NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #31

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panthera said:
If that were the case, why didn't he protect his daughter and leave? If his family could afford a ticket here from Australia certainly they could've brought him and Zahra back there. MOO
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Unless you have been abused or worked closely with those who have been abused as I have, you wouldn't/couldn't understand. I wish it was just that simple, but for the majority of people being abused, sadly, it just is not.
 
Finally reporting back...

I went out again after work today and took some photos and chatted with a few people. I am very tired so this isn't going to be too detailed and probably a little discombobulated, so I apologize in advance.

Chatted with the CNN engineer for quite awhile.

He has covered numerous crime stories including Natalie Holloway and some others that I cannot remember. He does some work for NG and JVM. Didn't get his name.

He relayed the following to me:

1. Walls were torn out and maybe floors.

2. Fridge thrown in back yard torn apart piece by piece.

3. Furniture torn apart piece by piece.

4. They have been in the crawl space with and without the dog.

5. He also questioned the location of the Monte Carlo car. I asked him his theory on that and he shared with me that he thinks it is at the bottom of the lake with the child in it.

They were bringing A LOT of things from the house in plastic and brown paper bags. In and out, in and out continuously. (See photos) In the photos, I keep an original, then cropped to zoom in on certain things and saved them as a different image. I hope this helps.

Tarp lying in backyard - then three men folded it up, put in bag, sealed and back to crime scene truck. The large paper bags you see the CS guy getting out of his truck with the two SBI agents are the bags they put the tarp into. (See photos)

Just before dusk, the FBI agent picked up two more pieces of something in the mulch at the two last flags in the yard. Put them in plastic bags, took the flags up and took them back to the CS truck. (See photos)

At dusk, you could still see them working in the back bedroom that I presume to be Zahras. Looks as if they are moving things around, using different lights again and definitely taking photos. (See photos)

They took down the crime scene tape where they had the back parking lot taped off. They back yard, of course is still taped up. It looks like they are finished in the backyard and the mulch since the PD took the two pieces of evidence up from the mulch and took the last two flags with him as well.

When I got home this evening, I started going through the photos, looking more closely I saw what looked like blood on the clear plastic wadded up on the front porch. I asked hubby what he thought and he said that's exactly what it looked like to him too but he would think it would not just be sitting on the porch. (See photos)

This was extremely disturbing to me and it hit home like a hammer that this poor sweet innocent child is definitely dead and she did not die a peaceful death by any stretch of the imagination. I feel she died a horrific, disturbing, violent, malicious death by the hands of someone she trusted.

I am spent and extremely emotional at this point and I am not quite sure why it hit me like this today. Maybe because I sense we are almost at an answer and the answer is not going to be nice. I just don't want to hear it. I don't think I want the truth anymore.

I am uploading the photos now. It will take a bit for them to upload. I will post descriptions sometime tomorrow. I am going to curl up with my puppies and call both of my kids to tell them how much I love them.

Good night and I wish everyone peace tonight as we search for an answer for this dear sweet child.
 
mojave_red said:
Sarx, here's a newspaper article regarding dogs, decomp, and house:
http://www.wcnc.com/news/Investigators-return-to-Zahra-Bakers-Hickory-home-105036589.html

"Outside, investigators say the dogs did not get a hit on blood, human remains or decomposition.
Investigators did not say what they found inside the home."
...and they said, specifically, cadaver dogs.


lynn
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Thanks for that Mojave.
Ok, now, I've got a couple of real problems with this article...
NewsChannel 36 saw crews removing Zahra's mattresses and bed railings, saying search dogs will use these to constantly have her scent.

Huh? So they are scent discriminating HRD dogs, that what match specific decomp to the body?? I honestly don't even have a clue what they are saying here. I have tried to figure it out. And if that is what they are trying to say, then they just confirmed that her mattresses and bed railings have decomp on them.

