quality of the Q104 image is not only poor, but the right-side is badly damaged. The best I could do is take some rough measurements (logo to logo, which are not precise because the image is of a piece of tape that has not been flattened out or straightened.

That being said, the measurements I took show that the location of the torn logo that should be on the right side (front image of tape) of Q104 is consistent with the location of the torn logo on the "top edge" of the gas can tape.

This does not tell us if the gas can tape was taken from the roll before or after the tape was put on the skull. This depends on the orientation of the logo to the leading-edge of the tape roll. If the top of the logo is toward the leading-edge, the gas can tape was removed after the tape was put on the remains. If the bottom of the logo is toward the leading-edge, then the gas can tape was removed from the roll sometime before tape was put on Caylee. Not sure it really matters.

As I did this, I noticed another thing that shows Q66 probably came from the same roll as the remains tape. It has to do with where the logo itself is cut at the sides of the tape.

Remember when we did the duct tape survey and one person - FairNBalanced - managed to find a roll of the rare tape? Here is one of the images posted, with an annotation by me showing that the logo lettering is cut on the right edge of the tape just after the comma:

View attachment 5742

The back of Q62 has a location that quite clearly shows where the logo is cut. Notice it is just after the "I" in "Inc":

View attachment 5743

This means FairNBalanced no longer needs to worry about OCSO coming after him as the mystery nanny. :yow: The other pieces of remains tape also show the same cutoff, although not quite as nicely due to image quality, adhesive residue, or dirt.

Now take a look at the gas can tape (not the best image quality from the media):

View attachment 5744

Think maybe we have a match?

Click to expand...

JWG said:

I took a look at the images of Q62, Q63, Q64, Q66 (gas can tape) and Q104 to see if it was possible to determine if / how the pieces were originally attached to each other. :waitasec:

When one cuts or tears duct tape, the edges stretch and deform, so with only a handful of images to work from, edge matching is not easy. No doubt the FBI at some point in their work carefully laid out and smoothed the tape so that they could do edge-matching. That is hard to do with the images we have.

But, we can do logo-matching, particularly if we look at the backs of the tape. The cutting was done through the logos, but at differing locations, making the matching not particularly difficult. :thumb: Oddly enough, I believe the pieces of tape from the remains were attached in the order the FBI numbered them (I think this is purely coincidence).

Referring to the images of the back of each piece of tape, I believe the right edge of Q62 was attached to the left edge of Q63; and the right edge of Q63 was attached to the left edge of Q64.

Black and white low-quality images of Q104 are shown on discovery pages 9758 - 9759. The first image is of the front, and the Henkel logo is visible on the left. The location of the tear through the logo is consistent with the location of the tear on the right side (of the back) of Q64. Thus, I conclude the right of Q64 was connected to the left of Q104.

A big question is whether or not Q66 from the gas can was ever attached at either end of the Q62 - Q104 strip. :waitasec:

The location of the full Q66 logo near the "bottom" edge is inconsistent with having been attached to the right side of Q62.

The quality of the Q104 image is not only poor, but the right-side is badly damaged. The best I could do is take some rough measurements (logo to logo, which are not precise because the image is of a piece of tape that has not been flattened out or straightened.

That being said, the measurements I took show that the location of the torn logo that should be on the right side (front image of tape) of Q104 is consistent with the location of the torn logo on the "top edge" of the gas can tape.

This does not tell us if the gas can tape was taken from the roll before or after the tape was put on the skull. This depends on the orientation of the logo to the leading-edge of the tape roll. If the top of the logo is toward the leading-edge, the gas can tape was removed after the tape was put on the remains. If the bottom of the logo is toward the leading-edge, then the gas can tape was removed from the roll sometime before tape was put on Caylee. Not sure it really matters.

As I did this, I noticed another thing that shows Q66 probably came from the same roll as the remains tape. It has to do with where the logo itself is cut at the sides of the tape.

Remember when we did the duct tape survey and one person - FairNBalanced - managed to find a roll of the rare tape? Here is one of the images posted, with an annotation by me showing that the logo lettering is cut on the right edge of the tape just after the comma:

View attachment 5742

The back of Q62 has a location that quite clearly shows where the logo is cut. Notice it is just after the "I" in "Inc":

View attachment 5743

This means FairNBalanced no longer needs to worry about OCSO coming after him as the mystery nanny. :yow: The other pieces of remains tape also show the same cutoff, although not quite as nicely due to image quality, adhesive residue, or dirt.

Now take a look at the gas can tape (not the best image quality from the media):

View attachment 5744

Think maybe we have a match?

Click to expand...