The not hitting on the outside would not surprise me. And if they didn't hit outside, then they are likely not out there now looking for anything biological, which would eliminate clothing, pieces of her, murder weapon, and so on. Course it is always possible that the dogs missed it, but they used several dogs, so I really doubt it.
 
impatientredhead said:
This is why I have said I am so baffled by the posters who think AB is a victim of his spouse and he is just clueless. As I have said, I have respect for their opinions and I actually want to believe as they do because it would mean that Z had a loving parent in the house and bright spot to her home environment.

But I don't believe that, didn't believe before the call was released, but after it is released it is so calm, so patient, and so spoonfeeds a story they clearly worked out well in advance.

There is no way this is a parent that found out moments ago that his child is missing (whether by kidnapper, or because his spouse is leading him to believe it) and has put absorbed all that has happened with mistaken identity, the kidnapper thinking the car belongs to his boss because it is the work vehicle, thinking it is the boss's house because he owns it and they rent it, that he hasn't seen his kid because she is moody, and they must have taken the leg because he knows that is gone too.

Supposedly he isn't involved, he is just slow and maybe naive? He absorbed this story in great detail in the course of minutes and during great emotional trauma?

That dog don't hunt for me.....
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I agree and for me it doesn't matter if he murdered her, or EB did it and he is helping to cover it up or he had no hand in it and is just keeping what he knows quiet. It doesn't matter. A father who helps the person who murdered his child by staying silent or covering it up is no better then the person who did it. MOO At this time I don't believe that he doesn't know what happened to her. He knows and his actions and silence bothers me. Like you said I hope that changes as I hate to think Z really had no one in that house to stand up for her. Even after her death.

MOO JMHO
 
tlcox said:
Investigators and cadaver dogs searched Zahra Baker's house in Hickory Friday with the consent of her father Adam.

Outside, investigators say the dogs did not get a hit on blood, human remains or decomposition.

Investigators did not say what they found inside the home.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Investigators-return-to-Zahra-Bakers-Hickory-home-105036589.html

huh, that's odd, I know I saw nurmerous reports about the dog hits in the backyard. I am wondering if this could be considered suggestive that blood dogs were used rather than human decomp trained dogs.

I do recall PunKn saying CSI guy onscene told her the county didn't have any of those (dogs) and that they had to rely on help from other counties when they need them, I think
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Remember, they switched out dogs once already in this case because the dogs were hitting on everything. They brought in new ones when out at the work sight. This is after the originals kept hitting on everything there. Seems they had a problem with the first set of dogs. Nothing has been mentioned about the replacements that were brought in.
 
Etilema said:
I know this was being discussed in the previous thread and older posts, but I just wanted to add it here, in case someone missed it earlier in this fast-moving discussion:

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Search-warrant-reveals-new-details-in-Zahra-Baker-case-104736309.html
Charles Rotenberry, a friend of the family, called police after finding a glove in the bushes near the Baker’s backyard.
“It had a bad smell to it and there was just red goo all in it,” he says.
The search warrant says that some blood was recovered.
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Hmmm, I think the actual search warrant itself described 3 swabs of blood were taken from the Tahoe. I don't recall the glove being mentioned in the actual search warrant I saw. There might be other warrants but this might be reporters description. IMO
 
darnudes said:
Valhall has just posted some photos from Zahra's mother showing two adorable photos of Zahra as a baby and a child.

Valhall said: { Oct 28, 2010 - 08:10:14 }

Biomum has allowed me to share two of the most precious pictures of Zahra as a baby. Here she is in 2000 as a bucket full of happy beautiful baby!

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/1...eview-of-yesterdays-activities/#comment-84296
Click to expand...

TY, TY, TY!!! What a beautiful baby Z was!! I really really needed to see her just like that. All of her other pictures, albeit beautiful, have become attached to the case so these were a welcome surprise!! Whatever could have happened in this little angel's life?? IMO these pictures show a very, loved vibrant little girl.
 
darnudes said:
Actually yes I vaguely remember that.

I do think I'm getting confused and I don't want to confuse others but BS definitely made a comment about her "last day" with Zahra. I can't remember the particulars but "that day" seemed to be sometime ago. I think it's best for me not to post on this subject now as I don't have any proof to back anything up and I'm unsure of the details. Damn, just wish I had saved it.
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I could swear it was KD who took Zahra to the movies - I remember thinking that it was sad that Z didn't get to the movies until she was 10 (and in the US). No linky to prove it, though.
 
MsBrisbee said:
I guess this is something we will have to give time in order to find out. I remember however, way back on thread 3 or 4, a member posted something about this, ( hpefully, she will repost, as she was very succint). She said that when things like this happen, when the perps come up with an explanation as to a missing person, that usually something big was about to happen in their lives and the missing person had to be be justified in some way. Like OK, this is about to happen and there is no way they are not going to want to know what is up with, or where is Zahra. So therefore, no mater how long she has actually been dead, a reason needs to be put out there as to why she is not around. They need to cover their azz es. Hence the stupid everything that has happened. If no one where intrested in their lives, they could have gone on forever, but, there was something coming up, that demanded the presence of Zahra, so therefore the stupid stuff that followed. The fake ransom, etc., you have to know that LE has this all figured out. We are just waiting.
Click to expand...

But they could have just moved again and lost contact with everyone if they were both involved. That's what I can't figure out. :waitasec:
 
MsBrisbee said:
.....We are just waiting.
Click to expand...

I snipped the rest of your post MsBrisbee, but I wanted to welcome you to WS's and say that your post was wonderful.... I totally agree with everything you said.
 
I also remember articles saying the dogs hit in the backyard, so now we have articles saying both (guess we always did, just missed that or more likely discounted it and buried it).
 
darnudes said:
Valhall has just posted some photos from Zahra's mother showing two adorable photos of Zahra as a baby and a child.

Valhall said: { Oct 28, 2010 - 08:10:14 }

Biomum has allowed me to share two of the most precious pictures of Zahra as a baby. Here she is in 2000 as a bucket full of happy beautiful baby!

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/1...eview-of-yesterdays-activities/#comment-84296
Click to expand...

Read biomums long post underneath it..... She found out Zahra was in the states a week before she was reported missing. Could AB and EB have found that out????
 
SherlockHomey said:
Finally reporting back...

I went out again after work today and took some photos and chatted with a few people. I am very tired so this isn't going to be too detailed and probably a little discombobulated, so I apologize in advance.

Chatted with the CNN engineer for quite awhile.

He has covered numerous crime stories including Natalie Holloway and some others that I cannot remember. He does some work for NG and JVM. Didn't get his name.

He relayed the following to me:

1. Walls were torn out and maybe floors.

2. Fridge thrown in back yard torn apart piece by piece.

3. Furniture torn apart piece by piece.

4. They have been in the crawl space with and without the dog.

5. He also questioned the location of the Monte Carlo car. I asked him his theory on that and he shared with me that he thinks it is at the bottom of the lake with the child in it.

They were bringing A LOT of things from the house in plastic and brown paper bags. In and out, in and out continuously. (See photos) In the photos, I keep an original, then cropped to zoom in on certain things and saved them as a different image. I hope this helps.

Tarp lying in backyard - then three men folded it up, put in bag, sealed and back to crime scene truck. The large paper bags you see the CS guy getting out of his truck with the two SBI agents are the bags they put the tarp into. (See photos)

Just before dusk, the FBI agent picked up two more pieces of something in the mulch at the two last flags in the yard. Put them in plastic bags, took the flags up and took them back to the CS truck. (See photos)

At dusk, you could still see them working in the back bedroom that I presume to be Zahras. Looks as if they are moving things around, using different lights again and definitely taking photos. (See photos)

They took down the crime scene tape where they had the back parking lot taped off. They back yard, of course is still taped up. It looks like they are finished in the backyard and the mulch since the PD took the two pieces of evidence up from the mulch and took the last two flags with him as well.

When I got home this evening, I started going through the photos, looking more closely I saw what looked like blood on the clear plastic wadded up on the front porch. I asked hubby what he thought and he said that's exactly what it looked like to him too but he would think it would not just be sitting on the porch. (See photos)

This was extremely disturbing to me and it hit home like a hammer that this poor sweet innocent child is definitely dead and she did not die a peaceful death by any stretch of the imagination. I feel she died a horrific, disturbing, violent, malicious death by the hands of someone she trusted.

I am spent and extremely emotional at this point and I am not quite sure why it hit me like this today. Maybe because I sense we are almost at an answer and the answer is not going to be nice. I just don't want to hear it. I don't think I want the truth anymore.

I am uploading the photos now. It will take a bit for them to upload. I will post descriptions sometime tomorrow. I am going to curl up with my puppies and call both of my kids to tell them how much I love them.

Good night and I wish everyone peace tonight as we search for an answer for this dear sweet child.
Click to expand...

:hug: and THANK YOU and take the time you need to stay steady.
 
Lera213 said:
Thank you: Inside this link this:
So they wanted the mattress for Zahra's sent to use with the dogs. Now that they have her leg, that has more of a scent then the mattress would if you ask me, because a number of people could have laid on that mattress and leave a scent but that leg has her little sweat and all. Nobody else could wear that leg.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's a peculiar statement for them to have made, that they wanted the mattress and bed rails for scent. Especially if, as we have come to believe, that mattress was not the one Zahra actually slept on, but a replacement. Puzzling...

JMO
 
SherlockHomey said:
Finally reporting back...

I went out again after work today and took some photos and chatted with a few people. I am very tired so this isn't going to be too detailed and probably a little discombobulated, so I apologize in advance.

Chatted with the CNN engineer for quite awhile.

He has covered numerous crime stories including Natalie Holloway and some others that I cannot remember. He does some work for NG and JVM. Didn't get his name.

He relayed the following to me:

1. Walls were torn out and maybe floors.

2. Fridge thrown in back yard torn apart piece by piece.

3. Furniture torn apart piece by piece.

4. They have been in the crawl space with and without the dog.

5. He also questioned the location of the Monte Carlo car. I asked him his theory on that and he shared with me that he thinks it is at the bottom of the lake with the child in it.

They were bringing A LOT of things from the house in plastic and brown paper bags. In and out, in and out continuously. (See photos) In the photos, I keep an original, then cropped to zoom in on certain things and saved them as a different image. I hope this helps.

Tarp lying in backyard - then three men folded it up, put in bag, sealed and back to crime scene truck. The large paper bags you see the CS guy getting out of his truck with the two SBI agents are the bags they put the tarp into. (See photos)

Just before dusk, the FBI agent picked up two more pieces of something in the mulch at the two last flags in the yard. Put them in plastic bags, took the flags up and took them back to the CS truck. (See photos)

At dusk, you could still see them working in the back bedroom that I presume to be Zahras. Looks as if they are moving things around, using different lights again and definitely taking photos. (See photos)

They took down the crime scene tape where they had the back parking lot taped off. They back yard, of course is still taped up. It looks like they are finished in the backyard and the mulch since the PD took the two pieces of evidence up from the mulch and took the last two flags with him as well.

When I got home this evening, I started going through the photos, looking more closely I saw what looked like blood on the clear plastic wadded up on the front porch. I asked hubby what he thought and he said that's exactly what it looked like to him too but he would think it would not just be sitting on the porch. (See photos)

This was extremely disturbing to me and it hit home like a hammer that this poor sweet innocent child is definitely dead and she did not die a peaceful death by any stretch of the imagination. I feel she died a horrific, disturbing, violent, malicious death by the hands of someone she trusted.

I am spent and extremely emotional at this point and I am not quite sure why it hit me like this today. Maybe because I sense we are almost at an answer and the answer is not going to be nice. I just don't want to hear it. I don't think I want the truth anymore.

I am uploading the photos now. It will take a bit for them to upload. I will post descriptions sometime tomorrow. I am going to curl up with my puppies and call both of my kids to tell them how much I love them.

Good night and I wish everyone peace tonight as we search for an answer for this dear sweet child.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all your hard and difficult work for us here at WS. Of course you're exhausted, you are right there in the middle of it all...no real peace and no getting away from it all. We can wait 'till tomorrow for your pics, why not take a break. moo

Hope you have a good sleep and :grouphug: for you and yours. moo
 
MountainChick said:
TY, TY, TY!!! What a beautiful baby Z was!! I really really needed to see her just like that. All of her other pictures, albeit beautiful, have become attached to the case so these were a welcome surprise!! Whatever could have happened in this little angel's life?? IMO these pictures show a very, loved vibrant little girl.
Click to expand...

How adorably cute is she in that bucket surrounded by all those flowers and her huge smile - What a wonderful beautiful child.
 
darnudes said:
Valhall has just posted some photos from Zahra's mother showing two adorable photos of Zahra as a baby and a child.

Valhall said: { Oct 28, 2010 - 08:10:14 }

Biomum has allowed me to share two of the most precious pictures of Zahra as a baby. Here she is in 2000 as a bucket full of happy beautiful baby!

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/1...eview-of-yesterdays-activities/#comment-84296
Click to expand...

She has been smiling all her life. She looked so happy, so well cared for. Oh God, Bless Her!
 
sophclown said:
I wonder if EB drove both vehicles? I know that the Chevy Tahoe was a work vehicle for AB. The Chevy Tahoe is where the blood was found in the center console and 3 swabs of blood where lifted. Was EB allowed to use the company vehicle and I wonder if anyone ever saw EB drive that vehicle? The canine gave a positive alert to both vehicles for the presence of human remains! The canine did not alert to the premises. So, IMO Zahra was taken somewhere else.
Click to expand...

The Tahoe was a work vehicle, if the dogs have picked up on blood in the centre console that could be as trivial as someone has cut their hand working and reaching into the car for a band-aid. My thoughts on the hit on the Tahoe if the hit was just from the centre console is it was probably work related.

Maybe a quick way to tell would be to put the dogs onto all of the work vehicles and see if they hit on all of them for possible traces of human remains.

I think sarx posted something about wishing the dogs could talk. It would certainly be helpful if the dog could decipher the difference for one hit to the next meaning could the dog pinpoint just AB's scent on the Tahoe or Z's or someone elses.

I don't know anything about the dogs and didn't follow the link posted about the dogs, I am just about to scroll back and read about it. But my ignorant question would be, could LE use one cadaver dog to look for only Z's scent and another dog to only hit on AB's or anyone else who could have been in the vehicles?
 
impatientredhead said:
I don't remember the postings but what I do remember was her saying that she hadn't seen since they moved, that she was unaware that they moved before the case blew open. I get the Brittany's confused, but I was wondering the same thing when the locals posted her saying this. Seems like the story has changed, but LE has pretty much said family statements are inconsistent and they are seeking independent sightings?
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IIRC BB was the one that was said she did not even know they had moved. This was the person who took out the charges against EB and AB. IIRC this was one of the first interviews she gave early in the case.

Brittany's Interview

sarx said:
Neighbors had never seen a little girl at that house, neighbors were hanging out with her just 2 days before she was called in as missing..... ugh......
Click to expand...

My posts says: The neighbor told my husband while they were talking yesterday that when she spoke to BS last week she said that she had been with Zahra the Thursday before she went missing - October 9th. Not the neighbors were spending time with Zahra.
 
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